Bob,
I like :D
Those should work very nicely.
So do you have it up and moving, or did you want to get the limits sorted first?
Thanks
Dave
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Bob,
I like :D
Those should work very nicely.
So do you have it up and moving, or did you want to get the limits sorted first?
Thanks
Dave
Thanks guys.
Not ready to move yet Dave. I don't even have the motors mounted at this point. Been working on the wiring diagram. I would really like to do the first test moves over the T-Day holiday even if the electronics are spread out on the bench.
Need to order a few parts though so I can get them in time. Need contactor, terminal strips, relays, switches, some connectors, cable, that kind of stuff. I haven't ordered the motor cable yet. Don't know whether to rig up something temporarily or just order some good stuff and hope I order enough. Probably rig something up. Wish the cable chain was of the 'pop open' design. Seems like threading the cable could be tedious.
But first movement would be a great milestone. I just hope I don't have anything 'over' adjusted and it grinds itself to pieces (the R&P parts mainly) lol.
BobL.
Bob,
Threading the wires is not as bad as it seems.
You can upen up the cable tray but i think I broke one catch so I stopped that and just shov the wires a second set of hand would also be useful.
My take on shortcuts on the spindle wiring is do it right the first time or you might end up chasing yourself.
Doing testing on bench makes lots of sense. Then you have a known working point to refer to.
If you are worrying about the RP being tight, loosen it off then work it in. You will be bringing the baby up with little steps not running the sprint first race. You built your first one so I know this will work out very well.
Dave
Bob,
Its been a month, just checking in to make sure that Santa has not kidnapped you.
Dave
Hey Dave,
LOL, you're close. This holiday season really snuck up on me. That combined with some of of life's craziness has left little time for the shop.
I've done a little here and there, made a few decisions. Next steps are to finish up the securing and aligning of the frame to the X-Rails and then I can get serious about mocking up the electronics and making some movement.
I should get a couple of solid days in the shop next week as it turns out.
I hope everyone on the forum has a fantastic holiday season and I WILL say
Merry Christmas to all !!
Hope Santa is good to us all and there's some shiny new CNC related presents under your tree (I've got it on good authority there may be a PC 890 Router and some precision collets under ours :)
Have fun, be safe.
BobL.
Ok, the holidays were great but now it's back to work on the build.
A few things actually did get done over the holidays in very short stints.
I got some small 1/4" Alum. Plates off of Ebay. I used them to attach the XYZ cross beams to the frame. I used 3 on each cross beam.
Attachment 149343
I also ordered 4 80mm lengths of HFS 4080 extrusions to use for supports on the rotary end. This makes the ends of these short pieces exactly the same height as the cross beams so when I need to extend the cutting table to the full length of the machine all will be well.
I took 8 of the double 90 degree brackets and slotted out the hole on one side so they sit squarely on the frame beams ( the XYZ X axis rails are about 1/4" offset from the frame beams). That's what I'm trying to show in the closeup of one of the short extrusions.
Attachment 149341
Got my PC 890 router for Christmas along with a set of precision collets for it :) Those precisions collets look great and there is no doubt that my runout will be so much less with this setup than the one I'm using, which is a Dewalt laminate trimmer with a split cylinder reducer for 1/8" bits. Can't wait.
Attachment 149342
So, as far as the the frame is concerned what's left with that is to do some final measurments on the the parallelism of the XYZ X rails and do a whole lot of bolt checking/tightening. It is really amazing how many bolts I've screwed into this thing. I don't know exactly but it is literally hundreds.
BobL.
As far as the electronics go, I do have a rudimentary wiring digram. It needs some work but is hopefully far enough along to at least do some preliminary movement.
I had picked up a nice solid enclosure from a suplus center for my control box but the decision has been made not to use it. We could probably cram everything in there, but it would be awkward and difficult to work on.
As far as the control box location goes, that ended up being somewhat of a compromise. Due to the location in the shop that this thing will sit, along with the rotary axis taking up one end the control box needs to be accessed from the side of the machine. I don't like the fact that the control box is directly under the path of the moving gantry. I sure hate to get smacked with one of these things:
Attachment 149349
I built a slide out shelf that the control box will sit on. Hopefully this will work.
Attachment 149350
Since I can't use the enclosure I was going to use I guess I'm going to build one out of wood. Easy enough to do, but won't provide any electrical sheilding. I thought of lining it with aluminum flashing or even just using some metal duct tape.
Will doing this provide any advantage sheilding wise?
Anyhow, the current plan is to mock up the control box with basically just a mounting board and a front panel. This will allow great access and allow me to make what I'm sure is going to be tons of wiring changes before the final design. Especially considering I've got the rotary access to do and some doo-dads I want to add to the machine.
Then once the control box is working and stable I'll know exactly how do the final control box configuration. Ideally I think it would be great if this machine could be used to cut it's own control box panel and whatnot.
Well, that's it for now. It sure is great to be back on the build though :banana:
BobL.
Bob,
Looking good.
Mounting all the electronics on a sub panel of metal will make a nice sub assembly and give to a place to have a common AC ground.
I just love your base. Its going to be so cool once its all together.
Happy New Year.
Dave
Thanks Dave. I hope the frame works as well as it looks :)
Spent the last couple of hours removing screws, applying thread lock, tightening them down and marking them so I know which have been done.
I taped a digital gauge to a steel ruler and used that to check how parallel the X rails are.
Attachment 149364 Attachment 149363
Not too bad I don't think. As I was editing the photo I realized I didn't even try to adjust the rotary end, so I could tweak that one. I don't think I'll mess with the others. Here's the results:
Attachment 149365
Glad that's done as these old bones don't take to crawling around that frame while sitting/kneeling/crouching/etc on the concrete floor of the garage.
This desk chair is getting comfortable, better get back out there :)
BobL.
With the frame more or less complete I can move on to the Control Box (CB) prototype.
When we were deciding where the CB would go, I cut a scrap piece of 3/4" plywood (from a packing crate). At the front of this board I mounted a panel canted at a 15 degree (I think) angle. To see if the front panel would be big enough we tried a cutout layout.
Attachment 149432
When I started laying parts in it, it quickly ceased to seem spacious. I figured I could save some space by mounting the power supply vertically on one wall. So I needed a wall. And I needed something for a back panel. So I decided to whip up another CB.
Attachment 149433
I also got the PMDX Geko motherboard mounted to a heatsink. I had ordered a heatsink off of EBay and it ended up being just short of being long enough so I cut a piece of aluminum and mounted the heatsink to it with 9 6-32 screws with thermal compound between them. The Geko manual says you should use a heatsink when operating at 3 amp or higher (drives support 7 amps). I'll only be driving around 3.5 amps so it should be ok.
Next is some head scratchin' deciding how to lay it out and what parts I'm missing to get to the point of first movement.
BobL.
My plan is to get just enough connected in the CB protoype to get first movement and verify the build.
I still need to drill holes for mounting my homemade homing switches.
@Dave/Will...
Are you guys happy with the locations you chose? Any recommendations?
First movement can occur without them but need to do that.
Anyhow, I'm going to add a lot of extras. Some acutally usefull, some because the geek in me comes out at times like this.
The panel meters shown in the previous pic include an amp meter, thermometer and three volt meters.
I'm not sure where I want to hook up the amp meter to. I'm thinking of hooking it up to the power supply input.
Not sure whether I'll just monitor the inside temp of the CB or attach the probe to one of the Gekos.
Aslo planned are the following:
---Touch probe plate and second touch plate (mounted) for tool changes.
---Provision for touch probe. I already have a mechanical probe for it.
---Laser crosshairs for positioning. I got some but not sure now if there the right ones. Based on a thread here.
---I brought a mini E-Stop I would like to mount somewhere.
---I've got some donut shaped led lights to use as a spindle light but this one might not happen.
---Provisions for mounting my wood lathe chuck on the table for inlay work.
---Camera mount. I have a wireless camera I so I can watch jobs cut. It's currently mounted off machine but that machine is a moving table. I guess It doesn't NEED to be mounted on the gantry. We'll see.
So, as you can see there's going to be some frilly dressing.
Anybody care to add anything to my list for me?
Looking forward to first movement though :)
Thanks for looking.
BobL.
Bob,
First off your build is looking great. Like Dave said I like your frame. The 80/20 or similar is the way to go. Cost high but time saved is price LESS. So far the location for my limits is working good. Your really putting a lot of extra design and other small details in your build. Good job. I have not posted yet but the support from XYZ after has been great. I got a new screw and ball nut, installed and seams to have fixed many of the problems I was having. Thanks to Glen at XYZ for your help. We are all learning here but want a machine that is productive. The biggest thing we all face is getting it fine tuned. All ideas welcome.... Really I want ideas. Bob let me know if you want any other ideas.
Will
Thanks much Will.
I didn't know you had issues that required replacing a screw and nut. I know Dave had issues with one of his.
Care to elaborate on what your problem was so I can be on the look out for it?
BobL.
Got a little bit more done on the control box prototype today. Was my first day back at work.
No more shop time til Sunday now.
Attachment 149532
Attachment 149533
The PMDX breakout board I'm using will host a SmoothStepper as a daughter board. I would really like to go that route but am really leary of noise issues with it, especially with the wooden box I'm going to use. At over $150 it can be a pricey gamble.
Would a metal shield over that board guarantee noise immunity if there were issues?
Sure seems like my shop is in some kind of temporal anomily when 2 hours seems like 30 minutes. But still great to be back at it :)
BobL.
When I designed my frame I chose to use Misumi Extrusions. Their prices were decent and their online configuration tool is great. I was able to download the 3d cad file of choice of each piece I configured.
Anyow, at the time I submitted my order they were running a special of up to $150 credit for your first orders. I just got confirmation that I now carry a $150 credit there.
Cooool ! :)
Too bad they don't sell SmoothSteppers huh? :violin:
BobL.
I collected some of the pieces and materials I'm planning on using for the contstruction of the Rotary Axis and clamped them to the frame.
Attachment 149780
I have spent a lot of time thinking of how I could achieve a tailstock mounting design to allow for the flexability I was after. I have a couple of ideas, but nothing great, simple or graceful.
I used the mock-up to do some preliminary measurments of the maximum length of workpiece I could likely achieve.
Attachment 149781
I knew I wasn't going to get much in the way of spindle length (as it were) but I was hoping for 16". It looks like with all things considered it could be a low as 12".
I liked the design with the rotary along the Y axis (B) but knew it was against convention. This can also cause issues with some software. I know in some cases there is a work around, but I don't know much about this stuff yet.
This design did however provide full access to the rotary axis for stock mounting and such and it provided the most compact footprint. Boy, this would me a cool set up on a 4" wide machine.
Wiring it up in this position would be a little easier also.
But....
I'm thinking now of re-orienting it along the traditional axis of choice, X (normally an A axis I think, but this has two X motors, whatever).
This would sure make the design of an adjustable tailstock contraption MUCH simpler.
An 'A' rotary axis would give me maybe 15"-16" of large diameter turning length, but would also allow 3 feet plus of small diameter spidle lentgh.
This would come at the expense of a larger footprint.
Another advantage is there would be better (stronger) support for the rotary table assembly. Just that rotary table weighs in at over 60 lbs !
I guess just typing this out is making the decision rather obvious. But, that's whats happening.
Thanks for reading and please, comments/questions/suggestions are welcome.
BobL.
Bob,
Your build still looking good. Things always change when you start building.
The problems I had was too much backlash. The new screw and nut seam to have made it better. Will let you know if it changes.
Will
Hey Will,
I assumed it was backlash, but it also sounds like it didn't become evident until you used it? Was it evident when you cut circles or what? How bad was it?
I sure hope mine is ok, really hate to go through the hassle of it.
Thanks for the info.
BobL.
Bob,
You have been busy I see. :D
The email updates have not been coming through.
I see your control box is going to have all the bells and whistles.
With regard to the Smooth Stepper, I have heard that they are field testing the Ethernet version. I would hold out for that one. It does sound like Will has not had many issues with his USB one. I have not tried out the fix that Jeff asked me to test out. I figure since my machine seem to be working, why should I open it up and mess with things. I don't use the router as much as I would like to but, I want it to work when I do.
Project right now is reorganizing my indoor shop and moving stuff outdoors so I have enough room to rip apart my KX3 mill and fix a couple of major problems with it.
Dave
After scrounging together some parts for the prototype CB I began wiring it up today.
I hope I'm not screwing it up too bad. In the picture below you can see the shunt resistor for the panel mounted amp meter.
Does this look right?
The terminal blocks will feed the Geko drives.
Attachment 149906
I have a longer cable coming for the PMDX-134 Geko motherboard to connect to the PMDX-126 below it.
Attachment 149908
In the picture below the outlet nearest the PMDX stuff will feed the router. The double box contains a connector to feed the box and next to it is a switch. Above the switch is a fuse. I probably should have wired up the fust before the switch.
Which way is correct?
Attachment 149907
Next I need to hook up the 120v contactor coil connections via the e-stop circuit.
BobL.
When I was connecting the DC out of the PS to the terminal blocks it dawned on me that each driver should have it's own supply (no daisy chaining), so, since I was on a roll I installed jumpers so all the motors were fed from the two terminal strips.
Then..
Later when I thought about it I realized that the PMDX-134 Geko board is supplied by a single pair. So I pulled out the jumpers and used the terminal blocks for 115v supply for the cabinet and to break out the contactor coil wires.
Attachment 149954
I also installed the ground bar and some basic support for the panel which will provide cable support.
Attachment 149955
I chose to mount the equipment on the side walls not only for saving space but also to seperate the power side from the logic side in case I need some sheilding. If I construct the final box with this in mind I will make access provisions. As it is now I have to unscrew a side panel.
BobL.
After considering ways of routing the wiring and the probable necessity of better access without undue disruption of some wiring, I rolocated things so one side panel is removable without disturbing anything.
Attachment 150065 Attachment 150066
The aluminum angle is screwed to the ground bar on two legs. I also recieved the longer cables I needed. PMDX sure doesn't mess around getting your orders out.
I've also done a lot of thinking on the rotary axis re-design and I think I'm starting to settle on one. I need to do some measurements and get something down on paper (at least) then I'll post it and see what ya'll think.
No more shop time until Sunday but will do some more thinking on the rotary.
BobL.
Bob,
Looking good.
Yes Steve does a good job at PMDX.
Dave
Thanks Dave.
Still poking along on the Control Box. I know the thing is starting to look ratty and I'm taking a few steps back re-arranging things, but...
I get more done if I just charge ahead sometimes, even it that means I'll be doing it twice. I can be a bit of a perfectionist and a procrastinator at times and that combination can make it hard to get a job started sometimes, let alone finishing it :)
I'll try to post some pics tonight.
On the rotary, I've been spending a fair ammount of time contemplating it. I really would have liked to have kept the open-ended design with the rotary axis being along the Y axis. Loading stock or work pieces would have been so much easier. That could be an issue on the way I have to go. I thought about incorporationg hinges along one vetical corner to allow access for maintenance, but I don't see it helping with stock loading.
So, I'll forgo the hinges for now I guess. I've done some sketches on paper but haven't cadded anything up. I'll try to at least scan some pencil drawings some time to post as I really would like some input from the folks that know what they're doing.
Later,
BobL.
Hi Bob,
Like Dave have not been getting updates but it still is looking good. Your putting a lot od design and hours of work in your controll box. Should be good when finished.
My backlash became a problem after I was cutting. Worked good at first but got real bad with more cuts. I would retune the machine all the time but could still not get correct measurements. It seams to be working good now as I have done a lot of cutting. I will let you know if it changes.
Will
Thanks Will. This is just a temporary control box. I can make a mess in it while I figure out all the wiring into and out of it. This way I can get some movement and add things until it's all working like I want it. Then I will build the permanent one and hopefully this machine can cut it's own :)
Thanks for this info. I have to wonder if anybody has yet gottn one without issues. I don't get a warm fuzzy on my odds at this point. The ball nut on my Y axis was shipped very loose. I wonder if they did that on purpose so a hard knock to the shipping container wouldn't transmit the sock to the ball screw?
Not to be personal, but were your nuts loose ? :eek:
Anyhow, it seems like the problem was obvious when it happened so not much I can do but keep on truckin'.
I do appreciate the info though.
Thanks,
BobL.
I've been working on the control box. Seems slow going at times, but it's coming along.
I split the control panel so the SuperPID speed controller could remain stationary and have it's display protected.
Attachment 150560Attachment 150561
I unceromoniously started scavenging parts from my old machine. I reused some connectors for the prototype but have some new ones for the real box.
Attachment 150562
I also used two Keling stepper drivers from the old machine. One of these will run the Rotary Table and the other one can be used to adjust the vertical height of the rotary axis.
Attachment 150564Attachment 150563
The Gekos will be used for the X/Y/Z motors.
Attachment 150565Attachment 150566
That's it for now, thanks for looking.
BobL.
Bob,
That is looking really nice. Keep posting the pictures.
We want to see some wood chips soon. ;-)
Dave
Thanks Dave.
No time spent in the shop this weekend as it turns out.
Looking forward to first movement :)
BobL.
Don't ask me why I put the power switch on the BACK of the control panel.
Moved that to the front and re-wired the fuse so the fuse is before the switch.
Attachment 150984
I added a panel support I found on the clearance table by the front door of my local hardware store.
Attachment 150982
I added a PC power supply for the 5/12 volt supplies.
Attachment 150983Attachment 150985Attachment 150986
I'm trying to add terminal strips on things I think I might have to check/change as I feed things in and out of the box. I know it's really starting to look a mess and kind of slapped together. Prolly cuz it has been :)
I know this box is temporary and so I've been taking all kinds of liberties with the construction. Once I get everyting sorted out it will be MUCH easier to come up with a layout that will work. And of course I will do a much better job with the real one.
It seems slow going though this part, I guess because progress is not as obvious as when you're bolting chunks of extrusions together ;)
BobL.
Bob,
It looks like its almost ready for lift off.
:D
Dave
@Dave---getting closer and getting anxious :)
After a couple of hitches I've got things straightened out and am down to just a few sets of wires to complete the initial configuration.
I was going to just run the Keling drives from the 50 volt supply but that is their absolute Max rating. I was going to use it anyway even if it was just to validate the wiring. In the end I decided to cram another power supply in to feed the Keling drives. The only place left was behing the front panel. If I don't have some noise issues I'll sure be suprised.
Attachment 151603Attachment 151604
I mounted the PP ribbon cables through the back and added some audio jacks to carry the home switches, touch probes and the RPM sensor for the SuperPID speed control.
Also added a couple of fans.
Attachment 151605Attachment 151606
So what's left is:
--Front panel meter inputs to voltage monitoring points and to the shunt resistor for the amp meter. (wires are run from the front panel already)
--Audio jacks on back panel to the PMDX for home switches/touch probes (cables are run and ready to be hooked up to the PMDX)
--Step/Dir signals from PMDX to Keling drives. (Not run yet.)
--Add the current set resistors to the Gekos (on hand for installation)
I left some extra wires to facilitate additions/changes.
Attachment 151607
After that I plan on metering out all my connections and capture/verify everyting on my wiring diagram.
Then I will develop a power up plan and hope all the magic smoke stays in everyting :)
BobL.
Bob,
That looks like controlls for a space ship. Hope all goes well when you fire it up. My machine has been going well.
Will
Bob,
Hopefully launch will be more successful than some of NASA and it's predecessors ones. ;-)
Dave
My time in the shop has been erratic but I have managed some progress. I meant to take more pictures along the way, but I wanted to peck at the build when I had a chance.
I finished the Control Box basic wiring. 6 Axii (?) are wired from the parallel ports (2), through the breakout board/drivers and available at the back panel.
The router speed sensor cable and and home switches input are wired though to the back also.
Power for the router via the SuperPID is available.
There are extra connectors on the back and some cabling in place to allow for the easy addition of input/outputs once I get going.
Attachment 152864Attachment 152863
I buzzed out each wire per my wiring diagram and darkened the checked paths on the drawing. I did realize I made one major bone-headed error in design. I had everything running through the main contactor, including the PMDX breakout board that was controlling the contactor.....DUH (chair)
Anyhow got that rewired. The contactor now only switches the two motor power supplies. I plugged it in, crossed my fingers and hit the switch. I am very glad to report all the magic smoke is still safely tucked inside where it belongs. I do have one bad panel meter but have already ordered two replacements. I still need to make a top cover for the control box.
(sorry bout the picture but it is proof it survived the initial power on :) )
Attachment 152866Attachment 152867
We discussed earlier on the state of assembly our various machines were in when recieved. I mentioned that my 'Y' Axis ball nut was loose and wondered at the time if it was intentional.
Well, I went to tighten them and to do that I had to remove the 'Z' Axis carriage. The screws that held that in were thread locked, so I'm assumming the loose ball nut was an oversight.
Anyhow, got that tightened.
I adjusted that length of the shelf that supports the cable chain and tightend that stuff down.
Attachment 152868Attachment 152869
As you can see above the motor sported bare wires. I wanted to connectorize them and looked around for something to use as a potting form with the connectors I got from PMDX. (Those are pretty nice connectors for the price BTW). I found some PVC threaded reducers that fit the PMDX connector threads :)
I turned the threads off on the lathe and soldered the wires up in bipolar parallel fashion. I had already created a spreadsheet that tracked the wiring by connector number, pin number , axis function, cable number, wire color, etc. That was really nice to have as I went along.
Attachment 152871Attachment 152870
I also modified the PC890 router for the SuperPid by removing the original speed control and gluing the sensor tube in the top. The sensor is aimed down at the top of the motor shaft which was painted half black/half white.
I mounted the AC box for the router power on the gantry and ran the power cable.
Attachment 152872Attachment 152873Attachment 152874
I drilled holes in the gantry side for the motor and home switch cables. I still need to drill holes for the switches themselves.
I've got the motor cables and home switch wires run.
Attachment 152875Attachment 152876
Seems like I'm forgetting to mention something but can't think of it at the moment. Anyhow, we are getting closer and closer to first movement :banana:
BobL.
Bob,
Good to see your back at it. See a few similar things in your build as mine. Hope I gave you a few ideas. It's great to learn from others. Thank's Dave. Keep at it and soon you will have chips all over. Then it's all about dust controll. As for mine.... It works good for getting most od the chips. Much better than my old machine. Keep us posted.
Will
Hey Will,
Yeah it's coming along. And yes, I've gotten some good ideas from you and Dave too. No sense in re-inventing the wheel eh?
Thanks,
BobL.