Printable View
Dear Experts
As we all know in case operator calls a wrong offset or starts program without referencing, tool collides with Fixture/Job at Rapid causing huge damage
Was just wondering if there is any crash protection which can be provided (LIke in case of Marposs, we have Gap/Crash controller to chageover to feed from Rapid), which can be incorporated in machines with Fanuc Controllers
Pl revert
hello again, i know this thread is old, but problem is still common in many places; to solve it :
... lower the max admisible servo torque
... permanent axis monitoring
... use system variables in order to tolerate a baseline offset value ( for example, if z offset is not within 5.234±0.15 then stop the machine )
... syncronize the machine cabinet with a pc based software : for example, i can create a file with all tool offsets on the machine, send it to the pc, check 4 collision, then have the go for the program
requires macro, custom software, network
experts are using pc simulation with real dynamics, remote, and real time data colection; kind of a 'close-loop' / kindly :)
Thank you so much for having responded that too in details
Please respond to following
... lower the max admisible servo torque - hopefully i need to look for Fanuc parameter vis a vis controller and lower it , is that right?
... permanent axis monitoring - How to do this please, we can see servo and spindle load on tuning screen but how do we monitor permanently? Pl revert
... use system variables in order to tolerate a baseline offset value ( for example, if z offset is not within 5.234±0.15 then stop the machine ) - can you pl further explain on how to do this?
Regards
I'd like to see kitty explain this one in Fanuc terms....Quote:
- can you pl further explain on how to do this?
hello again rishikesh :)
to spare some time, try to ask about this at your local fanuc dealerQuote:
hopefully i need tolook for Fanuc parameter vis a vis controller and lower it , is that right?
all you need is to implement monitoring inside a program, then start to mess up with the values; to share a few tricks, i need to know how fanuc is implementing monitoring inside the programsQuote:
How to do this please, we can see servo and spindle load on tuning screen but how do we monitor permanently?
recently i was called in a different shop, and i had aligned a setup on a cnc lathe, with fanuc .... in the end, i told them that i need to monitor z axis, in order to prevent future crashes; i did not had time to search all those on my own, so i requested them to put me in conection with a good fanuc programmer ... in the end, corona showed up, and things are in stand-by :)
thus, if i have acces to basic codes, i start to mess them up :)
please, what means pi revert ?Quote:
Pl revert
i need to know fanuc system variables for offsets and wear, and active offsetQuote:
if z offset is not within 5.234±0.15 then stop the machine - can you pl further explain on how to do this?
below is a code that checks if |a|<=b ( otherwise, machine is stopped ), and has to be called with offset or wear system variables
i created it a few years ago, and i have to check a bit, to remember how it works ... however, i need the system variables, that are specific to fanuc / kindly :)
Code:O101
$1
IF[ABS[#2]LE#1]GOTO99
N98M0
GOTO98
N99
M99
hy super, as you can see, i am not very strong on fanuc, by i need to know how fanuc does a few things, in order to replicate some okuma behaviours / kindly :)Quote:
I'd like to see kitty explain this one in Fanuc terms....
Thanks
Hello
Based on post from Kitten, have tried to connect with local Fanuc as well as OEM/MTB Doosan, Makino etc, yet to hear from them regarding monitoring to prevent crash, Local Fanuc asked to contact MTB for this
Just in case someone else in this forum can share on how to monitor to prevent crash, wud be quite handy please
It is a Fanuc paid option and it's called Abnormal Load Detection, or Abnormal Torque Detection. Here is the write up on it. I am surprised Fanuc didn't tell you about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by M.RISHIKESH
hi, if i would have to decide about how great is load-monitor for fanuc, i would 1st ask for a demonstration, then i would start to play with load monitor setting, trying to find that balance that works, and i would look if it is possible to monitor multiple tools ( with different load level ) inside same program
knowledge of special functions requires above average experienceQuote:
I am surprised Fanuc didn't tell you about it
depending on machine brand, there are more or less such functions
on average, each special function is used more or less, thus there are chances that one function is used more in some shops, while other functions may not even be imagined, nor understood by other shops
for okuma machines, the center of development and usage of special functions is japan ... there are many shops in strong relations with the cnc producer
for fanuc, things should be similar, only that it can not spread all its functions across all platforms, because fanuc cnc is used by multiple cnc producers, and this means that fanuc special functions are limited to compatibilty with different cnc brands ... okuma produces it's own hardware and cnc, so conection is better
in other words, special functions knowledge gets dissolved pretty fast, once you start to get away from japan
if someone needs a special function, but he does not know how that is called, it may take a while until someone will figure it out, that that client needs 'x' special function; this means that some shops may not get a quote in time, and simply forget about it ( especially these days, when experienced people are harder to find ) ... also, if you insist, you may need to read the manuals, and their content is translated roughly, because japan-english translation is not accurate
i once discused this situation with our cnc dealer, and he simply replied that few persons have time ( or interest ) to look into this specialites, and small shops are starting to grow in numbers : this means that there is more concuration at this level, and in most cases, many shops will remain at kind of a "primitive" cnc level, without affording to get experienced personal, or to invest in development
load monitor is kind of a frequent used special function, and this means that there are more chances to receive the quote for this function :)
arround here, okuma integrates a few special functions into it's basic package, and customers are instructed to use it
about the file :
... page 1 (1) excluding acceleration/deceleration torque : on okuma machine you can actually monitor also that zone, and even more, you may control acceleation and deceleration peek, in order to avoid stress on the spindle
... page 2 parameter setting : there are no variable setting, and this means that you can only use a single limit per program, while on an okuma machine you may use an infinite number of different limits / program
... page 4 If 0 is set, 200 ms is assumed : 200is fanuc default, 12 is okuma's default
... page 4 When the set value is not a multiple of eight, it is rounded up to the nearest multiple of eight : thus fanuc minimum reaction time is 8ms, while okuma requires 4; these values represent the duration of the samplying cycle
so, fanuc allows :
... Estimated load torque output function
... Abnormal load detection alarm function
okuma's allows those at a more developed level, plus other functions, with increased ease-of-use, and this gives an increased level of confidence for lights-out machining / kindly :)
In regards to the offset base line measurement you could do this at after the tool call and before the g43 tool length settingQuote:
Originally Posted by M.RISHIKESH
#10001 and 11001 are the # numbers for tool length offsets and #13001 and #12001 are for the dia/ radial offsets in this example
the setup person would put tool length into the program or pre-set the height of the tool to the value in the program
the dia./ radius of the tool is set by the programmer as it is what dia./ radius of the tool he/she is using
IF[ABS[#10001+#11001-8.8]GT.1]GOTO998
IF[ABS[#13001+#12001-.0]GT.015]GOTO999
this is the alarm for those tools out of range of length and dia./ radius
N998#3000=1(CHECK TOOL L)
N999#3000=1(CHECK TOOL D)
hy rcs, please, can you explain a bit more how those work ? i don't understand why you use #10001 and 11001, thus 2 variables, for a single offset ?
please excuse me, i am not sure, but don't you mean that those 2 have to be before and after g43 ? kindly :)Quote:
In regards to the offset base line measurement you could do this at after the tool call and before the g43 tool length setting
fanuc controllers have a geometry and a wear offset this is why there are 2 system variables
You need them before the G43 tool length call as on the same line the tool is going to make a Z axis movement to the pc. it makes no sense to check after the crash
you should also have it after the tool call (M6Txx) as a tool offset can be made while the program is running
This keeps the operator from making a large change to the tool geometry and wear offsets during the running of the program
You could put it at the beginning of the program and that is where the check will be done which bring us back to the previous sentence
all this is is a check during the program that will stop the machine if the operator did a offset larger than the check allows.
if a geometry/wear offset exceeded the amount set in the program in the example above #10001+#11001 -8.8 can be no greater than .100 in either direction of 8.800".(8.900-8.700 in length)
this usually slows the crash down to the feed rate of going into the cut (instead of 1200-1400 ipm "G0" the feed is usually in the 50 ipm range here is where you could if the option was purchased (DRDOS mentioned load detection) might be able to stop the crash
hy rcs :)
how many offsets are there ? 30, 100 ?
#10001 and 11001 are system variables for offset 1 and wear 1 ? thus, considereing that there are only 30 inputs, their range is up to #10030 and #11030 ?
same questions for #13001 and #12001 :)
i suppose that you are talking about a millQuote:
M6Txx
so, for example, if i use T10M6, G43 H10, then tool will move on z when executing G43 H10 ?Quote:
You need them before the G43 tool length call as on the same line the tool is going to make a Z axis movement
please, have you used load monitor on fanuc ? kindly :)
there are 100 tool offset #10001-#11000 then #11001-#12000 ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlykitten
the example is for a mill -- most programmer will put on the same line as the g43 Hxx a z axis movement to set the offset
it could be modified to a lathe with the geometry and wear offsets to keep the offsets being made while running the lathe so as not to crash when the offset was to large
on the lathe i would put it before any axis moves
the load monitor that i have used is for an OKUMA osp200 (simple load monitoring it works ok on larger tools I have not used fanucs load monitoring
Thank you so much for sharing the pdf, we shall check after lockdown in our machines and revert
hello rcs :) please, i don't understand how to fit 100 values between 10001 and 11000Quote:
there are 100 tool offset #10001-#11000 then #11001-#12000 ect.
also, is it possible to save the offset values to a file ? is it possible to read that file later ?
hello drdos :) please, have you used those ? is it possible to do this :Quote:
It is a Fanuc paid option and it's called Abnormal Load Detection, or Abnormal Torque Detection. Here is the write up on it. I am surprised Fanuc didn't tell you about it.
... turret @ home position
... index
... rpm, coolant
... approach
... [ monitoring on : z25% x10%]
... cut until z-50 feed=0.12mm/rot
... [ monitoring on : z20% x10% ]
... cut until z-60 feed=0.08mm/rot
... rapid to clearance position
... [ monitoring off ]
... turret at home position
or please, can you provide a code that uses load monitoring ?
also, considering that this is an option, is it possible to check if that option is installed ? kindly :)
HelloQuote:
Originally Posted by drdos
Today we have studied a VMC with FS0iMF
Request to go thro parameters in the machine - which we are able to alter, but we retained parameters as is
Spindle Parameters
4247,4248,4249,4250,4341 all are 0, 4015 = 00000111 - 4015.1 by setting this to 1, abnormal load detection can be enabled
4247 is with respect to spindle motor model (A06B-6220-H022#H600, Motor Model Code 400) - pl let us know on how to get value for parameter 4247
4341 is wrt maximum output torque of Motor
4248 is wrt maximum output torqu of motor & inertia of motor
Request to let us know values of above parameters wrt Motor details
We will maintain parameters 4249 and 4250 as 500
Request for your feedback
Regards
Dear Experts
Further to following post, we have downloaded Spindle Motor Manual 65272EN.pdf
Gone thro details , we could only make out value for parameter 4341 ie Maximum output torque of Motor through formula
Could not make out value for 4247 - Magnetic flux compensation time constant for spindle load torque monitor &
4248 - Maximum output torque of Motor & inertia of Motor
Request your advice for above two parameters, unable to upload Manual due to size
Regards
the CNC controller don't have crash protection feature, it only have features to minimize possible damage to the machine when crash, so operator must careful