tormach 1100 series 3 mill. i dead in the water ;( its making all kinds of noises trying to move my x axis like its stuck and frees up and gets stuck again. anybody have an x-axis motor for sale? or is there another place i can get one local?
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tormach 1100 series 3 mill. i dead in the water ;( its making all kinds of noises trying to move my x axis like its stuck and frees up and gets stuck again. anybody have an x-axis motor for sale? or is there another place i can get one local?
How do you know it‘s the motor?Quote:
Originally Posted by cncbuilt
i removed it from the ball screw and its doing the same thing. i also swapped the stepper drivers same behavior.
maybe a short in the conduit leading to the X motor, its a common problem for that one to break, may be worth checking out.
I had a similar problem, it turned out to be the driver connector burned up and it was intermittent.
it actually turned out to be a bad driver. i did switch drivers at the beginning but i only switched the ribbon duh ;( i should have switched that bottom green connector too. i wired in a new driver and things are smooth again.
I get in trouble all the time by having a favorite culprit; it is very, very hard to actually do a clean divide the problem in half and check each half in a truly objective way. Had a colleague who was being driven mad by a bad (intermittent) Sherline rotary table. He changed out motor and drive both before realizing he had 3 parts (motor, drive, cable) to check. It was the cable, naturally. And post hoc, who wouldn't say -well, intermittent, obviously the cable connector?Quote:
Originally Posted by cncbuilt
The only thing that seems to help me is to make a list of the components on paper. And then check them off. That forces me to actually look at, rather than just glide over, pieces. My rule is that a component is anything that can be physically isolated from everything else- which means that things like power cords that plug in are components. Connectors and cables are two components if they disconnect (eg, screw terminals), one component is contacts are soldered/swaged. It ain't perfect, but it helps.
I was curious about this so I watched a few videos about the Tormach 1100, specifically what it uses on the electronics side. It looks like Leadshine MA860H drivers, and nema 34's? They painted the stepper motors? And the Z axis has a brake? No counterbalance on the Z?
The big thing I was wondering is if the electronics box was isolated from the mill. I have a small mill from busy bee tools where the vibration of the machine did some damage to the electronics box. Not the same category of machine but I wonder if vibration could have played a part in the driver being damaged?
It looks like the "servo upgrade" uses Clearpath SD motors, so it does not require additional servo drivers to run them, just the step and dir signals from the main board. The Z brake is a separate stage on this upgrade, I wonder if Tormach makes them or if it's an off the shelf part?
IMO, if you ever needed to replace an X or Y stepper, it probably wouldn't be too hard to find a part number for it, then you could order a replacement direct from the factory that makes it. I'm guessing it's a Leadshine or Long's Motor....something like that. It just wouldn't have the same fitting on it, but they went away from that with the Clearpath upgrade anyway and just use some dielectric grease on the connectors now.
A stepper replacement from Tormach costs $329.75 USD, and I assume shipping is on top of that.
https://tormach.com/xy-axis-motor-pc...s-3-32001.html
But a comparable, or even identical from the same manufacturer (except for the fitting), stepper might cost you $125 including shipping from EBay or Aliexpress.
I hope you plugged back in the original driver to make sure it wasn't terminal fretting or pin fitment. Glad to hear you got in worked out. You have to check on them poeple from NH time to time:)Quote:
Originally Posted by cncbuilt
Thinking about this, and maybe getting a spare to keep on hand, does anyone have a link for a direct stepper replacement for the Series III? And the Leadshine drives for that matter?
Obviously from someone other than Tormach I mean, as a post above suggests they are considerably cheaper.
I have no idea what the actual specs are, and don't want to break anything down just to check this, so if someone has a lead - post away!
From what I've found in the process of building my 4th axis, the leadshine drive is available but the low voltage input connector is a screw terminal type rather than a ribbon cable like on the tormach units. There doesn't appear to be a specific part number difference that would point to one version over the other so my guess is Tormach commissioned the special version for their machines but I have no direct evidence of that. In my case I bought the necessary adapters to convert the ribbon connector to pigtail leads that I could then screw into the driver while maintaining the original wiring in case I ever end up with the Tormach variant of the driver.
As for the steppers themselves, I've done quite a bit of searching and haven't found anything that matches the specs that tormach lists for their motors. I believe the steppers are IP rated rather than the standard stuff you find on amazon or ebay which would explain both the wiring fittings and conduit as well as the extra length they seem to have over other, similarly spec'd motors.
What specs do they list for their stepper motors? The only spec I see in the Tormach link I posted earlier is shipping weight 5 lbs. How long are they? If you can find a holding torque, inductance, length, and weight, you can match it. But it doesn't really matter. A replacement doesn't have to be identical. Just pick something of the same body length, an inductance of around 2mH, and a max amps of around 6. It's just a 4 wire Nema 34.Quote:
Originally Posted by soofle616
I'm guessing these would do fine as a replacement for X or Y:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...708443864.html
Yes with the conduit connector and the paint job clearly they were going for an IP rating....I am wondering did they just decide to paint the stepper motors or did they buy them like that? LOL. I mean, is it the same paint as the machine? Just paint it over and call it good? LOL, I don't know, seems like a pretty good colour match in the video I watched.
The motors have covers on them, and with the clearpath upgrade it doesn't have the conduit. Personally, I don't think it's going to matter.
The Leadshine MA860H drives are easy to find on EBay or from the Leadshine website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neill
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leadshine-M.../122584602459?
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But here's another thing to consider....if you were to say that you want some spare parts, a genuine Tormach branded stepper and spare driver lets say.....it would cost less money to buy a Clearpath SD size 34 servo for that axis.
https://www.teknic.com/products/clea...d/sdsk-models/
I think it's time to intervene before someone throws some good money away.
Tormach has used several driver types over the years. Series 1 and 2 used 2-Phase stepper motors but the series 3 and M use 3-Phase stepper motors. The Leadshine MA860H is a 2-Phase driver and is not compatible with series 3 machines. Obviously if anyone should need a replacement motor this must also be replaced by the correct type. Simply guessing when odering will quite likely leave you guessing when you try to connect the motor with the drive (the 2-Phase drives have 4 wires but the 3-Phase drives have only 3!).
Yes, these drives can be purchased on Alibaba for much less but you take the risk that you may not receive a genuine part. Having said that, Tormach should actually be embarrassed by their prices for replacement parts. Some are almost 3x the price I paid for them just 2 years ago!
My advice is either to grit your teeth and buy from Tormach or to take advice from someone who has at least seen a Tormach machine.
Step
Well I've seen it in videos, haha :stickpokeQuote:
Originally Posted by TurboStep
This was the video I watched:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbMqXPVhAZQ
And at 3:21 he pulls out the drives. There's wires in the way and he moves so fast it's hard to read anything on the drives until you get to the last drive. So I looked at it again after your post.
The X, Y, Z axis drives look to be Leadshine 3ND883, while only the 4th axis drive that gets left in there and is easy to read is the Leadshine MA860H. They didn't use the same drives:eek: Definitely 3 wires on the X, Y, Z motors, red, yellow, and green.
IMO, if you need to replace a drive, you have the machine, you can read the number on it, I can't see a problem ordering it from Leadshine. I haven't heard of any Leadshine products being counterfitted, but I have heard of similar products where they remove the name Leadshine and change the part number by one digit. So if it says Leadshine on it, you're probably fine, but that's just my opinion. Of course, Tormach probably did something to mess with these drives that I don't know about, LOL.
In Mach 3 and similar, you can easily change the steps per distance settings but with the Path Pilot controller, do you have any ability to change these settings? If not, yeah, you'd be totally screwed if you replaced a 3 phase driver and motor (1.2 deg / step) with a more common motor and driver (1.8 deg / step).
But not owning one of these machines, I will gracefully exit the conversation......there really should be an emoji for trying to run away......
Not to sidetrack things too much but what is the advantage of the 3 phase vs 2 and is there any point at all in replacing the 4th axis motor with a 3 phase.Would you get any more speed out of it. Thanks
Good question :) Compared to the previous 2-phase system on my 1100 the 3-phase upgrade significantly reduced noise/vibration, improved microstepping linearity and allowed the speed to be increased. In my opinion this was a significant upgrade.Quote:
Originally Posted by ally-g
However, the new drivers also represented a significant technology advance compared to their own branded 2 phase drivers. It's difficult (for me) to determine whether the driver technology upgrade or the move to a 3-phase system was actually the major contributor.
My original driver for my 8inch 4th axis was also of the earlier kind and it wasn't possible to increase the speed at all due to resonances. After upgrading the driver to a more recent Leadshine device I was able to increase the speed considerably. Tormach now appear to provide the MA860H as standard but I haven't tried that particular type (I have one behind me right now – perhaps if I find some time…).
The standard 4th axis speed is really very slow and I almost suspect this might have been retained for backwards compatibility with older drivers.
Step
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Step.My machine is a S3 with 3-phase on the axis motors and I believe the MA860H and 2-phase on my 6" super spacer.If you ever get around to testing further with your 4th axis I would appreciate some settings to try as I would not even know where to start.