Rotary axis I/O

Hello all,

I fortunately acquired a Troyke DL-12-B with a Kollmorgen Goldline XT motor in it this summer.
Have spent a few evenings refurbishing it. Rust removal, paint and rewiring (the cables were cut).

I have followed the schemes for the machine and the inputs seem to work okay;

Input Name
43 PR_A_CLMP
44 PR_A_UNCL
45 LS_A_TPA

However i get an error when powering the machine up "6 second time-out", and the remedy is this;

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...5c&oe=61C254AF

In ProgramWare I/O-display, I can see that the input 48 CR_A_READY is off and the output 18 CR_A_ENBL is off, and 19 SL_A_UNCL is off and does not correspond to changes on inputs 43/44.

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...2d&oe=61C4E3CC

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...f2&oe=61C2CBC7


One other observation is that the servo drive (BDS4) is throwing an overspeed alarm - could this be what is prohibiting 'CR_A_READY' perhaps...

Any directions or cheering along the way is appreciated :)

To share some light over the wiring done;
Since the BDS4 'overspeed' state is caused by... overspeed, OR intermittent/wrong wiring, there might be that my wiring is shoddy or wrong.

This is the encoder;

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...22&oe=61C48CD4

And this is my scheme;

https://scontent.fsvg1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...f7&oe=61C3F5DC

I've connected as follows;

Encoder - Terminal R52 (in machine)

Output A to A (Sin Hi)
Output A' to B (Sin Lo)
Output B' to C (Cos Lo)
Output B to D (Cos Hi)
Index Z' to E (Ref Lo)
Index Z to F (Ref Hi)
Shield to Shield

Not sure if this makes sense.

Larspeed, I need the 'machine serial number', 'control diagrams', and 'Year of Manufacture' below the serial plate on the back plate of the machine.
The BDS4 drive does NOT use an encoder; but a Sin/Cos resolver.
The Cincinnati BDS4 drive has an internal Resolver to 5V-TTL Encoder converter board that outputs to the Acramatic A2100 control.
Monday DEC-13 I can try to get you one sheet of the print for you; if you get me the information that I need.
Fives-MSI Cincinnati sells the sets of Control Diagrams for $200 USD.

Gwood! Thank you for enlightening me.

Here are the machine numbers;

Machine serial
7043-A00-RD-0557

Controller serial
51-A21001Y-1218

Year of manufacture
1996

I have the drawings for the machine, so attached is the scheme of the 4th axis/machine interface.

So I understand that I now should be on the lookout for a suitable resolver to replace the optical encoder that came with the motor?
Found it strange that the encoder was to be supplied 5-15vdc, but that is nowhere stated in the scheme.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by larspeed

Gwood! Thank you for enlightening me.

Here are the machine numbers;

Machine serial
7043-A00-RD-0557

Controller serial
51-A21001Y-1218

Year of manufacture
1996

I have the drawings for the machine, so attached is the scheme of the 4th axis/machine interface.

So I understand that I now should be on the lookout for a suitable resolver to replace the optical encoder that came with the motor?
Found it strange that the encoder was to be supplied 5-15vdc, but that is nowhere stated in the scheme.

---

It looks like you have the standard resolver feedback from the motor to the axis drive. The axis drive converts the resolver input to a TTL encoder output that goes to the CNC control ( if you have the correct converter board in the axis drive). The A2100 only accepts encoders for position feedback (to my knowledge). As long as you are not getting A -AXIS OPEN LOOP faults you may be OK in this respect. You can not just replace the resolver with an encoder if the axis drive is setup for a resolver, it would not work. You also can not remove the resolver or turn it ( due to timing issues ). You should look at the drive outputs and the way you wired it up. I would suggest that you have an indexing A axis that may require the thing be unclamped before the axis drive is energized.

MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

Hi meckardt55!

It's the other way around in my case; the servomotor has an encoder installed, so I must get hold of a suitable resolver to replace the encoder.
Any info on which one to choose (brand, spec) appreciated.

I understand the resolver must be aligned with the motor windings and I have the procedure to do so - and a scope, ofcourse.

Had a look at the y-axis resolver, and it seems that I need to source the following;

Harowe Harosyn-rcx 21BRCX-510-L12/2

Not the cheapest thing on ebay, though...

Are there any alternatives worth checking out?

It's been a while now, but happy to tell that I've sourced a suitable resolver. It is the following;

Tamagawa BRX Smartsyn model TS2640N321E64

The positioning feedback seems to be working fine, but on power-up i get a foldback error, stating too high current is drawn.

I've measured 3.8 ohms between the windings ab, ac and bc.
Does that sound right to anyone?

Did you measure each leg to ground, should be open. Are you sure the IGBT transistors are good? Disconnect the 3 motor wires and turn it on and see if you get the same fault with no load connected. If you do then the transistors may be shorted and need to be replaced.

MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

Hi meckardt55!

I think I did, but worth checking again. The cable I made is OK too with regards to possible shorting in the plugs.
I did not get this alarm before, when an encoder was wired in the system and not the new resolver. But there might be that the drive will not power up if it has no feedback from the resolver - as a safety feature perhaps.

I'll check the IGBT module, then. Thank you!

Allright - tested IGBT to be steady 0.425volts over diodes, connection from drive to servo OK and legs to ground on the motor are open. All good.

Powered up the machine and get the same foldback alarm from yesterday - but having a look at the drive, it shows no indication on foldback LED.
So I go about, acknowledging the foldback alarm and are allowed to proceed with TPA positioning.

Just as Y-axis hits its switch, I observe a faint high pitched frequency sound from the A-servo, and then these messages appear;

#1
A Axis Servo Fail
Cause: The A axis following error has exceeded the configured servo fail limit (6)

Remedy: Verify axis gains and drive connections. Reduce the speed of the axis move.


#2
A Axis Excess Error
Cause: The A axis following error (5.0309) has exceeded the configured excess error limit (5)

Remedy: Verify axis gains and drive connections. Reduce the speed of the axis move.


Does this mean that I'm only parameters away from getting this chunk to work?!

Did the a axis un-clamp? Do you have the gain and servo setup parameters for the A axis? Did the axis move at all?

MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meckardt55

Did the a axis un-clamp? Do you have the gain and servo setup parameters for the A axis? Did the axis move at all?

MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

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I am running the servo bare without the rotary table, so am manipulating un-clamp signal to get to positioning sequence.
It is to test if the motor operates ok before I mount it back on the rotary table.

Motor moves just a bit before fault alarms appear.
If i turn the motor by hand, the axis degree digits on display is responding.

I do not have the gain or setup parametere, and I cannot seem to find a place to put that info.

I reckon it should be in Axis or Servo settings.

I am wondering if there should be a controlled air valve somewhere on the machine, for clamping/unclamping the table.
Is this normally provided with these Machines or do I have to get one and assign/wire it to a corresponding unclamping relay?

Allright - air supply sorted, unclamp/clamp toggle at initiation of axis alignment is successful. It was all there, Just needed to add an air coupling in the air block up by the terminals for the axis.

I am now only (well, hopefully...) missing the parameteres for the axis.
However, as my motor is kind of a Frankenstein one, this could be an adventure.

The motor has no label on it, due to corrosion during a hard life with little or no maintenance but i've figured it has got to be a

Kollmorgen Goldline XT
Model MT502B1-F3B1

It was originally equipped with an encoder, but I've changed this with a resolver

Tamagawa BRX Smartsyn
Model TS2640N321E64

When the motor starts to align, it spins a couple of rounds until I get the messages

#1
Exceeded configured servo fail limit.
Verify axis gains and drive connections.
Reduce the speed of the axis move.

#2
Exceeded configured error limit (10).
Verify axis gains and drive connections.
Reduce the speed of the axis move.


Where should I go from here?

Done some more fiddling;

Display shows 1.3 degrees per motor revolution, so the resolver seem to work. The ratio might be off, though.

Some acquired motor spec;

Kb = 42.0 V/KRPM
Max speed = 3000 rpm
Freq = 220Hz
Stall cont = 4.73 amps(rms)
Stall peak = 20.4 amps(rms)
Volts = 230 RATED(rms) L/L

These numbers must be converted to suit somewhere in the tabs Servo Axis Data, Servo Gearing, Axes Axis Data and/or Axis Rates.
I really don't want to put in any erratic parameters that eventually will cause damage to the drive, so please give me a shout if there are some obvious errors in the attached setup pictures.

Regards

Right... progress! I managed to set the axis modulus correct.

My Troyke DL-12-D is 120:1 ratio, and adding the pulley ratio I end up with 1 rpm on servo shaft equals 2.01deg on the table/display.

Also I've managed to synchronize resolver / motor windings by following BDS4 service manual;
- shorting the two upper jumper pins by connector C1
- jump enable to get the rotor to stall in position
- twist resolver stator until FOLDBACK-lamp is <steady
- secure stator
- the end

I've set the Drive Sensitivity to 23.8V/rpm - calculated from motor info. Other than that I'm just increasing and decreasing the other parameters with no luck so far.
The motor judders and I get the same alarm as earlier.

New year, new possibilities :idea:

It's clear that I don't need the 4th axis too often, luckily - due to the amount of digging into this bugger. But it would be nice to know that I have a working one if needed in the future.. :D

I understand that FIVES is the go-to when looking for gain and servo setup parameters for this Troyke/Kollmorgen package? They don't answer requests too often though.

Perhaps someone with a similar Troyke rotary on here could post or PM pictures of their settings - much appreciated, to say the least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larspeed

New year, new possibilities :idea:

It's clear that I don't need the 4th axis too often, luckily - due to the amount of digging into this bugger. But it would be nice to know that I have a working one if needed in the future.. :D

I understand that FIVES is the go-to when looking for gain and servo setup parameters for this Troyke/Kollmorgen package? They don't answer requests too often though.

Perhaps someone with a similar Troyke rotary on here could post or PM pictures of their settings - much appreciated, to say the least.

---

I received this Rotary Table setup doc from Fives today. As it turns out, they are much more motivated to help you if you'll be buying something.

I'm also trying to get my Troyke/Cincinnati DL-9-B A axis table working. The doc doesn't include my specific model but I use config #3, the Troyke DL-6. It moves fine, but it can't seem to make it through an align process without a problem. I think I'll need to disassemble the sensors harness, as it is a little worn...
It unclamps and jogs, though I do need to adjust the gain to 9.75V (not sure where to monitor or measure the BDS4 gain voltage). Indeed, it unclamps and moves, but it is missing -PR_A-CLMP or +PR_A_UNCL. Before this error, I had an issue wut the A axis TPA during homing.
So I may have a poor connection somewhere, causing intermittent missing signals for A_TPA and the unclamp signal/s.

I failed to upload the document mentioned in my last post. This is an A axis setup doc from Fives (they didn't charge for it so I suppose they'll be OK with me sharing).

Thanks a lot, tannerbean - this is much appreciated!