I now have access to a 220V plug! What parts of my VFD/Spindle should I upgrade?

YAY! My shop moved and I now have access to a 220V single phase (NEMA 14-50 plug, USA). My current setup is a small 1.5Kw ER11 air cooled spindle and a 110V VFD. Currently when cutting through hardwoods, and watching the VFD, the spindle stalls out around 2.5amps. I would like to upgrade and wondering where the money is best spent. Pics attached of my current gear.

Budget is around $200.
1) Should I go for the cheap 2.2KW water cooled spindle and VFD combo off of eBay?
2) Buy are really nice VFD and upgrade the spindle at a later time (When I get more funding)?
3) Something else?

Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

YAY! My shop moved and I now have access to a 220V single phase (NEMA 14-50 plug, USA). My current setup is a small 1.5Kw ER11 air cooled spindle and a 110V VFD. Currently when cutting through hardwoods, and watching the VFD, the spindle stalls out around 2.5amps. I would like to upgrade and wondering where the money is best spent. Pics attached of my current gear.

Budget is around $200.
1) Should I go for the cheap 2.2KW water cooled spindle and VFD combo off of eBay?
2) Buy are really nice VFD and upgrade the spindle at a later time (When I get more funding)?
3) Something else?

Thoughts?

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You mean 240v if you live in NA how many amps is the Breaker on this circuit??

How many amps is your 120v supply to the VFD Drive

Was that 2.5A on the VFD Drive keypad Screen, if so, that would be 7.5A at the spindle

Ebay, It would depend on which one, not all are equal and cheap may not be much better than what you have

Yep, 240V. I have a 50A circuit normally used for charging the EV.

My 120V VFD is/was connected to a 20A circuit.

Yes, the 2.5A was on the VFD drive keypad screen. What's the math to get 7.5A? 2.5A per phase, 3 phases to the spindle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

Yep, 240V. I have a 50A circuit normally used for charging the EV.

My 120V VFD is/was connected to a 20A circuit.

Yes, the 2.5A was on the VFD drive keypad screen. What's the math to get 7.5A? 2.5A per phase, 3 phases to the spindle?

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The VFD Drive only displays (1) of the phases, so it is normally quite simple x 3=7.5A which would be the max for that spindle, there could be some Parameters that could help depending on the VFD Drive, when they reach there max the VFD will be at its max also unless it is over sized for the spindle, so a stall is going to happen, just back the feed off until it does not stall or take a smaller depth of cut, (2) options

Bummer. I could bump up the max amps setting in the VFD, but I am really close to maxing the VFD. The motor is also close to maxed. I would rather avoid burning up anything in this process... I think I am leaning towards upgrading both. Any advice on Spindle/VFD upgrades?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

Bummer. I could bump up the max amps setting in the VFD, but I am really close to maxing the VFD. The motor is also close to maxed. I would rather avoid burning up anything in this process... I think I am leaning towards upgrading both. Any advice on Spindle/VFD upgrades?

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The spindle motor would have to be able to use 11A using 120v to be a true 1.5Kw,120v supply is the problem, if your 1.5Kw had of been 220v / 240v it would perform much better you are only getting around 1000w or1Kw from your spindle motor when using 120v supply, your 1.5Kw VFD Drive can't give you 11A / 12A for your spindle and your spindle is not designed for more than 7.5 / 8A max

G-Penny has one of the best spindles, VFD Drives Huanyang is still the best in the lower price range

My spindle is 110V @ 8A. That's 880W (Assuming 110V * 8A is the correct math)? But the name plate also says 1.5kw.

Above example is 120V * 11A = 1320W. If there a conversion factor I am missing to reach 1.5Kw?

Just trying to understand all the math around this so I can make educated decisions when it comes to upgrading.

Thanks for all the good info!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

My spindle is 110V @ 8A. That's 880W (Assuming 110V * 8A is the correct math)? But the name plate also says 1.5kw.

Above example is 120V * 11A = 1320W. If there a conversion factor I am missing to reach 1.5Kw?

Just trying to understand all the math around this so I can make educated decisions when it comes to upgrading.

Thanks for all the good info!!!

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That is correct without using a PF which is always part of the equation

1500/110=13.6A this is not including a PF correction so the name plate amps on the spindle is incorrect for a 1.5Kw spindle @110v with Power factor correction of .8 it would be10.9A with a power factor correction of .6 it would be 8.1A having this power factor of .6 would be horrible and very inefficient, .9 and better is the norm when using a VFD Drive

1500/120=12.5A you can use 120v in the VFD Drive Parameters for the voltage as this will help a small amount and the spindle could use the 120v
1000/120=8.3A x PF=7.5A

Now it gets complicated. My current VFD states 110V, 17A (Pictures in first post), or about 1.87Kw. But the VFD also states 1.5Kw. So the VFD burns off about 20% of its power as heat/conversion losses? I would expect that. Running on a 120V 20A circuit I can safely draw 16A...Close enough!

What number(s) should I believe on the Spindle? 110V, 8A, or 1.5Kw? Option B, if it gets too hot and burns up, I pushed it too hard. ;-)

Current VFD's parameter's:
F140 = 1.5Kw (Rated power of motor)
F141 = 110V (Rated voltage of motor)
F142 = 8A (Rated current of motor)

I am going to make some assumptions here, and probably blow up my current setup. I have noticed, even when running through hard woods, that the spindle does not get noticeably warm. I think I can push it harder. First assumption, 1.5Kw name plate on the motor is believable. Second assumption power factor correction some where between 0.8~0.9. As such I am going to make the following changes:
F140 = 1.5Kw
F141 = 120V
F142 = 11A

That would give me a rating of 1.32Kw, with a Power factor correction around 0.88. Single phase max power draw before stall will be around 3.6A. Or about a 40% performance boost over the current settings. Worst case outcome is the Spindle melts down shorting out the VFD. Then I would have an excuse to upgrade. Does all my math look correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

Now it gets complicated. My current VFD states 110V, 17A (Pictures in first post), or about 1.87Kw. But the VFD also states 1.5Kw. So the VFD burns off about 20% of its power as heat/conversion losses? I would expect that. Running on a 120V 20A circuit I can safely draw 16A...Close enough!

What number(s) should I believe on the Spindle? 110V, 8A, or 1.5Kw? Option B, if it gets too hot and burns up, I pushed it too hard. ;-)

Current VFD's parameter's:
F140 = 1.5Kw (Rated power of motor)
F141 = 110V (Rated voltage of motor)
F142 = 8A (Rated current of motor)

I am going to make some assumptions here, and probably blow up my current setup. I have noticed, even when running through hard woods, that the spindle does not get noticeably warm. I think I can push it harder. First assumption, 1.5Kw name plate on the motor is believable. Second assumption power factor correction some where between 0.8~0.9. As such I am going to make the following changes:
F140 = 1.5Kw
F141 = 120V
F142 = 11A

That would give me a rating of 1.32Kw, with a Power factor correction around 0.88. Single phase max power draw before stall will be around 3.6A. Or about a 40% performance boost over the current settings. Worst case outcome is the Spindle melts down shorting out the VFD. Then I would have an excuse to upgrade. Does all my math look correct?

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Dreams can be just that, reality is very different, you can't just take a PF number and call it good it does not work like that

11A at the spindle would require 19A at the input supply current to the VFD Drive nothing is for free, which you will be lucky if your 20A supply can do that, your spindle may take the extra current for a short while, I would not do this unless you are prepared for it to fail

What VFD Drive do you have model # Etc. there may be some other Parameters I could look at, that can be set, that could help rather than go beyond the spindles current limit, the spindle name plate specs it is 8A beyond that is dream land or the unknown.

None of these 110 / 120v spindle have been that successful they never can reach the full advertised power; the lower watt spindles have been ok using the 120v like 800w and the 600w most others are using 220 / 240v for the higher Kw spindles and they work well

Here is a good video on PF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp6Rv5cUQG8&t=1s

I have so many dreams.... :-(

Thanks for the good video on PF.

Manual for my H100-1.5C2 VFD. "there may be some other Parameters I could look at"???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

I have so many dreams.... :-(

Thanks for the good video on PF.

Manual for my H100-1.5C2 VFD. "there may be some other Parameters I could look at"???

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Give these a try and take note of the Parameters that are different in case you have to go back.

F003=400

F004=400

F005=400

F006=260

F007=120

F008=120

F009=78

F010=10

F041=8

F140=1.5

F141=120

F142=8

F143=02

F144=2400

Stock settings were:
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
F006=1* (Intermediate frequency)
F007=0.5* (Maximum frequency)
F008=220* (Maximum voltage)
F009=12.6* (Intermediate voltage)
F010=13* (Low-frequency torque boost voltage)
F041=6* (Carrier frequency)
F140=1.5
F141=110* (Rated voltage of the motor)
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

I will get the VFD updated and do some test cuts.
Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

Stock settings were:
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
F006=1* (Intermediate frequency)
F007=0.5* (Maximum frequency)
F008=220* (Maximum voltage)
F009=12.6* (Intermediate voltage)
F010=13* (Low-frequency torque boost voltage)
F041=6* (Carrier frequency)
F140=1.5
F141=110* (Rated voltage of the motor)
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

I will get the VFD updated and do some test cuts.
Thanks!

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Did you get it changed as there is some changes that your set needs if the F008= 220v can't change then your VFD Drive is not suitable for your 120V supply

F007=120 ( Minimum Spindle speed) This may need some change as the manual has some confusion for this Parameter.

F008=120 (voltage)

F027=20 (Minimum Start up Frequency) New one is not in the list

Your Intermediate Frequency and Intermediate Voltage is way off these two Parmeter's F/V must match as they work together

F008 is hard set to 220V, cant be changed. But the sticker on the side of the VFD says "3HP 0-110V 17A 0-650HZ" (Pic attached in my first post). Ummm... Can I run at 240V? Any good way to verify this, before hooking up 240V@50A?

My setting should be?
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
*F006=260 (Intermediate frequency)
F007=120
F008=220 (Cant change)
*F009=78 (Intermediate voltage)
F010=10
F027=20
F041=8
F140=1.5
F141=120
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

"Parameter's F/V must match as they work together". What should I set F006/F009 to?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

F008 is hard set to 220V, cant be changed. But the sticker on the side of the VFD says "3HP 0-110V 17A 0-650HZ" (Pic attached in my first post). Ummm... Can I run at 240V? Any good way to verify this, before hooking up 240V@50A?

My setting should be?
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
*F006=260 (Intermediate frequency)
F007=120
F008=220 (Cant change)
*F009=78 (Intermediate voltage)
F010=10
F027=20
F041=8
F140=1.5
F141=120
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

"Parameter's F/V must match as they work together". What should I set F006/F009 to?

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The specs in the manual are what is important, they will stick a sticker on it to make a sale, the 17A model is for a 3.7Kw spindle @ 220v

F006 and F009 to what I posted

You can't run your 110v / 120v spindle with your 220v / 240v supply, you could use a 220v rated spindle though, this also can't just be on a plug that you plug in this needs to be a switched supply

Sorry about the slow response. Had to install a new 120V 20A circuit in order to support my CNC. The test was simple. Set RPM to 24000, Set Z depth, travel 6" at 120IPM. 1/2" 2fl strait cut router bit, scrap chunk of particle board. How hard can I push before stalling, or breaking the bit.

On the stock settings. Cut died about 3" into the Z-0.2 around 4 amps. Felt maxed out near 3.2 amps.

Started tweaking settings:
F6 maxes out at 15
F9 maxes out at 30
F10 maxes out at 9

Now set to:
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
F006=1
F007=120
F008=120 (Got it! I was being dumb)
F009=12.6
F010=3
F027=20
F041=8
F140=1.5
F141=120
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

With the new settings, died about 3" into the Z-0.25 @ ~5Amps, Worked well up to 4 amps. 5A*3=15A *12V = 1800w, or 1.8KW. Need to be carful not to sustain that other wise my spindle will melt. Any other setting (F6, 9, 10?) you would advise tweaking?

I am not intending to push my CNC any where near that hard. It's just nice to have the extra power on the spindle when I am cutting hard wood and run across a knot, or exceptionally hard spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

Sorry about the slow response. Had to install a new 120V 20A circuit in order to support my CNC. The test was simple. Set RPM to 24000, Set Z depth, travel 6" at 120IPM. 1/2" 2fl strait cut router bit, scrap chunk of particle board. How hard can I push before stalling, or breaking the bit.

On the stock settings. Cut died about 3" into the Z-0.2 around 4 amps. Felt maxed out near 3.2 amps.

Started tweaking settings:
F6 maxes out at 15
F9 maxes out at 30
F10 maxes out at 9

Now set to:
F003=400
F004=400
F005=400
F006=1
F007=120
F008=120 (Got it! I was being dumb)
F009=12.6
F010=3
F027=20
F041=8
F140=1.5
F141=120
F142=8
F143=02
F144=2400

With the new settings, died about 3" into the Z-0.25 @ ~5Amps, Worked well up to 4 amps. 5A*3=15A *12V = 1800w, or 1.8KW. Need to be carful not to sustain that other wise my spindle will melt. Any other setting (F6, 9, 10?) you would advise tweaking?

I am not intending to push my CNC any where near that hard. It's just nice to have the extra power on the spindle when I am cutting hard wood and run across a knot, or exceptionally hard spot.

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Some problem if you can't change those Parameters as the manual says that it can I changed one here and added another

F006=260 (This Parameter is good up to 1000)

F007=20 (changed this one)

F009=78 (This Parameter is good up to 510)

F010=10

F011=120 (added this one)

It's not a big deal if F6 / F9 can't be changed, it just means the power won't be linear over the RPM range

You may be able to try Vector mode this will make the spindle run smoother and have better torque in the lower RPM range, if it can work with your spindle

So, Try this Parameter also
F012=1 (Vector control=1 V / F control=0)

My old setup process/settings
F013 = 8, Reset the VFD to factory defaults
F001 = 1, 0-10V RPM control
F002 = 1, Frequency from AI1
F005 = 400, Max Operating Frequency
F004 = 400, Ref Operating Frequency
F003 = 400, Main Operating Frequency
F014 = 1, 1 second start up speed, default is 5
F045 = 0, Connector X2 nulled out
F140 = 1.5KW, (Default)
F141 = 120V, Spindle voltage
F142 = 8, amp spindle
F143 = 2, number of spindle poles
F144 = 2400, RPM 10X
F171 = 2, Set default display more to RPM
F185 = 5 , Startup pre-set display

New settings, after a factory reset
F013 = 8, Reset the VFD to factory defaults
F001 = 1, 0-10V RPM control
F002 = 1, Frequency from AI1
F005 = 400, Max Operating Frequency
F004 = 400, Ref Operating Frequency
F003 = 400, Main Operating Frequency
F006 = 260, Intermediate Frequency (No love, maxes out at 15, default is 1)
F007 = 20, Maximum frequency
F008 = 120, Maximum voltage
F009 = 78, Intermediate voltage (No love, maxes out at 30, default is 12.6)
F010 = 10, Low-frequency torque boost voltage, (Maxes out at 9. Set to 9)
F011 = 120, Lower Frequency Limit
F012 = 1, Vector control=1 V / F control=0 (Default was/is 1)
F014 = 1, 1 second start up speed, default is 5
F027 = 20, Starting Frequency
F041 = 8, Carrier frequency
F045 = 0, Connector X2 nulled out
F140 = 1.5KW, (Default)
F141 = 120V, Spindle voltage
F142 = 8, amp spindle
F143 = 2, number of spindle poles
F144 = 2400, RPM 10X
F171 = 2, Set default display more to RPM
F185 = 5, Startup pre-set display

Slightly better performance with the new settings. F005 must be set to 400, before I can tweak F004 and F003. Could we be having the same issue with F6/F9?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DingbatCA

My old setup process/settings
F013 = 8, Reset the VFD to factory defaults
F001 = 1, 0-10V RPM control
F002 = 1, Frequency from AI1
F005 = 400, Max Operating Frequency
F004 = 400, Ref Operating Frequency
F003 = 400, Main Operating Frequency
F014 = 1, 1 second start up speed, default is 5
F045 = 0, Connector X2 nulled out
F140 = 1.5KW, (Default)
F141 = 120V, Spindle voltage
F142 = 8, amp spindle
F143 = 2, number of spindle poles
F144 = 2400, RPM 10X
F171 = 2, Set default display more to RPM
F185 = 5 , Startup pre-set display

New settings, after a factory reset
F013 = 8, Reset the VFD to factory defaults
F001 = 1, 0-10V RPM control
F002 = 1, Frequency from AI1
F005 = 400, Max Operating Frequency
F004 = 400, Ref Operating Frequency
F003 = 400, Main Operating Frequency
F006 = 260, Intermediate Frequency (No love, maxes out at 15, default is 1)
F007 = 20, Maximum frequency
F008 = 120, Maximum voltage
F009 = 78, Intermediate voltage (No love, maxes out at 30, default is 12.6)
F010 = 10, Low-frequency torque boost voltage, (Maxes out at 9. Set to 9)
F011 = 120, Lower Frequency Limit
F012 = 1, Vector control=1 V / F control=0 (Default was/is 1)
F014 = 1, 1 second start up speed, default is 5
F027 = 20, Starting Frequency
F041 = 8, Carrier frequency
F045 = 0, Connector X2 nulled out
F140 = 1.5KW, (Default)
F141 = 120V, Spindle voltage
F142 = 8, amp spindle
F143 = 2, number of spindle poles
F144 = 2400, RPM 10X
F171 = 2, Set default display more to RPM
F185 = 5, Startup pre-set display

Slightly better performance with the new settings. F005 must be set to 400, before I can tweak F004 and F003. Could we be having the same issue with F6/F9?

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Sometimes that happens one Parameter can be reliant on another be it can be set

F014=1 (is too low 3 is normally the minimum) for a spindle like this