Need help with the design of a laser system
Hello Everyone, I have recently taken an interest in a form of artwork called Printmaking, specifically woodblock printmaking. This would be the first CNC build I will do. I thought a laser would be better for the job I need doing (compared to a router). I am hoping to build a laser engraving system which will allow me to save time when creating the wood cut. This essentially means I need a laser CNC machine which will engrave quite detailed complex images (halftones) to a depth of ~1 mm. I would like to be able to engrave fairly large pieces, say up to about 75 x 120 cm. First I would like to communicate with people to come up with a design. I am hoping a £1000 budget for parts is not unrealistic but have not done enough research to know for sure. I will describe a little more about the use of this laser then go on to ask a few questions. Ideally I would like to be able to make a 1 mm engraving into hardwood plywood which is about 3-4 mm thick. I would also like it to be able to burn photos onto the surface of wood. The engraving would hopefully leave few to no burn marks on the surface of the wood.
Firstly is it possible to build a machine of that scale for £1000 ?
What would be a good Wattage for a machine that is designed to do this type of work ?
Is it possible to get the desired no surface burn outcome ?
How long might it take to engrave a detailed halftone image about 75 x 120 cm in size ?
How much might this cost if I were to go and get something like that engraved professionally ? (just a ballpark figure)
Which type of rail system should I use ?
This is probably more than enough questions to get this thread started. Thank you for your help
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
Hello Everyone, I have recently taken an interest in a form of artwork called Printmaking, specifically woodblock printmaking. This would be the first CNC build I will do. I thought a laser would be better for the job I need doing (compared to a router). I am hoping to build a laser engraving system which will allow me to save time when creating the wood cut. This essentially means I need a laser CNC machine which will engrave quite detailed complex images (halftones) to a depth of ~1 mm. I would like to be able to engrave fairly large pieces, say up to about 75 x 120 cm. First I would like to communicate with people to come up with a design. I am hoping a £1000 budget for parts is not unrealistic but have not done enough research to know for sure. I will describe a little more about the use of this laser then go on to ask a few questions. Ideally I would like to be able to make a 1 mm engraving into hardwood plywood which is about 3-4 mm thick. I would also like it to be able to burn photos onto the surface of wood. The engraving would hopefully leave few to no burn marks on the surface of the wood.
Firstly is it possible to build a machine of that scale for £1000 ?
What would be a good Wattage for a machine that is designed to do this type of work ?
Is it possible to get the desired no surface burn outcome ?
How long might it take to engrave a detailed halftone image about 75 x 120 cm in size ?
How much might this cost if I were to go and get something like that engraved professionally ? (just a ballpark figure)
Which type of rail system should I use ?
This is probably more than enough questions to get this thread started. Thank you for your help
A laser does not remove wood material it chars or burns it. You need to do a LOT more online searching and I hope you have the mechanical and electrical skills to build what you really need, a CNC router. Never built anything in your life, better off buying one.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
I know how lasers work and how CNC machines work, I understand that lasers burn wood in order to engrave I was just wondering if the burn mark would only be visible inside the engraving i.e. the part at ~1 mm below the surface. I understand the mechanical parts reasonably well. The electrical I'm not yet up to speed. I have been looking at other builds online but there seems to be a lot less information about laser machines as opposed to routers. I would buy one if I could afford to but I don't have enough money to buy myself a machine capable of work that size
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Cannot be done at your needs/desires/budget.
A very basic laser can be done and will indeed engrave wood fine, for sub 1000 £.
But it wont be commercial quality, and will be too slow for commercial work.
70x100 cm is huge ... for any detailed stuff.
So a commercial engraver might take 0.5-2-10 hours, and a sub 1000€ about 10-20x longer.
A large laser engraver needs
1. very high acceleration/decel (time),
2. very good repeatability (quality of result),
3. very good linearity (artifacts, distortions) overall.
Measure surface area of current cheap machines.
About 20x30 cm.
See time to do a detailed print - perhaps 30 mins.
Compare to your desires, about 10x larger.
300 min.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hanermo
Cannot be done at your needs/desires/budget.
A very basic laser can be done and will indeed engrave wood fine, for sub 1000 £.
But it wont be commercial quality, and will be too slow for commercial work.
70x100 cm is huge ... for any detailed stuff.
So a commercial engraver might take 0.5-2-10 hours, and a sub 1000€ about 10-20x longer.
A large laser engraver needs
1. very high acceleration/decel (time),
2. very good repeatability (quality of result),
3. very good linearity (artifacts, distortions) overall.
Measure surface area of current cheap machines.
About 20x30 cm.
See time to do a detailed print - perhaps 30 mins.
Compare to your desires, about 10x larger.
300 min.
Time is not too much of a concern of mine, I dont mind if it takes 300 minutes. I wont be using it very often so it doesn't need to be up to commercial standards. What kind of a budget would be more realistic for this?
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
So it has to engrave and it needs to be a CNC router as a laser is not feasible. Area 120 x 75 cm or 48 x 30 inches, figure about $4000 USD check with China sources to get idea of cost. You have never built a CNC before so add on another $1000 USD.
Yes I have owned and operated a CNC router, revamped a milling machine to CNC, owned a CNC plasma cutter and have been using lasers for the past 3 years. Would I attempt that size project, no.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wmgeorge
So it has to engrave and it needs to be a CNC router as a laser is not feasible. Area 120 x 75 cm or 48 x 30 inches, figure about $4000 USD check with China sources to get idea of cost. You have never built a CNC before so add on another $1000 USD.
Yes I have owned and operated a CNC router, revamped a milling machine to CNC, owned a CNC plasma cutter and have been using lasers for the past 3 years. Would I attempt that size project, no.
I could start off building a smaller machine so there is room for adjustment in the plan. I first thought a laser would be preferential to a router due to the level of detail required. A router would also require a much more sturdy frame. Can you explain why exactly a laser is not suitable for this idea? I have seen videos of people carrying out similar tasks using a laser
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
Firstly is it possible to build a machine of that scale for £1000 ?
Make it double for machine only + laser
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
What would be a good Wattage for a machine that is designed to do this type of work ?
100-150W RF laser is minimum. Laser is not best solution for deep engraving hardwood. May work but you need expensive RF laser and advanced software for 3d engraving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
Is it possible to get the desired no surface burn outcome ?
No, some brown will allways remain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
How long might it take to engrave a detailed halftone image about 75 x 120 cm in size ?
An hour? Or 5 hours. Depends
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
Which type of rail system should I use ?
Good
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
I quick look at this and run simulation of engraving in RDWorks. It is working on popular Ruida controllers (price tag £ 300 on controller alone). For picture with low resolution you can expect time ~6 hours. Maybe you can say "OK, no problem". But there is a problem. Not with your patience, but with cooling laser in that time. Effective and stable. "Ready to go" CW5000 or CW5200 chillers are £500. Next, if you are running business in UK you have to stick to government regulations and do NOT create emissions. Filtering system - can't say exactly (depend of material, chimney system etc), but definitely higher than two mentioned earlier. You need a bigger budget. I don't want to break you down, idea itself is great - but this is a way more obstacles then you expect now. Some other was mentioned, maybe will be more of them. Anyway GL :)
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
So if all you are trying to do is engrave look into 2w laser diode. Get an open source controller using grbl. Belt drive a set of low cost XY slides. I think it's possible to do this but don't forget that you need a way to exhaust smoke.
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Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dean448
So if all you are trying to do is engrave look into 2w laser diode. Get an open source controller using grbl. Belt drive a set of low cost XY slides. I think it's possible to do this but don't forget that you need a way to exhaust smoke.
Sure. Engraving will take 300 hours.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cinematic2
Sure. Engraving will take 300 hours.
Ditto or longer, I had a 4 watt laser just for fun.... it took forever just on a 100 mm square picture.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Ok since building a laser/router for my budget is unrealistic, what do you all think would be the best most cost effective way of getting the job done? If I was to get the job done professionaly either by router or laser which do you think would be the best option? Would a job of that size (detailed halftone image of 70 x 120 cm) cost well into the hundreds?
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Read the answers already posted.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Can be pricey - due work time and potential risk of fail on big piece of material. Imagine you have this size piece of quality wood, and after five and half hours of work something fails. It is not 20x30cm piece, but way bigger. And labor and lost material risk is combine. Many companies charge $60-70 per hour of work. If risk is high - probably it can be multiplied by "risk factor". But this is only my point of view.
Re: Need help with the design of a laser system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jagsdd
Ok since building a laser/router for my budget is unrealistic, what do you all think would be the best most cost effective way of getting the job done? If I was to get the job done professionaly either by router or laser which do you think would be the best option? Would a job of that size (detailed halftone image of 70 x 120 cm) cost well into the hundreds?
Jagsdd, you are waisting time. No money, no machine.
Just start looking to increase your budget.
