Huangyang 2.2kw VFD pd177-180 Errors

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Originally Posted by justinwol

I'm not sure we have the same model (HY02D223B) or version (Vr1.000). This is not how mine works. P003 does not prevent max spindle RPM if below 400 (max Hz of spindle) when using the keypad. I'm done here now, but as a courtesy, see below if you're interested in the difference between my VFD and the ones you work on regarding PD003's operation.

Again, very much appreciate your help!


This is how PD003 parameter works on the HY02D223B that I have (some of this has already been stated, but for completeness I included it):

First, PD003 applies to the keypad mode only or as the manual says "digital operator mode". Setting PD002 = 1 changes to "external control multi-speed mode" and PD003 is not used.

Using the keypad mode only (PD002 = 0), PD003 must be set between PD005(max Hz) and PD011(min Hz) - in my case 400 and 100 respectively. It doesn't matter if PD003 is 100 or 400, you can still get the max spindle rpm (24,000) using the keypad.

For example, the settings PD002 = 0 (keypad only), PD005 = 400, PD011 = 100, PD003 = 100 will simply result in the spindle running at 100hz (6000 rpm) when RUN is pressed. With these settings, I can change the spindle frequency with the keypad all the way up to 400hz (24,000). When the spindle is stopped PD003 will be set to the frequency that was last set using the keypad (in this example, if stopped at 400 Hz, PD003 would now be set to 400, not 100 anymore). Setting PD003 = 400, instead of 100 initially, has the spindle start up at 400 Hz (24,000) when RUN is pressed.

With this in mind, I chose to start the spindle on my first run at a conservative speed of 120 (7200 RPM) so that I could monitor things. I did not want to first test the spindle at max RPM!

To summarize, on my model, setting PD003 below max (400 Hz) does not limit the keypad from getting max RPM. It only sets the initial Speed 1 when run is pressed (as the manual states) and this setting is changed during constant run with the keypad. Therefore the next time you turn on the spindle it will start at the last setting you selected with the keypad.

Hope that helps!
Take care.

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I'm afraid your VFD Drive is no different from what anyone else's has, here is how the KeyPad works and needs to be set to memorize the last speed

You are making it sound like it is different but it is not


(4) When both UP and DOWN terminals are closed at the same time the frequency will neither increase nor decrease. It is regarded as invalid.

(5) When the frequency reaches the max operating frequency it will stop increasing.

(6) When the frequency reaches the min frequency or its lower limit, it will stop decreasing.

(7) After a power breakdown the set value of PD003 will be memorized instead of the frequency.

(8) When using the function of UP and DOWN, the keys of the panel are valid. After changing the values it needs to press SET (ENTER) key for confirmation and then the inverter can implement the action. Meanwhile the value will write to PD003, which will be memorized after a power breakdown.

(9) When keeping pressing UP or DOWN the frequency will increase or decrease rapidly to a point and then increase or decrease at even speed.

(10) The value changed by UP or DOWN can be set through PD077 for confirmation of whether it should be memorized or not memorized. For details refer to PD077.

Thanks again, I'm still trying to properly understand PD003. If my unit is the same, then I'm missing something as what you have said has not matched with my testing or the manual that I got.

I have a few questions here:

1. What does this mean? What do you mean by "the frequency" as PD003 is the main frequency when PD002 = 0 (keypad mode).

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Originally Posted by mactec54

(7) After a power breakdown the set value of PD003 will be memorized instead of the frequency.

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On my unit, PD003 is always remembered, whether PD077 is set to 0 or 1. After Cutting power or restarting the spindle, PD003 is set to the last frequency set with the keypad - regardless of whether I press SET or not.

2. I'm not understanding properly how PD003 will prevent the spindle from reaching max RPM. What did you mean by this:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

if you use the Keypad only, it must be set at the max main Frequency of your spindle =400Hz to get the max spindle RPM

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PD003 setting has no impact on whether I can reach max RPM using the keypad only. So I'm not understanding this point.

3. Are you talking about PD003 limiting RPM when in a different mode? (i.e. "External terminal", PD001 = 1)
As you've explicitly said above "if you use the Keypad only" PD003 needs to be 400 or the spindle won't reach max RPM. This just isn't the case for me. However, maybe your saying that PD003 conflicts with "External terminal" functions? I don't have an analog output yet for Mach3, so I have not and will not be able to do this for some time.

I will primarily be using the pot on the VFD in analog mode (PD002 = 1) for the time being. But you worried me a bit with the statement that it is "best practice" to set PD003 to 400, but I've not understood exactly why or what would go wrong if it wasn't set to 400, because just about all of my testing so far has been done with PD003 set to something other than 400 - because I initially set it to 120 and the keypad changes PD003. I don't want to wreck my VFD!

P.S. Please don't read this in a negative light. I don't want to antagonize you after you've been voluntarily aiding me! I'm only concerned about properly understand my VFD. You are eager to help and I don't want to stop you!

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Originally Posted by justinwol

Thanks again, I'm still trying to properly understand PD003. If my unit is the same, then I'm missing something as what you have said has not matched with my testing or the manual that I got.

I have a few questions here:

1. What does this mean? What do you mean by "the frequency" as PD003 is the main frequency when PD002 = 0 (keypad mode).


On my unit, PD003 is always remembered, whether PD077 is set to 0 or 1. After Cutting power or restarting the spindle, PD003 is set to the last frequency set with the keypad - regardless of whether I press SET or not.

2. I'm not understanding properly how PD003 will prevent the spindle from reaching max RPM. What did you mean by this:


PD003 setting has no impact on whether I can reach max RPM using the keypad only. So I'm not understanding this point.

3. Are you talking about PD003 limiting RPM when in a different mode? (i.e. "External terminal", PD001 = 1)
As you've explicitly said above "if you use the Keypad only" PD003 needs to be 400 or the spindle won't reach max RPM. This just isn't the case for me. However, maybe your saying that PD003 conflicts with "External terminal" functions? I don't have an analog output yet for Mach3, so I have not and will not be able to do this for some time.

I will primarily be using the pot on the VFD in analog mode (PD002 = 1) for the time being. But you worried me a bit with the statement that it is "best practice" to set PD003 to 400, but I've not understood exactly why or what would go wrong if it wasn't set to 400, because just about all of my testing so far has been done with PD003 set to something other than 400 - because I initially set it to 120 and the keypad changes PD003. I don't want to wreck my VFD!

P.S. Please don't read this in a negative light. I don't want to antagonize you after you've been voluntarily aiding me! I'm only concerned about properly understand my VFD. You are eager to help and I don't want to stop you!

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The manual states very clearly PD003 is the Main Frequency, and needs to be set at the max Frequency that is being used

What is the reason for this, if there is a power cut the only Parameter that will be active is PD003 so if this is set at 120Hz then your spindle on startup will try and start using 120Hz we all know what happens when these spindle try to start / run on a lower than rated Frequency

You won't wreck your VFD Drive, but it does happen sometimes but the spindle will certainly be damaged

There are no negatives with the PD003 being set at the correct Spindle Frequency, but there could be if set at a lower Frequency

When using remote and not the KeyPad PD003 is not active Only if there is a Power Cut is it then active it will be the only Parameter in memory and will try and start your spindle using this set Frequency

You set them an forget them don't keep changing them to see if something is going to happen or it will, you are dealing with a very unsophisticated VFD Drive compared to an expensive VFD Drive

Trying to make these VFD Drives be something they are not, will only end in replacement as many before you have found out

Mac.....thanks for enlightening me on the settings of a (my) VFD...…...one statement you did stress and that was NOT to switch the VFD off at the wall socket but on the VFD itself then isolate it at the wall socket when finished.

In OZ we have earth leakage trip devices on the main power supply box that detects any leakage to earth and immediately trips the breaker in the main house supply cabinet.

Would this be interpreted as switching the VFD and motor off by the wall switch while the VFD Is still powering the motor?

At the same time we have had many temporary power outs, some lasting a few seconds, others a hour or more......in South Africa they have power outs practically every day for hours at a time.

Would I be wise to have a UPS on my wall socket where the VFD is plugged in..... (and my CNC mill and computer)…. to continue a supply until I can switch the VFD off manually?....I have one in my study for my CCTV and desktop computer.
Ian.

Well you've got me quite confused.

Are you saying that these spindles are damaged when running at slower speeds than max RPM??

How do you run the spindle at variable speeds without changing its main frequency or as the manual states "operating frequency"? I cannot run the spindle at max RPM and have no plans on doing so. That would require my CNC to feed far faster than it is capable of.

I have not found where it says PD003 needs to be set to the maximum. My manual says that the "operating frequency" is set by 1 of 3 sources, the digital operator, external terminals, or MODBUS:

1. PD002 is the "source of the operating frequency". This can be set to the "digital operator" or PD003 (PD002 = 0), "external terminals" (PD002 = 1), or MODBUS (PD002 = 3).
2. "In the digital operator mode, the inverter will run at the set value of PD003. During running, the operating frequency can be changed by pressing UP or DOWN."
3. "During multi-speed running, the main frequency is taken as the frequency of Speed 1."

In multi-speed mode PD003 is taken as Speed 1, speeds 2-16 are set with PD086-PD100

4. "In external control multi-speed mode, if PD002 is set to 1, i.e. given by an external terminal, Speed 1 will be given by the analog of the external terminal."

The analog voltage or amps (range set by PD070) determines the operating frequency

In all 3 modes the "operating frequency" is adjustable during running - intentionally. I cannot find where it says that PD003 must be set to the max frequency of the motor (this is what PD004 is, "This parameter must be set according to the rated frequency" and "do not change the set value of base frequency at will"). Instead, it describes how the VFD runs a variable speed motor and how all three modes adjust the "operating frequency" during running.

If I'm using a pot in external terminal mode, the operating frequency will be set by the analog input voltage/amps set by PD070. Therefore, even if PD003 is set to 400, the VFD will be operating at the frequency set by the analog input, and if this is less then the max voltage in PD070, it will be less than 400. In my case, I'm never going to just turn the pot to max (5V) and leave it there, because that is too fast for my machine (24,000 RPM) so it will be operating at less than 400 Hz.

Likewise, in the furture, if I'm using MODBUS, I can set the operating frequency with speeds 1-16, PD086-PD100 and PD003. And each speed will be set a lower frequency than 400, except for maybe Speed 16 which could be the max RPM speed.

Long story short. I need to be able to run the spindle at less than max RPM. If I cannot do this safely and reliably with this spindle. I need to return it.

So I'm very grateful for your help! I definitely feel like I'm missing something important here. I apologize if I'm unintentionally frustrating you!

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Originally Posted by handlewanker

Mac.....thanks for enlightening me on the settings of a (my) VFD...…...one statement you did stress and that was NOT to switch the VFD off at the wall socket but on the VFD itself then isolate it at the wall socket when finished.

In OZ we have earth leakage trip devices on the main power supply box that detects any leakage to earth and immediately trips the breaker in the main house supply cabinet.

Would this be interpreted as switching the VFD and motor off by the wall switch while the VFD Is still powering the motor?

At the same time we have had many temporary power outs, some lasting a few seconds, others a hour or more......in South Africa they have power outs practically every day for hours at a time.

Would I be wise to have a UPS on my wall socket where the VFD is plugged in..... (and my CNC mill and computer)…. to continue a supply until I can switch the VFD off manually?....I have one in my study for my CCTV and desktop computer.
Ian.

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You GFCI is not a switch for turning something On / Off with, it is a safety device, a regular switch at the wall is fine, Plugging a VFD Drive into a live Plug that can cause a spike and take out the front end electronics so when Plugging and Unplugging a VFD drive the supply Power should be Off

GFCI can present problems when a VFD Drive is used on a Circuit that has this, I don't recommend that you use a circuit that has a GFCI on it, even though that will be code in your country, but saying that if the circuit is rated for the Amps needed then you should not have a problem, the same goes for a UPS I don't recommend anyone use one for a VFD Drives backup Power, it would have to be a monster to be suitable for a VFD Drive and would cost a lot of money

A VFD Drive is normally used in an industrial setting so this is where some of the problems using VFD Drive start to show when used in residential homes workshops, in the NA the 240v supply does not need a GFCI but the 120v supply does

With what you are doing with your VFD Drive you won't have any problems 50Hz 60Hz Parameter settings you can't go wrong the only thing I would be concerned with is the GFCI tripping as a VFD Drive can cause Ground faults so just try and see it won't affect your drive because you are only running at low Frequency

It's only the high Frequency spindle motor 300Hz 400Hz 800Hz Etc that you have to have things setup a little different

If you get any tripping of the GFCI then the first thing would be to add a EMI Power Filter this will help the Power supply noise and better health for the VFD Drive as well this you would install close to the VFD Drive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justinwol

Well you've got me quite confused.

Are you saying that these spindles are damaged when running at slower speeds than max RPM??

How do you run the spindle at variable speeds without changing its main frequency or as the manual states "operating frequency"? I cannot run the spindle at max RPM and have no plans on doing so. That would require my CNC to feed far faster than it is capable of.

I have not found where it says PD003 needs to be set to the maximum. My manual says that the "operating frequency" is set by 1 of 3 sources, the digital operator, external terminals, or MODBUS:

1. PD002 is the "source of the operating frequency". This can be set to the "digital operator" or PD003 (PD002 = 0), "external terminals" (PD002 = 1), or MODBUS (PD002 = 3).
2. "In the digital operator mode, the inverter will run at the set value of PD003. During running, the operating frequency can be changed by pressing UP or DOWN."
3. "During multi-speed running, the main frequency is taken as the frequency of Speed 1."

In multi-speed mode PD003 is taken as Speed 1, speeds 2-16 are set with PD086-PD100

4. "In external control multi-speed mode, if PD002 is set to 1, i.e. given by an external terminal, Speed 1 will be given by the analog of the external terminal."

The analog voltage or amps (range set by PD070) determines the operating frequency

In all 3 modes the "operating frequency" is adjustable during running - intentionally. I cannot find where it says that PD003 must be set to the max frequency of the motor (this is what PD004 is, "This parameter must be set according to the rated frequency" and "do not change the set value of base frequency at will"). Instead, it describes how the VFD runs a variable speed motor and how all three modes adjust the "operating frequency" during running.

If I'm using a pot in external terminal mode, the operating frequency will be set by the analog input voltage/amps set by PD070. Therefore, even if PD003 is set to 400, the VFD will be operating at the frequency set by the analog input, and if this is less then the max voltage in PD070, it will be less than 400. In my case, I'm never going to just turn the pot to max (5V) and leave it there, because that is too fast for my machine (24,000 RPM) so it will be operating at less than 400 Hz.

Likewise, in the furture, if I'm using MODBUS, I can set the operating frequency with speeds 1-16, PD086-PD100 and PD003. And each speed will be set a lower frequency than 400, except for maybe Speed 16 which could be the max RPM speed.

Long story short. I need to be able to run the spindle at less than max RPM. If I cannot do this safely and reliably with this spindle. I need to return it.

So I'm very grateful for your help! I definitely feel like I'm missing something important here. I apologize if I'm unintentionally frustrating you!

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You are able to change the speeds in any mode be cause you are not using any of the drive defaults

With using the KeyPad only

Jumper J1 would be in 2-4 position I think this is the part you have not been changing to do a normal Keypad up down arrow use

PD001=0
PD002=0

Then see how the KeyPad works although I don't know all the other Parameters you have changed related to the KeyPad use this should only work with what you have set in PD003

Can you damage the Spindle Yes if you try starting it on a lower Frequency than what the motor max rated Frequency is, this is the part you are getting lost with PD003 is a Main Parameter and if your drive tried to start on the 120Hz then you spindle could be damaged


As long as the main VFD Drive Parameters are set you can run at any speed in the range the spindle can use

You have already set the minimum and maximin Frequency and the motor spec's

PD005=400 Max
PD011=120 Min

Ah Ha....so it's a spark at the wall switch that you have to prevent by NOT hot plugging in or out a plug...….never done that, and it would be difficult as our plugs really stick in the wall socket tight, and it's highly dangerous too for breaking a circuit.

On the UPS path, the one I have, which is quite modest, is rated to supply for 1 hour 220 volts at 10 amps, so if the VFD needs backing up that would do the trick plenty well.....the motor for the VFD is only 3/4 HP 3 phase......probably 4 amps at most.

We do on occasion get mains spikes from someone switching a heavy load on somewhere down the line, and sometimes the Earth trip does trip out for no apparent reason.

They are fitted as part of the mains supply safety requirement and will trip at 10 Ma leakage to earth .....you can't disable it even if you wanted to.

BTW, on the PD003 VFD thing......reading about the varying speed control in the last post I though the speed was controlled by the round knob on the front....at least mine does...….I won't get into that discussion, just watching to see the outcome.
Ian.

I'm glad I stuck with this conversation as I'm gathering that it is really important exactly how I'm varying the speed of the spindle to avoid damaging the spindle.

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Originally Posted by mactec54

You are able to change the speeds in any mode be cause you are not using any of the drive defaults

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I did a factory reset (though you said that was not advisable). So all my settings, except for the ones listed in a previous post are the drive defaults.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

With using the KeyPad only

Jumper J1 would be in 2-4 position I think this is the part you have not been changing to do a normal Keypad up down arrow use

PD001=0
PD002=0

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PD001 and PD002 are both set to 0. As this discussion has gone on, I've only been using keypad mode (digital operator mode). Jumper J1 has only three pins. The manual states this:

"Please short circuit the 2-3 foot of J1 terminal when using the board potentiometer." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.
"Please short circuit the 1-2 foot of J1 terminal when using the external connection potentiometer or external power supply." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.

Jump J1 is currently shorting 2-3 because I have not used an external source, only the VFD's potentiometer. But for this discussion, I have switched to using only keypad mode. Even so, as stated in the manual, the "operating frequency" will be set using the potentiometer in the range set with PD070. In my case the manual says to set PD070 = 1 which is 0-5V, because that is the analog input of the potentiometer on the VFD itself.

I am currently unable to change the speed of the spindle without changing the "operating frequency" either with the keypad or the potentiometer on the front of the VFD. You are saying this is bad for the spindle and will damage it? If the "operating frequency" is supposed to be locked at 400 Hz, how does the VFD change the speed? Adjusting current or voltage? Even if this is the case, I have not found out how to do it this way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justinwol

I'm glad I stuck with this conversation as I'm gathering that it is really important exactly how I'm varying the speed of the spindle to avoid damaging the spindle.



I did a factory reset (though you said that was not advisable). So all my settings, except for the ones listed in a previous post are the drive defaults.




PD001 and PD002 are both set to 0. As this discussion has gone on, I've only been using keypad mode (digital operator mode). Jumper J1 has only three pins. The manual states this:

"Please short circuit the 2-3 foot of J1 terminal when using the board potentiometer." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.
"Please short circuit the 1-2 foot of J1 terminal when using the external connection potentiometer or external power supply." PD002 = 1, PD070 = 1.

Jump J1 is currently shorting 2-3 because I have not used an external source, only the VFD's potentiometer. But for this discussion, I have switched to using only keypad mode. Even so, as stated in the manual, the "operating frequency" will be set using the potentiometer in the range set with PD070. In my case the manual says to set PD070 = 1 which is 0-5V, because that is the analog input of the potentiometer on the VFD itself.

I am currently unable to change the speed of the spindle without changing the "operating frequency" either with the keypad or the potentiometer on the front of the VFD. You are saying this is bad for the spindle and will damage it? If the "operating frequency" is supposed to be locked at 400 Hz, how does the VFD change the speed? Adjusting current or voltage? Even if this is the case, I have not found out how to do it this way.

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Yes I put a 4 my mistake, it should of been a 2-3 is the normal Default jumper connections

For Pot use the J1 jumper was changed some years ago to have connection as 1-2 so I believe you have a very old Huangang VFD Drive or they have changed the configuration back to how it used to be, that is why we are seeing you have a different KeyPad setup operation it has been at least 6 years since they worked that way I always wondered why they changed them

This does not change the fact that your lack of understanding of how important the Parameter are and the PD003 is one of the main Parameters to set correct

And yes of course you can set it as you please but the day will come when you have a problem and poof the magic dragon will appear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handlewanker

Ah Ha....so it's a spark at the wall switch that you have to prevent by NOT hot plugging in or out a plug...….never done that, and it would be difficult as our plugs really stick in the wall socket tight, and it's highly dangerous too for breaking a circuit.

On the UPS path, the one I have, which is quite modest, is rated to supply for 1 hour 220 volts at 10 amps, so if the VFD needs backing up that would do the trick plenty well.....the motor for the VFD is only 3/4 HP 3 phase......probably 4 amps at most.

We do on occasion get mains spikes from someone switching a heavy load on somewhere down the line, and sometimes the Earth trip does trip out for no apparent reason.

They are fitted as part of the mains supply safety requirement and will trip at 10 Ma leakage to earth .....you can't disable it even if you wanted to.

BTW, on the PD003 VFD thing......reading about the varying speed control in the last post I though the speed was controlled by the round knob on the front....at least mine does...….I won't get into that discussion, just watching to see the outcome.
Ian.

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I would never suggest to anyone to even try to disable a GFCI they are there to help keep you safe

What you can do is run a dedicated line that is not GFCI protected if you have a tripping problem

10 amps may not do the trick if your motor is 4 amps the VFD will be more than double that because you are on single Phase and not 3ph

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Originally Posted by mactec54

This does not change the fact that your lack of understanding of how important the Parameter are and the PD003 is one of the main Parameters to set correct

And yes of course can set it as you please but the day will come when you have a problem and poof the magic dragon will appear

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This is exactly why I'm persisting on making sure I do understand PD003 properly first before I begin operating the spindle. Definitely don't want to see the magic dragon!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

For Pot use the J1 jumper was changed some years ago to have connection as 1-2 so I believe you have a very old Huangang VFD Drive or they have changed the configuration back to how it used to be, that is why we are seeing you have a different KeyPad setup operation it has been at least 6 years since they worked that way I always wondered why they changed them

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Putting the jumper from 1-2 or 2-3 does not change the keypad's operation for me. Also, the VFD's pot only works on 2-3 (which is what the manual says). With either jumper setting, the keypad UP or DOWN arrows change the frequency and PD003 (PD001 = 0 and PD002 = 0). This is consistent with what the manual is saying. The manual says that the jumper is for PD002 = 1 mode, it just changes the circuit from the VFD's pot to an external source. As a test, if I set J1 to 1-2, with PD003 = 400 and I have no external source connected, it sees ~0V and starts up at 100 Hz (PD073 = 100). I'm not seeing how PD003 = 400 is impacting "external terminal" mode (PD002 = 1) at all.

My main concern and what I'm hoping to properly understand is this. You've warned me (and I'm inclined to heed your warning because of the experience you've cited and the fact that I have none) that operating the spindle at less than 400 Hz will eventually damage the spindle. How does the VFD control the speed of the spindle without varying the "operating frequency"? Even if I set PD003 = 400, then switch to PD002 = 1 (external terminal mode) with Jumper J1 on 2-3 (VFD's potentiometer) and use the pot to change the speed of the spindle the "operating frequency" is changing with the pot. You can see this on the VFD's display.

If the spindle must run always at 400 Hz, how does it change speed? Why do we set a min and max "operating frequency"?

I'm trying very hard to understand this properly. Very glad to have your help in all this.