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IndustryArena Forum > OpenSource CNC Design Center > Open Source Controller Boards > Open source low cost servomotor controller
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  1. #26
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by macdowswe View Post
    Thanks!
    On the third video on the project page, you can see a demo with a 3kg mass moving 80cm.
    Yeah, step/direction input will be, by popular request, the the first available interface to control ODrive.
    Well yes, I saw that video. However, I am wondering if it has been tried on a larger machine. A 3 kg mass on linear rails is still really nothing compared to what I am talking about. I'm considering trying it on my milling machine so I am talking more like a 40-50 pound mass moving vertically at at least 200 inches per minute. It is driven by a ball screw, but rides on dovetail slides which will have considerable more friction that linear rails. Has anyone attempted anything like this?

  2. #27
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    Well yes, I saw that video. However, I am wondering if it has been tried on a larger machine. A 3 kg mass on linear rails is still really nothing compared to what I am talking about. I'm considering trying it on my milling machine so I am talking more like a 40-50 pound mass moving vertically at at least 200 inches per minute. It is driven by a ball screw, but rides on dovetail slides which will have considerable more friction that linear rails. Has anyone attempted anything like this?
    Ah fair enough. No, I haven't done anything like that. I don't think it will be a big issue though, as long as the gearing is well dimensioned.
    Get a board, and try it ;D

  3. #28
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    I already plan to do automatic machine mass/friction identification, and to use model based feed-forward for most of the control action. So it should be possible to look at the tracking error to identify if there are any major disturbance forces, and hence take action.
    I do not share your optimism. If all you are running are 2 mm cutters into timber, that's fine. But try running a 2" face mill across steel and see what forces are involved. Or try running a 1/2" drill into steel.
    There is a reason why larger machines have larger motors - and safety doors.

    Cheers
    Roger

  4. #29
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    I do not share your optimism. If all you are running are 2 mm cutters into timber, that's fine. But try running a 2" face mill across steel and see what forces are involved. Or try running a 1/2" drill into steel.
    There is a reason why larger machines have larger motors - and safety doors.

    Cheers
    Roger
    Yes, I agree with you. The method I outlined will only work if your fault force is much higher than any unmodeled disturbance force that occurs during normal operation. For some machines and applications, that is the case, and for some it won't be.
    Cheers

  5. #30
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by macdowswe View Post
    Ah fair enough. No, I haven't done anything like that. I don't think it will be a big issue though, as long as the gearing is well dimensioned.
    Get a board, and try it ;D
    Are boards available and if so, where and how much do they cost?

  6. #31
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    Are boards available and if so, where and how much do they cost?
    I will be facilitating a couple of production runs at different stages of maturity of the project. I expect that the early prototypes will be around $100, and with a larger run later on will be closer to $50. You can check out the details, and sign up for a board at any stage, here: https://hackaday.io/project/11583-od...nd-development

  7. #32
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller



    The time has finally come for the manufacturing run of ODrive v3.1. They are now on the way, and should arrive early to mid January.

    At this stage, around 20 board kits are going out the people who signed up to the "Inital development" phase. They have not been all allocated yet, you can signup here.

    Since the boars are going out to just a small group of early developers, I will have the time to personally get you up to speed with the codebase and help to get going with the hardware. Then, together, we can prepare some stuff that is a bit more stable and a bit more documented for when the alpha testing begins.

    The cost for me to get this small batch of boards manufactured was $96 per board, so that is the amount I need to ask for a kit, plus shipping.

    The kit involves basically everything seen in the above picture, and consists of:

    • ODrive v3.1
    • USB Programmer
    • A set of the optional large gauge wire screw terminals
    • A set of pin headers
    • Some nylon standoffs


    I hope that ODrive will be able to help you make an awesome robotics project, thank you so much for your contribution to helping people have access to open robotics hardware and software.

  8. #33
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Is it just me or is $96.00 for a kit a little pricey based on what is provided?

    It's a shame eagle files aren't available, I'm almost certain my friend could have this board made and populated for $50.00 or less each in a small quantity like 50pcs.

  9. #34
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by websrvr View Post
    Is it just me or is $96.00 for a kit a little pricey based on what is provided?

    It's a shame eagle files aren't available, I'm almost certain my friend could have this board made and populated for $50.00 or less each in a small quantity like 50pcs.
    The design is available on GitHub, CircuitMaker, and CircuitHub. Please let me know where you looked and failed to find the links, and I will put the links there.

    The price is quite high, I agree. This is because I used a turnkey professional manufacturer, CircuitHub, and only did a run of 28 boards. If your friend can have the boards made for less, that would be fantastic for the project.
    Please let me know if you, or your friend, would be willing to help with that.

    Cheers,
    Oskar

  10. #35
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by macdowswe View Post
    The design is available on GitHub, CircuitMaker, and CircuitHub. Please let me know where you looked and failed to find the links, and I will put the links there.

    The price is quite high, I agree. This is because I used a turnkey professional manufacturer, CircuitHub, and only did a run of 28 boards. If your friend can have the boards made for less, that would be fantastic for the project.
    Please let me know if you, or your friend, would be willing to help with that.

    Cheers,
    Oskar
    I guess you didn't understand what I was saying.

    Your schematic and PCB layout file are not usable by my friend, he only works with eagle files and wont waste time trying to convert the ones you have.

    He has a preference for Version 6.3.0 but can accept Version 7.x if you have a licensed copy to generate unrestricted files.

    If you need a licensed version of eagle so you don't have any board restrictions, this can possibly be arranged.

    What this means is if you can't give me the schematic and PCB layout files in eagle format i wont be able to have my friend make the boards but he did estimate cost to be around $46.00 each (based on parts and board size) for a quantity of 50pcs and less on larger quantities.

  11. #36
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Your schematic and PCB layout file are not usable by my friend, he only works with eagle files and wont waste time trying to convert the ones you have.
    Tough.
    The world will not dance to your tune. The plans are FREE, for heavens sake!

    Cheers
    Roger

  12. #37
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Your schematic and PCB layout file are not usable by my friend, he only works with eagle files and wont waste time trying to convert the ones you have.
    Tough.
    The world will not dance to your tune. The plans are FREE, for heavens sake!

    Cheers
    Roger
    It never ceases to amaze me that someone says something which clearly indicates they didn't think before they responded or lack the faculty to see value in an offer.

    RCaffin, why would you inject this nonsense?

    Are you really that clued out that you can't understand the benefit provided by my friends offer if the files are in eagle format?

    Since you seem pretty clueless I'll clarify it for you, no eagle files and my friend wont produce the boards inexpensively, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand this, just have some common sense and the ability to read.

    Since it is doubtful you will make an offer to produce the board at a reasonable cost I fail to see how interest will be maintained for a product that is not reasonably priced when there are full and complete retail solutions at a fraction of the current cost.

    For $62.00/pc I can buy a 6.5A/80V (AC 20V-80V / DC 20V-150V) stepper driver including the heatsink with an MOQ 10pcs and since the current cost is so high for an incomplete solution it wont help it survive past the OP's personal project and even he realizes this.

    So, you are saying people should buy the product despite it's inflated costs just because you think they should, yeah right, good luck with that logic.

    In closing, I would like to thank you RCaffin for informing me that the project doesn't need any help to produce the boards at a reasonable price and that it can live with the over/double priced product which doesn't make it an affordable or reasonably priced solution which in turn contributes to it's demise.

  13. #38
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Not wrong planet - wrong galaxy.
    Cheers
    Roger

  14. #39
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    I bought 5pcs of 15A/60VDC (STM32F103TBU7) based servo drivers at $38.00/pc and the heatsink requirement is nothing more than a small strip of 1in wide aluminum flat-stock due to the very low IRDs of the FET's used and this price was based on a run of 200pcs.

    While I have the eagle files for this driver, making more of this driver is not an option because what is lacking is firmware and the one person who has working firmware is no longer sharing it after others like yourself decided you didn't want him around here contributing to any projects.

    Basically what I see is a lot of people like RCaffin who are actively sabotaging viable projects and products and for the life of me I can't understand the logic which dictates that an inexpensive servo solution should not be available to the home/hobby user but it appears that many people don't want it as they make efforts and expel energy preventing it.

  15. #40
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    I couldn't see it anywhere but are you planning on producing 3 axis boards?

    Very cool looking project, major props getting it out there!

    cheers, Ian
    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!

  16. #41
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Not wrong planet - wrong galaxy.
    Cheers
    Roger
    Right?

    Heaven forbid that someone should use a professional EDA package instead of the industry's equivalent of Duplo.

    In a more bridge-building, happy light, though, here's a suggestion:

    mcdowswe, if you have the time would you mind adding some files to the github project? In particular, if you can do a generate & export of gerber files for the PCBs, anyone can get them made pretty much anywhere. A PDF export of the schematics would mean those without Altium would also be able to trace things down. If all anyone wants to do is make boards per your design a little bit cheaper this'd be all they needed.

    And it would mean that anyone who wanted to modify the design for themselves would be able to create (and, obviously, publish in the spirit of open source) an Eagle format mirror of the design files.

  17. #42
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    Totally Awesome

    Macdowswe,

    Your work is totally awesome, even better than a triple chocolate custard filled bismark!

    I would also like to thank Websrvr for all his generous contributions and personally wish him happy holidays.
    Santa will visit soon and all the children will be happy too.
    Live from downtown Burbank home of the world famous Christmas Kringle.
    JoeyB



    Quote Originally Posted by macdowswe View Post


    The time has finally come for the manufacturing run of ODrive v3.1. They are now on the way, and should arrive early to mid January.

    At this stage, around 20 board kits are going out the people who signed up to the "Inital development" phase. They have not been all allocated yet, you can signup here.

    Since the boars are going out to just a small group of early developers, I will have the time to personally get you up to speed with the codebase and help to get going with the hardware. Then, together, we can prepare some stuff that is a bit more stable and a bit more documented for when the alpha testing begins.

    The cost for me to get this small batch of boards manufactured was $96 per board, so that is the amount I need to ask for a kit, plus shipping.

    The kit involves basically everything seen in the above picture, and consists of:

    • ODrive v3.1
    • USB Programmer
    • A set of the optional large gauge wire screw terminals
    • A set of pin headers
    • Some nylon standoffs


    I hope that ODrive will be able to help you make an awesome robotics project, thank you so much for your contribution to helping people have access to open robotics hardware and software.
    A doughnut a day keeps the doctor away.

  18. #43
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Hi websrvr

    To explain: this is a hobby project one person is running, and he is running it HIS WAY, as is his right.
    It might fly, or it might not. It might be too expensive, or it might not. But it is HIS project.
    Since it is HIS project, he is at liberty to publish how he wants and as much or as little data as he wants. That is HIS choice.
    For anyone else to come along and try to take the project over and dictate how data should be made available is not only wrong, it is impolite and futile.

    My 2c
    Cheers
    Roger

  19. #44
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by aarggh View Post
    I couldn't see it anywhere but are you planning on producing 3 axis boards?

    Very cool looking project, major props getting it out there!

    cheers, Ian
    Hey, thanks!
    So yeah many people have requested a 3 axis version, and the plan is to do that for v4. I have already identified a microcontroller that has the peripherals required for that.

    Cheers,
    Oskar

  20. #45
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    So on the topic of websrvr's offer and the resulting discussion:
    I am intending to make the price point lower than $96, as I already stated previously in the thread, the target price is around $50.
    I have many different options to chose from, including one guy over at the OpenPnP mailing list who offered to manufacture 50 boards for free to get the project started.
    I chose to go with CircuitHub to get some prototype boards done quickly.

    Can we please keep the topic of the thread about not this now?
    How about: What kind of forces are required to do CNCing on your machine? Do you use leadscrews or belts?

    Cheers,
    Oskar

  21. #46
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    Right?

    Heaven forbid that someone should use a professional EDA package instead of the industry's equivalent of Duplo.

    In a more bridge-building, happy light, though, here's a suggestion:

    mcdowswe, if you have the time would you mind adding some files to the github project? In particular, if you can do a generate & export of gerber files for the PCBs, anyone can get them made pretty much anywhere. A PDF export of the schematics would mean those without Altium would also be able to trace things down. If all anyone wants to do is make boards per your design a little bit cheaper this'd be all they needed.

    And it would mean that anyone who wanted to modify the design for themselves would be able to create (and, obviously, publish in the spirit of open source) an Eagle format mirror of the design files.
    So the schematic pdf is already available on GitHub: Link.
    Yeah other people have already asked for gerbers. The reason I haven't provided them yet is because there are still some bugs in the hardware design, that I hope will be fixed with version 3.1 (the one currently being manufactured). Only when I have verified that the bugs are solved will I be comfortable in recommending others to manufacture boards of their own.

    Cheers,
    Oskar

  22. #47
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Champion, Oskar. And thank you for your efforts with this design - and for deciding to share it with us. Very generous of you!

  23. #48
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by macdowswe View Post
    So on the topic of websrvr's offer and the resulting discussion:
    I am intending to make the price point lower than $96, as I already stated previously in the thread, the target price is around $50.
    I have many different options to chose from, including one guy over at the OpenPnP mailing list who offered to manufacture 50 boards for free to get the project started.
    I chose to go with CircuitHub to get some prototype boards done quickly.

    Can we please keep the topic of the thread about not this now?
    How about: What kind of forces are required to do CNCing on your machine? Do you use leadscrews or belts?

    Cheers,
    Oskar
    Hi we use 4nm motors on our mills and lathes if that helps


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

  24. #49
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Tkamsker View Post
    Hi we use 4nm motors on our mills and lathes if that helps


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk
    Cool!
    How difficult would it be for you to install a motor that was 1Nm, but could spin 4 times faster?
    Would this be a dealbreaker?

  25. #50
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    Re: Open source low cost servomotor controller

    Hi
    difficult not but depending on the prices of motors. The issue is normal the power curve we use Nanotec st6018 L3008 now and to get similar curve i need an bigger motor than https://granitedevices.com/store/bl7...th-cables.html or Welcome to Delta Group we would end up in 750W range. We do lathes and mills for steel (similar to torch or Novakon ) but really build in europe no china stuff ! so the advantage of servo is that it can turn around 2k-3k RPM compared to stepper 0,52 - 0,75k And looking at the curves there is a power gap (similar to 2 stroke engines - if we overcome that i would be verry interested. thomas

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