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Thread: Whoops

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    12177

    Whoops

    I guess after nine years of running CNCs I am allowed to have a serious crash, but I will try to avoid repeating it.

    Stopping a chuck spinning at 1000rpm by sticking a tool holder into the jaws tends to modify the toolchanger on a TL2.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Crash1.jpg   Crash2.jpg  
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    361
    ouch...
    and my old shop teacher used to tell me he'd smack me in the nuts with a rubber hammer if I accidentally left the chuck key in...
    So far I've been lucky, but he 'advised' me of the consequencews back in, oh, around 1970??

    at long as nobody got hurt,
    that's the main thing...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    672
    I bet you felt the "thunk" through the floor.

    That's why I'm chicken around lathes.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    15362
    Hi Geof
    Was this from programing or a machine malfuction this kind of crash makes cam software very inexpensive, That sure did a number. I guess Haas does no have soft limits that you
    can set for each tool so the tool can not get to the chuck, Did I see in one of your posts
    that you where from/or lived in NZ if so where in NZ we may have been doing the same thing there at the same time
    Mactec54

  5. #5
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    Jul 2005
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    It was an operator issue, coupled with the fact that I was doing a left hand thread.

    For the left hand I was starting at a Z minus location near the chuck and threading away. All my clearances checked out; when doing this the way I enter the Z offset is bring the tool to its closest location to the chuck, enter that as the Z offset then move the offset out by the distance the tool is going to travel. Perfectly safe!!

    But somehow I got the X value wrong so when the tool moved to the Z minus position the tip caught the part and the tool holder rotated in the turret. The back end of the holder kicked out just far enough to get caught by the jaws. That is why the turret is so mangled, the holder was sticking out about three inches like a pry bar.

    To answer your NZ query I lived near Auckland, place called Muriwai Beach. Left in 1966.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    15362
    Hi Geof
    Now I can see how it all got so mangled with it being able to turn when the tool hit, I no Muriwai Beach very well but was not living in Auckland untill 1967 & was more on the east coast & lived at Mairangi Bay I have a daughter that lives in Kumeu which is close to Muriwai Beach. I will be going to NZ on the 26 of May
    Mactec54

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1702
    WOW! Uhhh...lemme' get my thoughts straight. WOW!

    Nobody got hurt? Any other damage? That exact thing scares me too. Or the jaws being too far out of the chuck and hitting the cross-slide.

    Are you going to replace the changer or go for something like the Dorian turret?
    Greg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    181
    Man Geof... Why you've done that??? That's not funny to break down a machine, don't do that again okay?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Hotey View Post
    ... Any other damage?...
    That is a good question.

    The replacement turret is on its way by UPS Blue and will be here tomorrow; around $4500 including freight.

    I have a spindle bearing vibration analysis booked for next week to see if it is different to the one taken a few months ago as a baseline when I got the machine.

    I don't expect anything else to show damage mostly because the chuck slowed down 'gently' over about 1-1/2" of peripheral distance. Did you read my explanation above how the tool swung around and formed a long lever arm?
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    381
    That right there is the reason I cannot stand mounting the 3 jaw on our SL-10. I only do it if I absolutely have to. I like out 16C collet chuck. It's round. Probably the worst I could do is bump into it. But at least it wouldn't have a much leverage as a jaw stuck out 8 or 10 inches from the spindle center.

    Good luck Geof with the new turret. Just pray that it will be at least another 9 years before you crash one like that again!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    100
    I have had some good crashes and heard some others also. When no one gets hurt that is important. It makes me more careful setting up. When I am sure that when changing somrthing simple it is good then it can get me. I have been told I am slower setting up because I do not trust the program until proven. I am not a good programmer but wish to improve. I enjoy this site a lot and tell Geoff hang in there.

  12. #12
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    Jun 2004
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    84
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo_454 View Post
    That right there is the reason I cannot stand mounting the 3 jaw on our SL-10. I only do it if I absolutely have to. I like out 16C collet chuck. It's round. Probably the worst I could do is bump into it. But at least it wouldn't have a much leverage as a jaw stuck out 8 or 10 inches from the spindle center.

    Good luck Geof with the new turret. Just pray that it will be at least another 9 years before you crash one like that again!!
    That is why I hide all the 3 jaw chucks that come on my machines & I forgot where I put them <G>. Only 5C & 16C collets, I don't do any work over 1 5/8".

    Now I do have engine lathes with big 3 jaw chucks for one or 2 parts.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by duenow View Post
    ....Now I do have engine lathes with big 3 jaw chucks for one or 2 parts.
    Years ago I had big turret lathes; Herbert #7's with 14" and 16" chucks. I stopped one of these once when a piece of parted off steel bar stock fell down between the chuck jaw and the saddle. What a bang; full stop within less than a degree of rotation from 1200 rpm. And nothing broke!!!
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  14. #14
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    The replacement turret was shipped as promised UPS Blue, arrived at my Haas dealer as expected two days later...and was promptly forwarded by some super zealous, but misguided person, to the wrong customer!!!!!
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2006
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    47
    Geof,
    Do you know if the new style turret is available yet? If so is that the one you are getting? I heard it is suppose to be much faster and much more reliable but the last time I talked to Haas they were still working on it. My turret is starting to have problems again but I wont replace it until the new one is ready.

    Mark Hockett

  16. #16
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    Jul 2005
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    The last information I had on the new TL turret was about a year ago before I decided to buy the machine I have. The new turret, supposedly, was going to be available sometime late summer last year, and be much faster, but it was only going to be on the machines with the big display and usb port. I wanted a floppy drive so I went for the old style.

    I was told that the new one would not be retrofittable in place of the old style because it is a true servo-driven turret. The old style is just a little gear motor.

    What problems are you having? I have two TLs with turrets, and apart from it being inadequately constructed to survive being used as a spindle brake, so far have not had any problems.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  17. #17
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    Jun 2006
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    47
    Geof,
    Mt turret is starting to alarm out on position 4 again. It is also having troubles locking into position. its binds and makes a loud poping noise when locking.
    It is also just way too slow for production, I can use an Aloris and manually change tools faster. The problem with the Aloris is it is not very repeatable, my turret will hold a couple of tenths.

    The gang tool system seems to be the best set-up for the TL-1, remove the X axis handwheel and apron, set the rapids up to SL-10 speeds and let her rip

    Mark Hockett

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hockett View Post
    ...makes a loud poping noise when locking.
    It is also just way too slow for production,...Mark Hockett
    I have not (touch wood) had any locking problems or position alarms on either of my TLs, but I do agree it is painfully slow. The TL2 changer is faster than the older TL1 but still slow for production. And a thought came into my head; maybe I can switch the drive motor from the one I destroyed into the changer on the TL1 to speed it up. Have to think about that.

    Even with the handwheel removed I think SL10 rapids would be a bit scary, I sometimes find them scary on a SL10.
    An open mind is a virtue...so long as all the common sense has not leaked out.

  19. #19
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    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geof View Post
    Even with the handwheel removed I think SL10 rapids would be a bit scary, I sometimes find them scary on a SL10.
    Geof,
    You can't just remove the handwheels at those speeds, you must remove the whole apron or it will strip the rack gear teeth right off. I think the SL-10 is kind of slow compared to machines like the Daewoo or many others. My friend has a Daewoo sitting right next to an SL-10 and the Daewoo is much faster.

    Mark Hockett

  20. #20
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    Aug 2005
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    578
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hockett View Post
    Geof,
    You can't just remove the handwheels at those speeds, you must remove the whole apron or it will strip the rack gear teeth right off. I think the SL-10 is kind of slow compared to machines like the Daewoo or many others. My friend has a Daewoo sitting right next to an SL-10 and the Daewoo is much faster.

    Mark Hockett

    Why yes, Yes it is...

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