Powermax 1000 intermittent "no start" problem

I am having an intermittent problem with my brand new Hypertherm Powermax 1000. I'm cutting 18 gauge steel on my table at 40 amps using fine cut consumables, and most of the time it works great, but sometimes the torch will not fire. When the torch does not fire, the plasma cutter's fault light comes on, but no other light comes on with the fault light (i.e., the torch light and the low air pressure light remain off) so this would seem to indicate that whatever the problem is, its not low air pressure and its not whatever the torch light checks for (the only time I have seen it come on is if I unscrew the consumables when the power switch is still on).

When this happens, the air does not come on and the torch does not appear to try to fire. The fault light turns off by itself after several seconds. If I retry the cut right away, sometimes it will work fine, other times I can try it a few times and it will not cut. If I shut the plasma cutter off, remove the consumables, clean them up a bit, and reinstall them, it always seems to cut again, but the problem re-occurs, sometimes after several cuts, sometimes on the very next cut.

I thought maybe there was a problem with the consumables, I think there is something that needs to move in there to start the arc, but I don't know how to check for that...

Initially, I had a 2 second delay after each cut, during which time the air continues to flow, then the gantry moves to the next position which takes another couple of seconds before the next cut begins. It doesn't seem like this would be exceeding the duty cycle with 40 amp 18 gauge, but just to test it, I increased the delay between cuts to 6-8 seconds. This had no effect on the problem, it still occured just as frequently.


Something that is very strange is that my gantry moves along the cut path, even though the torch does not fire. My software is set up to not move the gantry until it gets the "ok to move" signal, which comes from the plasma cutter. I admit that I have not yet stuck a multimeter on these contacts to verify this for certain, but this feature has been working fine all along, so I can only assume that for some reason, the plasma cutter is signalling "ok to move", even though no arc has been established.

My air goes through a standard air dryer as it comes out of the compressor, and I have a dedicated Motor Guard air filter at the plasma cutter itself, so although the air quality isn't as nice as if I had an A/C dryer, it should be fairly decent.

My ground clamp has a nice clean connection to the metal itself, and there is no dirt or rust on this metal. (If it were a ground path type problem, the torch should still spit out a pilot arc, right? Its not even doing that when it fails to fire. Plus, like I mentioned, its closing the "ok to move" circuit, which is weird if no arc has been established. This makes me wonder if this is some sort of problem in the plasma cutter itself.)

Does anyone have any ideas, or things that I should try?

Many thanks!!

-Jon-

I am having the same issue on the same model. I ruin about 1 cutout of every 5 with this issue.
Are you using mach3?
If so what version. I think 3.041 may have had a bug that relates to this, But I havent upgraded beyond that yet.
Bug is supposed to be that the arc good pause was left out.
But if you are not running mach3 and find out why it is doing that, post your results.

Thanks

I would suggest calling Hypertherm tech service.....the people that answer the phone are very professional and will help you diagnose the problem very quickly.

HySupport
Technical Service
[email protected]
800-643-9878 Tel - Toll Free in USA
and Canada

Best regards, Jim Colt

Hello.
I am afraid that this is typikal for this machine. I am using powermax 1000 too and have the same problems. I can only suppose, there is not correct contact between nozzle and electrode. I am thinking in this way becose, if you clen up this parts - it works ok. at least a few times.
Any way, it is very annoying.

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Originally Posted by lowpull

I am having the same issue on the same model. I ruin about 1 cutout of every 5 with this issue.
Are you using mach3?
If so what version. I think 3.041 may have had a bug that relates to this, But I havent upgraded beyond that yet.
Bug is supposed to be that the arc good pause was left out.
But if you are not running mach3 and find out why it is doing that, post your results.

Thanks

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Hi,

No, I'm not using mach3 - this is actually a Torchmate TM1 machine, and I'm using their software (which I believe they get from FlascutCNC, I'm not sure if someone writes it for them or if it is theirs).

I had been running the table with a Powermax 600 and a machine torch setup for a few years, and just a few months ago, I upgraded to the PM 1000 along with a machine torch and Torchmate's height controller. In all the testing I did to get the height controller set up, the "ok to move" feature was working perfectly, so I don't think that is the case for me. I do plan to stick a multimeter on those contacts so that I can monitor it while its running though, just to verify that the plasma cutter is indeed sending that signal.

Since I'm getting a fault light on the plasma cutter, I'm inclined to lean towards the problem being something to do with the Powermax 1000. I'll definitely post an update if (or when, hopefully!) I finally figure out what is going on. In the meantime, if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions. Thanks!

Hey mopar,

We've had similar issues with our 1000. Been running for about 4 years now. It doesn't happen as often as you've had, but it has happened. A couple of things: Fine cut consumables for our's is 25 amp, we also run 40 and 60 amp set-ups, but they take a different retaining cap than the 25. For some reason the 25 amp has a metal strap mounted to the side. Not sure what it's there for but Hypertherm and torchmate have said it is a necessary component.

Something else I've noticed is if you're using TM software, are you connecting your toolpath before you export? Whenever I nest multiple parts, I have to connect, or I get the same prob you're describing.

Hope this helps,
Mike

This is not a "typical" problem with a Powermax1000. I have been using one for over 6 years......it will misfire when a consumable part is used up....or when air pressure is too low..... When an indicator light is active....then there is a problem. Refer to the manual or to Hypertherm's tech service to resolve.

Jim

Mine is happening with a fairly new machine with less than 45 minutes of actual cut time.
It happens about once out of every 250 pierces randomly. The last time it happened it was with a new set of finecut consumeables at about the 20th pierce. It them went on to cut the rest of the cutting fine. It has also happened later in the cutting cycle. It has happened in hot ambient and cold ambient. I was hoping it was the software.
It might not be a "typical" problem, but it isnt a very rare problem either.
This is an intermittant fleeting problem, the fault light just flashes on and then its gone.
How do you troubleshoot something like that? I dont have a telephone in the shop and cell doesnt work there either. I also dont have another hypertherm 1000 to try swapping parts with either.
Ill try calling hypertherm, but I think someone with the issue that is more repeatable will have more luck.

You can also email Hypertherm's tech service...let them know what light is momentarily flashing. With almost 400,000 plasma systems in the field it is highly probable that they have heard of your type of problem in the past!

I do occasionally get misfires.....when it happens I inspect the consumables.....of particular importance is the face of the electrode where it contacts the inside of the nozzle. If there is any carbonization (grey or blackened areas)....this will inhibit electrical contact....which will not alllow the short circuit spark that ionizes the air. Any grey or black indicates that there was foreign matter (not pure air...or perhaps the consumables had some dirt or grease on them when installed). With pure air, a clean torch and clean consumables there should not be much grey or black matter on the consumables.

If this discoloration is present....you can clean it off with a scotchbrite pad....replace the consumables....and they should work fine. It is also possible that the moving plunger inside the torch is sticking (again a sign of air contamination)...the torch can be disassembled and clened and re-assembled. There is a service manual for this system that covers these issues....you can find it on the Hypertherm website under the library tab....serch for service manuals and then choose the one specific for your system.

Best regards, Jim

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Originally Posted by jimcolt

I do occasionally get misfires.....when it happens I inspect the consumables.....of particular importance is the face of the electrode where it contacts the inside of the nozzle. If there is any carbonization (grey or blackened areas)....this will inhibit electrical contact....which will not alllow the short circuit spark that ionizes the air. Any grey or black indicates that there was foreign matter (not pure air...or perhaps the consumables had some dirt or grease on them when installed). With pure air, a clean torch and clean consumables there should not be much grey or black matter on the consumables.

If this discoloration is present....you can clean it off with a scotchbrite pad....replace the consumables....and they should work fine.

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Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info. I am indeed getting some buildup on the face of the electrode as well as the inside of the nozzle. When I would remove the consumables to clean them, I've been wiping off the face of the electrode with a rough pad as you mentioned, and trying to use a small screwdriver to chip the slag out of the inside of the nozzle. I thought that this buildup might have been contributing to the problem, but when I looked at the finecut consumables for my PM600, they looked the same way and yet cut fine on that machine, so I thought maybe this was normal, but it sounds like I need to revisit this idea...


I had thought that perhaps the buildup between the electrode and nozzle was blowback from the piercing operations, but based on your message I should be looking at the air supply?


I REALLY want to get a compressed air dryer; been waiting for the Harbor Freight one to go on sale and also keeping an eye on Craigslist/eBay but no luck yet.

Just to confirm, under normal circumstances, I should be getting no discoloration/blackening of the electrode tip or the inside of the nozzle? Are there photos anywhere showing what normal wear should look like and/or photos which show what the consumables look like when they are all used up?

Thanks!

John horible freight has a 20% off coupon available on their web site you could use to get one with. I hope it is still there anyway, it was last week.

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Originally Posted by plain ol Bill

John horible freight has a 20% off coupon available on their web site you could use to get one with. I hope it is still there anyway, it was last week.

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I think that was for the 12-13 only. I have been waiting for it to go on sale also so I can buy one. I would also like to know how much black buildup is normal or not.

Ryan

With perfectly clean air there will always be some signs of electrical arcing on the frontmost part of the electrode and the inside of the nozzle....over time this can affect starting of the torch.....some users report 1500 to 2000 starts while others get 300 to 400 starts. The high temperatures inside the torch break almost any form of contamination into carbon and oxides....which form a layer of less conductive material on the electrode and nozzle...affecting the starting process. Clean air is the best way to improve the performance and life of consumable parts in an air plasma torch of any brand!

If you notice metal particles (steel, aluminum or whatever you may be cutting) inside the nozzle or inside the shield (the shield is the part that covers and protects the nozzle....assuming you are using shielded consumables)...then you are piercing with the torch too close to the plate...or piercing material that is thicker than the torch is designed to pierce.

I will try to locate some good pictures of electrodes that are wearing as expected.

Jim

Hello all, new to the forum here and wanted to settle in with a little bit of hopeful advice. To add to Jimcolts advice.
A couple things to try.........number 1: do you seem to have this problem with only fine cut consumable sets or all others?
This may be something to try with your machine to see if it could be a tolerance difference in how the head reacts with the consumables. Number 2: A common occurance is people often tighten the retaining cap on the to torch head VERY tight. This will close the tolerance of the electrode to nozzle distance and not allow them to open far enough for proper air flow and plasma arc initiation. This will indeed generate a fault light and will most likely extinguish after 10 seconds or so.
As for the metal tab on the side of your retaining cap....this is used for a option called ohmic contact. This allows your torch height control(THC) to electrically sense the workpiece(by completing a circuit through a plasma interface) without having to dive into the workpiece until it sees a certain "stall force" based on voltage gain.
I hope this helps you and keep us posted.

Buy air dryer, you'll have less problems and don't overtight retaining cap.