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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Leadshine > MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd
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  1. #1
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    Jun 2014
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    MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Does anyone have any idea on how to interface the MX4660 to the 2.2 KW Huanyang VFD and control it in Mach3?

    Thanks for any help

  2. #2
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    Jun 2014
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    I found this if it helps anyone else.Attachment 306550

  3. #3
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    I have the same setup, and I have mine connected this same way, however I can only get 9.8k RPM from Mach3 control of the spindle. I can get the full 24k when manually controlling it.

    Did you get everything setup and running at or at least close to the 24k rpm, I am fine with even 18-20k but less than 10 just is not enough.

    --Paul

  4. #4
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Joe2014 was really helpful and sent me his schematic as well as link the relay setup he used . I will ask if he mind that I share it.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2014
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    This is from Joe2014
    Using the MX4660 Controller with a VFD

    The 6 outputs of the MX4660 are each an optical isolator in series with a 1,000 ohm resistor and this limits how the outputs can be used. If you want to control a device that uses 12 volts, the 1,000 ohm series resistor limits you to a maximum of 12 ma current, probably not enough to do much more than light up an LED. To use the outputs to control the Forward and Reverse signals of a VFD you will need to add some type of driver device, typically a relay with a driver on the coil side since the 12 ma output is not enough to reliably control even a small relay.

    I used a simple relay driver board similar to New 4 Channel 5V Relay Module Board Shield for Pic AVR DSP Arm MCU Arduino H | eBay . These are quite small and inexpensive, under $3.00 for a quad relay board and the 4 relays not only let you control a VFD using 2 of the relay circuits but you will also have an additional 2 circuits to control a mist pump, dust extractor or spindle cooling system. The relay board also provides isolation protection for the MX controller which is important since you don’t want to destroy such an expensive device. You could also go with just a similar 2 relay board if all you want to do is control the VFD.Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Quote Originally Posted by pmany View Post
    I have the same setup, and I have mine connected this same way, however I can only get 9.8k RPM from Mach3 control of the spindle. I can get the full 24k when manually controlling it.

    Did you get everything setup and running at or at least close to the 24k rpm, I am fine with even 18-20k but less than 10 just is not enough.

    --Paul
    Sounds like you are close. Check the following VFD settings:

    PD070: 0 (0 – 10 volt analog)
    PD072: 400 (higher analog frequency)

    Also verify your MACH3 Pulley values are set with a top RPM of 24,000.

    If you are still having problems you can check the analog voltage going to the VFD when you have MACH3 set at 24,000 rpm. You should see about 8.6 volts. If much lower, the problem is with the MACH configuration, otherwise there is something not correct with your VFD setup.

    Joe

  7. #7
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    My PD070 is 0 and 72 is 400
    The pulley value is at 24,000
    and I am seeing the ~8.X voltage

    It seems like I have everything setup correctly, but am missing something somewhere.


    I did find this bit of documentation:
    Along with this is how to configure Mach3.




    however I am not sure where I should connect the Blue and Blue white to my VFD.



    I also have a jumper between the FOR, and DCM(Com) without that Mach3 does not control the spindle at all. As per http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...0&d=1454345934

  8. #8
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Quote Originally Posted by pmany View Post
    My PD070 is 0 and 72 is 400
    The pulley value is at 24,000
    and I am seeing the ~8.X voltage

    It seems like I have everything setup correctly, but am missing something somewhere.


    I did find this bit of documentation:
    Along with this is how to configure Mach3.




    however I am not sure where I should connect the Blue and Blue white to my VFD.



    I also have a jumper between the FOR, and DCM(Com) without that Mach3 does not control the spindle at all. As per http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...0&d=1454345934
    I would not recommend connecting the digital outputs of the MX4660 directly to the VFD Forward or Reverse inputs, see the earlier post by Dekman. The documentation I have for the Huanyang VFD does not state the electrical characteristics of the FOR and REV Multi-Input signals. They may be buffered and only require a small current or they may be connected directly to higher current relays in the VFD. I don’t know and rather than risk damaging the MX4660 I opted to use a separate relay control board that I know has buffered inputs and won’t damage the MX4660.

    If the VFD FOR input is low current and buffered then you would connect the MX4660 Output+ to the VFD DCM connector and the Output- to the VFD FOR connector. Similar for the REV signal, the Output+ to the VFD DCM and the Output- to the VFD REV connector. Do this at your own risk, it may or may not work, all depends on how much current the FOR and REV signals require. Also, if the VFD inputs go directly to an onboard relay coil that does not have a back EMF suppressing diode, you could damage the MX4660 output. If we had more detailed documentation or a schematic for the VFD we could determine if it is safe to directly connect, otherwise the safe route is to use a relay control board as described in the earlier post.

    If you are still stuck with the low spindle speed I could post all (or most) of my VFD settings, will take a while to heat up the garage and get all the values, 16 degrees outside right now.

  9. #9
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    I have these two relays, would either of them work?

    Attachment 307866
    Attachment 307864

    The electronic side of this project has not gone so great, I am much better at the mechanical end of things.
    I do not want to do anything that could damage something again. I have already had to replace both the VFD and Spindle due to my ignorance in how they worked, it was an expensive lesson.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to help me

    --Paul Myers

  10. #10
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    So I just ordered the relay you had recommended to Dekman, other than having to wait for the shipping time, spending another 2.50$ is pretty much nothing compared to what I have in it so far.

    I would like to control my spindle coolers water pump from Mach3, so the extra relays would be good.

  11. #11
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Something else to try regarding your speed problem: I noticed in an earlier post you included an image that had the MACH3 configuration for the “Spindle Setup” set to “Step/Dir Motor” in the “Motor Control” section. I’m using the “PWM Control” option rather than the “Step/Dir Motor” which I think is more for a DC type speed controller. You might want to try the “PWM Control” option. I also have my “PWM Base Freq” set to 25 and a “Minimum PWM” set to 1.

    Although, you said you were getting 8.x volts on the VFD input so the above probably isn't going to help.

  12. #12
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    24216

    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Quote Originally Posted by pmany View Post
    I have these two relays, would either of them work?

    [--Paul Myers
    Those are high (25amp) and AC output.
    If running the 20krpm spindles, do not run lower than 7200rpm otherwise they will burn out.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  13. #13
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe2014 View Post
    Something else to try regarding your speed problem: I noticed in an earlier post you included an image that had the MACH3 configuration for the “Spindle Setup” set to “Step/Dir Motor” in the “Motor Control” section. I’m using the “PWM Control” option rather than the “Step/Dir Motor” which I think is more for a DC type speed controller. You might want to try the “PWM Control” option. I also have my “PWM Base Freq” set to 25 and a “Minimum PWM” set to 1.

    Although, you said you were getting 8.x volts on the VFD input so the above probably isn't going to help.

    I just copied down the first 160 parameters of my Huanyang Inverter configuration. When I installed the VFD I reset it to factory defaults and then changed only a few of the parameters. The parameters I changed are marked with an asterisk. My spindle setup is a 220 volt mains Huanyang VFD controlling a 2.2 kw, 24,000 rpm water cooled spindle. I'm using MACH3 to control the VFD, both speed and direction. I'm using the analog 0 - 10 volt signal for speed control. My controller consists of an ESS Smooth Stepper and an MX4660 driver.

    These settings are working properly for me

    I'll attach a JPG with my VFD settings, use at your own risk.

  14. #14
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    I will see how those compare to mine when I get a chance.
    That sounds the same as my setup, though I am using a serial cable only, though I should get an ESS Smooth Stepper.

    I had some old Desktops sitting around that work perfect for this through.

  15. #15
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Joe2014, Thank you so much for the list of settings and the help you have given, only a few of them I am not comfortable changing, they are noted inline.

    I put your image up into a Google doc, I will later update that with what I end up running: VFD Settings

    I had gone through almost all of these with my first VFD, I obviously did not do that properly with the new one (first one had the neutral wire connected along with both hots, turns out that is WRONG. Cost both the spindle and the VFD!)

    I found the following differences:
    PD# Function Mine was Reset to
    3 Main Frequency 100 200
    7 min. Frequency .5 20
    9 Intermediate Voltage 13 15
    10 Min Voltage 6.5 8
    14 Accel. Time 1 20 10
    15 Decel. Time 1 20 10
    41 Carrier frequency 3 Did not change not clear enough understanding to change yet
    48 SPL(D5) 24 expected 28,(24= Low Speed, 28=DOWN function) Did not change not clear enough understanding to change yet
    71 Analog FilteringConstant 20 10
    73 Lower Analog Frequency 0 100, so I tried changing this one first, My spindle immediately started running, so I turned it back to 0 then set it to 100 after making all the other changes, spindle stayed off this time
    142 Rated Motor Current 11 9
    144 Rated Motor Revolutions 1440 3000
    143 Motor Pole number 4 2

    I know I had the spindle up to 24k manually but looking through my setting I now am second guessing what I remember... 143, 144 both could have capped the top speed. I might have done another reset then just changed the minimum, but not enough.

    But anyway I now get no control at all from Mach3.

    My setting via screen shots.






    It is quite plain that I am missing something, after the default setting still being there. Though now that I have the VFD appearing to be in a better configured state I still do not get the expected reaction from the machine.

    I flipped back to manual control of the spindle, and ran it up to 24k RMP's so that is looking good.

    Since it seems like a Mach3 issue now, I tried following the instructions http://here:http://www.machsupport.c...c=18580.0;wap2

    Still no response from the VFD\Spindle to Machs control, I am getting 8.22 volts between the ACM and VI inputs

    --Paul Myers

  16. #16
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    I agree, settings 143 and 144 could affect the spindle speed.

    If you are seeing 8.2 volts across the V1 and ACM connectors on the VFD and if you have the FOR signal jumped to DCM, the spindle should be turning regardless of the MACH3 settings.

    I would set pulley #1 and #4 both to 5900 min and 24000 max since pulley #4 is often the default.This will give you a minimum RPM of 6000 which should be OK if you don’t try working the spindle too hard. I only use 6000 for drilling small (under 1/8” holes) in aluminum.

    I’m not sure what you are using your single output pin for. I’m using my 4 output pins to control the 4 relays I have. One relay for the VFD FOR signal, one for the REV, one is for a spindle cooling water pump and the last relay is currently not used, perhaps a misting system in the future.

    I’ll attach my config windows so you can compare. Will also attach my schematic.I’m not saying my configuration is 100% correct or that this is the only way to configure the system but my schematic and settings are working well for me.

  17. #17
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    So close. This time when I went out to check the settings, I powered up the VFD, but let the spindle start and run automatically (I don't want it to do this, but progress!!!) it ran to 6000 rpms then I "turned on" the spindle in mach3. I was able to control the speed up to 21,408 according to the vfd, and 21,640 in Mach3.

    So this is very promising.

    21k is very satisfactory, now I just need to get the startup to be 0 or learn how to change bits at 6k rpm...I dont think my fingers will be around to try more than once...



    AH HA!!!, just went back out realizing I know how to fix this. I dropped 73 back down to 0, now on powerup the spindle is stopped, but "ready to run" instead of starting at 6k.

    Now my top speed is 20 ,566 on vfd and 21,640 on mach3

    I can live with that, but might be able to do some minor tweaking now to get it dialed in a bit more at least to get the VFD and Mach3 to be reporting the same.

    Thank you so much for you help. I think I will go through and follow the spindle tuning document that I linked earlier and see how that puts things.

    --Paul

  18. #18
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Glad you are making progress. A lot of variables involved.

    I have 73 set to 100 which is 1/4 of 400 and represents 1/4 of top RPM 24,000 or 6000 RPM. This prevents me from running the spindle below 6000 RPM. Since you currently have the FOR signal jumpered to DCM, your spindle would immediately run at 6000 RPM as soon as you powered on the the VFD. Once you get your FOR Relay installed, you can set 73 back to 6000.

    Good luck and don't loose any fingers! - Joe

  19. #19
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    Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd

    Ah ha, will have to follow up with another config change then also had kinda forgotten about the relay with the progress. That seems pretty straight forward though, and I can always drop back if I need to.

    So I just set up the pulley and configs, and get the following:

    Current pulley Max 25,252, so anything over 20K I will just consider max speed. I have yet to set the lower bound but will probably do it around 8k rpm that seemed to work well with the foam I have gotten to cut. I now hope to move on to wood, hope to end up cutting Aluminum. But lots of work to do before that.

    Mach3

    21,800
    VFD

    20,640 (max)
    20,200 20,160
    18,600 18,504
    17,000 16,776
    15,400 15,096
    13,800 13,392
    12,200 11,712
    10,600 10,440
    9,000 8,760
    7,400 7,045
    5,800 5,376
    4,200 3,720

  20. #20
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    Question Re: MX4660 Speed Control for 2.2 KW huanyang vfd-- Could use clarity please.

    I know this thread has been inactive for a few months, but I have a few questions regarding Joe2014's schematic. I recently switched to the MX4660 from the Gecko 540 thus requiring some radical changes in my control box. Since this is the only thread I can find anywhere on the web regarding this connection, I've found Joe2014's schematic to provide some hope for my getting my spindle operational.

    I was able to get it running via CNCRP's setup but had zero control over the speed as it would start and continue to accelerate till it reached full speed and I had to estop to stop the spindle which is obviously unacceptable.

    Automation Technologies has a video showing their hookup method (on the MX3660) and I couldn't get it to work at all via their setup (displayed in a diagram earlier in this thread). I plan to power a 4 channel 5V relay module (JBtek) with a dedicated 5V power supply.

    My questions are as follows;

    Where does the output ground from the dedicated power supply in the schematic hook up (if indeed it is dedicated)?

    Also I noticed that the schematic shows the external 5V power going to the VCC connection and all the Output negative terminals (3 and up) from the MX4660 in the schematic tied together and then to the (digital?) GND on the relay module.

    If this is so, do I simply tie them to any of the digital GND locations on the MX4660? I ask this because there is not a GND terminal in the Output segment of the drive, but only on the OPTO and Input section.

    Are all the Output negative terminals digital commons? It's not super clear to me on the Leadshine Datasheet.

    Another concern is that all the arduino sites say that if using an external power supply for the relay board, since powering without a Raspberry pi, the 5V from the power supply must go to the JD-VCC and not to the VCC, and then to the GND to the board. They say it will blow the relay board otherwise. I tried this hookup (per the arduino JD-VCC method) with Output 5+ going to the IN1 for that relay but none of the Output- / GND to the board since there is only one GND on the relay board.

    So to sum it all up, it seems I mainly need clarity on the Ground issues regarding the items I mentioned mentioned above. And any other wisdom or experiences via this hookup and setup in Mach 3 anyone can offer.

    Thanks in advance to any and all who can and will help me wrap my brain around this. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

    Bill

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