PCNC 1100 vs PCNC 770 (Is the 1100 worth it)

Hi,

I search the threads figuring this had been talked about before but couldn't find anything, so don't yell at me! hahaha.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Tormach. But I can't decide on which one. But the only differences I've seen with the 1100 vs 770 I've found are:

1100 workarea: 18” x 9.5” x 16.25”
770 workarea: 14” x 7.5” x 13.25”

1100 motor: 1.5 hp
770 motor: 1.0 hp

1100 speeds: 110 IPM (X, Y) 90 IPM (Z)
770 speeds: 135 IPM (X, Y) 110 IPM (Z)

1100 electric: 200-250 VAC, single phase
770 electric: 115 VAC, single phase

1100: v belt
770: poly v belt

1100 rpm: 5140
770 rpm: 10000

So far it seems that you get a greater working area with the 1100 and a stronger motor with possibly more torque. But with the 770 you get slightly faster rapids, will run on 110v, a faster spindle which might be good for lighter work, and a poly v belt (no idea if that's an improvement).

As far as my situation goes:

• would like the ability to do hard materials but don't mind doing lighter faster passes (not at the cost of accuracy though)
• don't want to out grow the machine anytime soon
• the parts I will primarily be making with be brackets, motorcycle parts, knives and prototypes of various machine parts
• I don't mind running a 220v outlet but the versatility of 110v is kind of appealing
• more work area is always nice but does anybody use the extra area of the pcnc 1100
• it seems that all the accessories are interchangeable or have comparable counter parts
• shop space is kind of a premium but I can work around it.
• I plan on getting the "Rapid Turn" lathe attachment eventually. Seems like the 1100 would have greater working area with it but not sure if its a game changer.

All in all it would be nice to hear from somebody who has worked with both and which one they would make their forever machine.

Yes, the RapidTurn is rather tight on my 770. However, with the 1100 you have to reprogram the VFD to change from mill mode to RapidTurn mode. This is not required on the 770.

Poly-V is quieter than the link belt on the 1100 (at least that is my understanding)

Higher spindle speed is great if you use small cutters. You could get the high speed spindle for the 1100 but changeover is a pain.

A larger work envelope is always good to do large parts or to run multiples for production.

Just a few thoughts...

hmmm... that's good to know about re-programming the VFD.

Why is it the VFD has to be reprogrammed and is that everytime you switch out? Also, what do you think the smallest cutter on the pcnc 1100 should be? And whats the max length you are able to work with on the 770 with the Rapid Turn setup?

If you have to ask the question, you've answered it.

NEVER, ever, buy a smaller lighter machine than you can afford. The only significant advantage of the 770 is the higher spindle speed, and that's easily fixed.

You will use the extra workspace. If you don't have it, and could have, you will forever regret not getting it. This is one of the immutable laws of the shop. "Nobody ever regrets more horsepower or travel."

Full disclosure- I've got an 1100, and the 770 wasn't available when I bought. I'd have been incredibly tempted by the 770...and at least once a quarter, there's a part I couldn't have run on it.

The 1100 has a 1.5hp motor and the RapidTurn has a 1hp motor (the same as the 770) so no changes are required when switching between the 770 and RapidTurn. I have added a switch so that both motors can be cabled at the same time and I can easily switch between them. I believe that I posted some photos here.

The maximum length depends on where you position the RapidTurn (fully on the table or off the left end of the table). I need to do some measurements to accurately answer your question. Realistically only rather short work can be turned without a tailstock regardless of the maximum length that can be mounted..

I was considering rapidturn but was concerned on the "change over" procedure. Tormach did say that some cabling needed changed each time (as I understood). I assumed based on the video that it was a quick easy change, kind of like changing a tool. Seems like that's not the case.

Also I have a SuperSpacer 4th axis mounted on my 770 on the left side ( a space saving change) so I passed on the RapidTurn.

One thing to consider, looking into the future, is the possible need for a lathe.

I was considering an 1100 but purchased a 770 (saved some cash). Very very happy. I'm a small parts guy so it's great and the footprint is good for my space. I purchased a 15L lathe last month and love it's small footprint also.

Also "Nobody every regrets having too many tools"

Likes on 770:
Small tool diameter using high speed spindle.
Torque when in low speed belt position.
110V (convenient) even thought I have several 220 outlets.
Saved some money (no auto tool changer) but the "power drawbar" is a must at a minimum. Takes only seconds to change. Changer would be great for unattended ops.
Fogbuster is great. Tried flood then moved to Fog. Never going back if at all possible.

Attachment 334140

I've been thinking about picking up another machine, in addition to my 1100, and I've thought about the 770, it wasn't around when I got my 1100 either, but I can't justify the smaller machine. I have some parts I make that I could pull off on the 770, but I really don't even want it as a second, as a primary/only mill, I certainly would be screwed by the smaller envelope. I use 1/32in em's all the time, cutting and engraving are fine at 5k . I'd recommend the 1100 for sure.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

To get more table room get a plate. I just got a 6061T651 1" plate and drilled and slotted. This allowed me to move the 4th axis to a series of holes on the left end. The X travel ends just about in the Chuck. If I need to move it I have another set of holes. Also slots for my vise.

Guess you could put a longer table and put the rapid turn on the left and the 4th on the right. I don't know how the wiring would be but it scared me out.

This plate is 12x36. Plenty of room all around.

If there is enough room and finances I would agree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grimms3

I was considering rapidturn but was concerned on the "change over" procedure. Tormach did say that some cabling needed changed each time (as I understood). I assumed based on the video that it was a quick easy change, kind of like changing a tool. Seems like that's not the case.

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You probably first need to mount the tool holder to the spindle. If you do things the Tormach way, you unscrew a semi-watertight connector from the mill motor and connect the same sort of connector from the RapidTurn. On a 1100 you have to power cycle the VFD to reprogram (not required on a 770). I added a switch so that both the mill motor and RapidTurn motor are always connected to the VFD via a switch.You need to restart PP in lathe mode, home things and you're ready to go.

I own both, I use both and I love them both. You will be amazed at how easy it is to use all your available envelope with the 1100 LOL. It does take up a significantly larger footprint, but it is more rigid in my experience. I am pretty much running the 770 for 3D work in Ti and various stainless steels. My 1100 runs larger stainless jobs, 4th axis work and steel alloys. If you were going to be machining smaller aluminum parts with intricate 3D surfacing the 770 is hard to beat! Chuck a 1/4" carbide ball end mill in the spindle and it is a treat to watch it take care of business. If you are going to be working with tool steel, parts with any dimension greater than 10" or that have a lot of holes >1/4" in diameter suitable for a twist drill than go for an 1100.

As far as 4th axis goes I can say that I am not impressed with the 6" RT (even with the upgraded stepper) as compared to the standard 8" RT. If I'm not extremely conservative with the feed I'll occasionally stall the 6" on my 770 and lose steps. The same part produced on the 1100 with the 8" will get the same job done without flaw. Both machines have been outstanding values for me.

I agree with pickled that drilling larger holes on the 770 in high speed range is definitely a problem. There simply isn't enough torque at low rpm in high range to avoid stalling at reasonable feed rates and deep holes. And changing pulley positions in the middle of a job is a pain!

More cast iron gives more rigidity - and if you are machining steel, that really counts. Hell the 1100 is already light enough for the steel work I do. I wish they made a 1440.

Keen

It's funny you said that, I said the same thing, I wish there was a 2200 haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keen

More cast iron gives more rigidity - and if you are machining steel, that really counts. Hell the 1100 is already light enough for the steel work I do. I wish they made a 1440.

Keen

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I had the same questions when I bought my machine 5 years ago ant I ended up with the Series II 1100 and I have not regretted my choice even for an instant.

Would I like a faster spindle? Sure, who wouldn't?

I can do anything on my 1100 that you can do on a Haas or any of those other high dollar machines, it just takes a little longer. And ya know what's really cool about my 1100 over all those other machines? My Tormach didn't cost $75,000.00.

I don't have the ATC, but with the machine, delux stand, 8 inch 4th axis and the full enclosure and a butt load of tool holders and I still have less than $20,000.00 invested.

As others have mentioned, you will enjoy using these tools a great deal even to the point of obsession over their care and and use. Couple quick things to consider are the need for decent back office equipment including computer system, cad and cam software. Also over time the need to collect the very large list of decent quality measurement tools of different types to aid in setups and checking results and of course all the fixture tools like different types of parallels, 123 blocks, soft jaws, collet sets ....... the list gets huge of shiny precision things that add to the overall cost :).
The fun begins with many years of enjoyment ahead!

the obvious answer is get one (or more?) of each...
they both have their pros and cons... having one (or more?) of each would completely negate the cons...
maybe throw in a 440 too... not sure why, don't think it does anything the 770 can't do but hey why not go for one (or more?) of each mill they have?
maybe throw in the lathe too, you just can't go wrong with a lathe...

maybe Tormach will give you a bulk discount?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost

the obvious answer is get one (or more?) of each...
they both have their pros and cons... having one (or more?) of each would completely negate the cons...
maybe throw in a 440 too... not sure why, don't think it does anything the 770 can't do but hey why not go for one (or more?) of each mill they have?
maybe throw in the lathe too, you just can't go wrong with a lathe...

maybe Tormach will give you a bulk discount?

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Hahaha. I wish. I'm already dipping pretty hard into the ole savings :)

Heheh. Choosing between the 1100 and 770 has been an emotional rollercoaster. Thank you all for your help! This is where I'm at now:

PCNC 1100

pros:

1. increased work area
2. more rigidity
3. ability to create holes and tap much more easily
4. more aggressive passes on harder materials.
5. being able to hog out more material

cons:

1. no high speed spindle option without accesories and/or setup changes
2. with these upgrades you lose the ATC option
3. more expensive
4. Rapid turn also takes additional setting up
5. 220v (but not a huge issue)

PCNC 770

pros:

1. smaller footprint
2. higher speed for smaller end mills
3. automatic tool change for all end mills
4. cheaper
5. 110v (could be nice incase I move to a place without 220v)

cons:

1. less rigid
2. smaller work area
3. limited area with 4th axis or Rapid Turn (but I've seen people use table extensions)
4. stalling on holes and tapping
5. not as good at harder material

Its a real bummer about not being able to do automatic tool changes with the 1100 high speed options. But maybe they will put out an upgrade sometime to make it all possible. I'm wondering why they haven't done that. Could be an incentive to buy both machines :)

As it stands now I'm probably going with the 1100. If its true that it can use smaller end mills at lower feed rates, I think that beats trying to use larger end mills at shallow cuts which I heard affects/increases the hardness of the material you are cutting. And if I'm going for accuracy then I should probably get the machine with the least deflection. Maybe I'll get the 770 too one day. At least it won't pain me as much after the financial bath I'm about to take on the 1100 :D

Thanks again for all your help. Let me know if there are any objections to my line of thinking!