Any model specific suggestions MacTech54 or Ger21?
Adam,
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Any model specific suggestions MacTech54 or Ger21?
Adam,
I'm not going to recommend something I've never used. These look pretty good, but are pricey.
GMT Air Cooled CNC Spindle 2.2kW 220/380V 18000 RPM High Torque S | Air Cooled Spindles
Plus who ever brought a spindle like this would need a 600Hz VFD this is too much money for a basic spindle like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by ger21
For that price I'd want runout of less than 0.005mm not "less than 0.02mm"
I can get less than 0.01mm on my Sieg X2!
Gerry, what are you currently running? and what about that unit you've been eyeballing? I'm interested in your opinion since you have considerably more knowledge than I and certainly would make a better buying choice. I've looked at GMT but I thought they were just an over priced China model, maybe I misjudged.
mactec54, and yourself what would you recommend? I've read a number of threads where you've commented about the inner workings and seem to have a great understanding and knowledge as well but I didn't see many suggestions on units to buy.
I'm obviously not buying for a 20K machine and anything above the Chinese low end would be great.
I can't find price sheets on HSD models or some of the other mid-range? items so who knows how expensive they are...
Adam,
I have a couple of cheap round air cooled spindles on a test bench, but haven't used them on a machine to cut anything. I paid $200 each for them, and am happy so far.
My take is that you are rolling the dice with any cheap chinese spindle from ebay or Amazon, but your odds are good that they'll be pretty good, and last a long time.
I don't really have any experience with any others so my opinion probably isn't worth much. :)
The spindles that CNC Router Parts sells are supposed to be pretty good. As with UGRA, you pay a premium to buy from a known, quality reseller that supports them.
A 2.2kw HSD will run between $1500-$1800.
OK, a few words from me as well... I know not everybody agree with what I will say, but hey, that's the Internet world... so I don't care.
I agree with Gerry, would not recommend ANYTHING I never used and have no experience with, not even a coffee machine. But... chances are good that unless you mess it up, you can basically buy ANY spindle motor and you will be happy with. You must however understand what you need, how you want to use your spindle and for which purpose. Are you going to mill a lot of carbon fibre? In that case just skip any thoughts about air cooled spindle (unless you want to die young). Is it stainless steel you are going to use it on with 50mm dia mill bits? If not then why do you think you will EVER need 1.5k rpm? Are you going to use it to earn your daily bread with and will run it H24/7, or is it just for hobby and occasional weekend use? Are you going to use it as most hobby people do, on wood, PCB, plastics and occasional aluminium? In that case you will NOT need anything less than 6krpm, at least not very often and not much lower, and I dare say that it is perfectly fine to use these spindles, even air cooled, down to 6k rpm and even a bit below. I am using mine down to 4800rpm for drilling in aluminium and plastics with absolutely ZERO problems. My recommendation is that your best bet is a 400Hz 24krpm motor. It will most probably have a specified minimum rpm of 6k (even my air cooled 65mm diameter motor has that) and you'll have more benefit of the the upper rpm range than the lower, below 6000rpm, unless your aim is to work on steel and stainless all day, but in that case you need a different machine all together, not just a spindle.
So my opinion is, that there are more benefits in spending a bit extra on a good quality VFD, which really can deliver what is in the specs and is well documented and have professional support if needed, than buying a cheapo VFD and an expensive spindle. Having a good VFD means you'll KNOW you get what you want, and there is a good likelihood that you'll manage to configure it without much trouble and less risk of blowing it, or the spindle, or both up due to misconfiguration, or that you can trim the adjustments for your needs with the help of the manual. Don't worry about runout and other nerdy things, unless you really need extreme precision, in which case you should also be ready to buy very high quality collets, drill and mill bits AND trim your machine, as well as your software extremely well, take care of tool wear and so on, otherwise there is no point. Again, there is more benefit in spending time on properly aligning/squaring the machine you are using and buying reasonably good quality cutters than an expensive spindle which may promise you a runout you never can measure anyway, so you have no idea if it is true or not, and even if you know it is true, you have no use for it.
What I am using is a 1.5kW ER11, 65mm diameter air cooled spindle. I have used it for about two years now, I don't use it H24/7 but use it for milling, drilling and engraving plastics (mostly POM), aluminium and PCB. It have been working well for my needs and never failed, stalled, overheated or caused any other issues ever since I installed it. When I am drilling aluminium or using large drill bits, some times run it as slow as 4800rpm but always around 6000rpm. Most drilling works are made below 12k rpm, engraving, drilling and milling PCB between 16-24k rpm, milling aluminium around 16-18k rpm (no problems with welding), so basically I am using the whole range between min and max rpm. If this motor EVER dies on me I will most likely buy a larger one, 80mm diameter with ER16 but still only 1.5kW and DEFINITELY air cooled. Probably would buy a square one, but only because they look better and eliminate the need of a spindle bracket. I don't believe they are better cooled, except if they have active cooling with a separate fan, but I don't think I'll go for that solution because my motor have NEVER EVER overheated, not even after hours of operation. This is probably also an advantage of the use of quality VFD I mentioned above, not just the cooling efficiency. I am not 100% sure of this, but it is very much likely the case.
So, first thing first, you must decide what you want to use the spindle for, first AFTER that you can decide the power needs, type (air vs. water cooled), min max rpm and so on. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, so it is almost impossible to recommend anything other than what we have or have experience with, and even that must be taken with a grain of salt because one may be lucky, or unlucky, so just because a person have some experience it does not mean his/hers experience is valid for everyone. We have what we have because we, at one stage made our home work and came to the conclusion that what we have is what we needed.
Good luck. Conclusion: my advice is buy a quality VFD and a cheap 400Hz 24k rpm motor.
Without knowing what you are wanting to do with the Spindle you want, or what your machine is, no body can recommend, what spindle you should have, there is no point in having a quality Spindle if your machine can't is not built to handle itQuote:
Originally Posted by adam_m
Most of my projects will be in wood and carving but a few in aluminum.
Thanks for the insight, as always I can trust that I'll get an honest answer from the forum members.
I think I've been talked down off the ledge of investing large dollars into a spindle but maybe a few more into the VFD makes sense. I'm leaning now towards a square body 2.2KW ER25 something like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-Spind...wAAOSwmZFZpyV7
and maybe a Delta https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-VFD-A...EAAOSw66pZi5Fy or a GE https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-GE-Fuji...gAAOSwSdZWdcw0 or Hitachi https://www.ebay.com/itm/HITACHI-NES...gAAOSwQWxbDCad I'm not sure who else makes reliable VFD's??
Do you have a VFD preference?
Adam,
That's the spindle I'd probably buy if I were to upgrade mine.
But again, I have no experience with it at all.
For a few $$ more, you can get a more powerful version.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5KW-1-92N...8AAOSwWxNYwopx
It's probably a lot heavier, though.
I'm happy with my Huanyang VFD, and would definitely buy another one.
I think even regarding VFD, the preference is what people have and if they are happy with or not. Most people are happy with the one they have, and only a few have USER experience from more than one or two brand. Personally I use Bosch Rexroth which I am happy with, so I would not hesitate buying a new one. Otherwise I looked at Hitachi, Schneider and some more but don't remember exactly why I ended up with Bosch, except that my experience with everything with a Bosch label on it is positive plus that I liked the manual because it was well written and very promising, as always with Bosch, so I bought one. No regrets, it gave me what I wanted. I dismissed Huanyang very early because it does not provide Modbus and the manual was totally Chinglish, very unclear and poorly written and I did not trust their electrical safety or quality norms, so I have very early decided to buy ONLY real brand, which I knew I can trust. So for me, Hitachi, Shcneider, Bosch, Mitsubishi, Omron, Siemens... and similar real brands which was interesting.
Looks to be a good spindle has the all the correct specs, any of the VFD Drives they are all good brand names, for a longer life get a larger Hp rated VFD than the spindle ratingQuote:
Originally Posted by adam_m
Why air cooled