Need help to dismantle/open WTO live tools

Hello,

I am looking for information and/or help with how to disassemble live tools for a Mori Seiki SL that we recently bought - it came with a number of live tools, but unfortunately almost all turned out to be useless.

Intends to try to repair these but completely lacks information on how to disassemble 90 degree holders (the straight ones are easier ). This primarily applies to WTO holders, please see picture.
Bearings, grease, etc. are no problem - but I do not want to destroy the holders in my attempt to open them.

Thanks in advace.
Regards
Saij

hy saij :) when opening dual axis live holders, you should begin with the longer shaft ( thus the one that holds the collet )

unscrew the part with 2 blind holes, from image 1840 : requires a special key ( like the ones used to close/open live centers ), but, if it's not in the house, then simply use a sharp pin to force it to rotate ( 'ding' for more infos ); this may damage it's surface, but, in the end, before putting it back again, you may use a file or sand paper, etc, to make it smooth again

unscrew the patterned part, from image 1842 : requires a more special key ( seems to be WTO specific ), but, again, if it's not in the house, then use a sharp pin :)

please be aware that those 2 parts may have fine threads, and might have been mounted using loctite ( or something ), thus it may be tricky/hard to open them, even with the right keys, simply because, after such looong time, they require much more torque to be unscrewed, compared to the one used to initialy mount them; this extra required torque may damage/bent/brake whatever keys you have, and even a sharp pin may not be enough; consider, as last option, to drill bigger holes, and use a bigger key on them ( 'ding' for more infos ); if they get too damaged during this process, you can always craft others, and, if the threads inside the live holder gets damage, you can correct them, by interpolation/helix on a mill ... so, nothing extra here :)

after you remove those 2, just inspect it's internal construction, and proceed futher ...

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all turned out to be useless

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please, what's the problem with them ? i suppose they don't rotate, or, if they do, then motion is not continuous

if they seem to be blocked, then, before begining to dismantle, check for a part that slides, right near the end that goes into the M spindle; some live holders have such a sliding part, that simply blocks the holder when it is not installed in the machine; when installed, this part get's pushed, and the holder unlocks; check by hand for any sliding part, but, it seems that yours are not that type, but, just check

okey, if they still seem to be blocked/stucked, then :
... if it is the gears, then :
...... after you dismantle them, when putting them back, try to use thin metal foils ( 0.01, 0.02, etc ) behind the gears, to increase the gearing mechanism play
...... or consider crafting in house gears; no need to go the extra mile with curved teeth, just use straigth; even if you consider buying a new set of gears, beside the price and the fact that they may not be available as spares, you may crash them if you don't know how to mount them; and, if you know how to mount them, then there is a big chance to know also how to craft them, so just make a pair :)
... if it's the bearings, then it should be an easy fix, at least simpler then dealing with the gears

is it better to have a blocked live holder, or a working one that is totally dismantled ? kindly :)

Hi and thanks for the reply.

The problem with the holder is a very large play - they are simply loose.

If you look at the video in this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqq5jGMc-EM you will see that the part with 2 holes rotates together with the spindle - I guess it is threaded on the spindle.

Has made a special key with two pins and it is possible to move this part in relation to the other end but it requires a lot of force - and even though you have turned it a few degrees, the force does not decrease ........ this made me hesitant to continue the operation - and in addition, one of the hardened pins went off .... ?

The big round top cover is a plastic one and will not move in any direction.

Regards
Saij

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The problem with the holder is a very large play - they are simply loose

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hello again, something may have get a bit loosed inside them, or maybe a shoulder got wear, leading to play

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and even though you have turned it a few degrees, the force does not decrease

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some damaged threads may behave that way, thus only turning a few

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one of the hardened pins went off

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machine that part, like to increase the holes size, without going deeper, then change the pins inside your key, and try again

also, try to use a sharp hardened tool, like, for example, get a tap shank, and grind it sharp, like a pencil; keep this tool tilted, and hammer it, in order to force that part to rotate; try to punch it at different locations across the surface; however, considering the size of that part, it may require a bit too much force, but maybe it works

by the way, how do you block the live tool, in order to try to rotate that part ? opposite chuck should be clamped inside a vice ( there is no flattened area, so just gently machine 2 flats, or even better use your chuck key, but block it somehow; don't block on the flats on the short axis, because all force will go through the gears, and may break them ), and lateral clamps should keep your toolholder steady; in this kind of rigid setup you should begin your 'trials'; also, your custom key should be blocked from the opposite site ( like use a block with small cleanrace ), in order to stop it from lifting; thus it would be ok, that the only force that you apply is in order to ensure rotation, and nothing else ( like preventing the keys from lifting, or the holder from moving )

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The big round top cover is a plastic one and will not move in any direction

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drill through it, then remove it

drill in such a manner, that you always control the position of the tool, thus to avoid suddenly to get on the other side into the gears; something like use a classical machine that always pulls the tool up, and simply push gentle ( don't rush, thus don't push harder, even if it is plastic ); use a small drill :) also, be careful, because plastic melts, and one may get fooled that the part is thicker; avoid drilling right in the middle point, or on the center line that is paralel with the longshaft; go near the ends of this cap, on an axis that is perpendicular on the longshaft, so to have a clue about thickness; then machine it using chain drilling, or just use something appropiate for that cap

hy, me again :) just had an idea a few seconds ago : to remove that metal cap, clamp the toolholder, inside a lathe, between centers, then machine it / kindly :)