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  1. #51

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    there are also instructional videos on youtube in regards to making face masks from bras , even though health officials continue to repeat that the general public should not where masks .

  2. #52
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Further to my earlier post,this news item has now appeared:https://us.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/m...rus/index.html .Please don't bother telling me they aren't the all singing,all dancing ventilators but they are intended to save lives and leave the more complex machines free for those who really need them.I was a little saddened to learn that the makers of the more complex machines were uncooperative on the basis of protecting their designs.

  3. #53
    Administrator burs's Avatar
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Do you already know this challenge? I was wondering if it could be of interest to you!?

    https://www.coventchallenge.com/


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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Great attitudes can't, can't, can't.
    Same attitudes I see with printed face masks when the machinist community gets involved. Not FDA approved, won't pass fit test....
    Seems like a group a fools that would die because the 19mm wrench is missing as your tripping over 3/4's.
    I wish I could find the janky contraption MIT is experimenting, a cable attached to a stepper motor shaft acting as a cable drum. The other end of cable attached to a paddle squeezing a ventilator bag.
    Sure there not cnc controlled but many cnc like materials in there build.
    Check out this

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by routalot View Post
    Further to my earlier post,this news item has now appeared:https://us.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/m...rus/index.html .Please don't bother telling me they aren't the all singing,all dancing ventilators but they are intended to save lives and leave the more complex machines free for those who really need them.I was a little saddened to learn that the makers of the more complex machines were uncooperative on the basis of protecting their designs.

    Yes. Basically a version of a C,P,A,P unit (or something like that). It might help some people but again is not really a substitute for the critical.
    But on the flip side what will happen is, while we piss about 'testing' and faffing (as usual) they'll take orders from worldwide. By the time it comes to get some in the NHS ourselves -, There'll be a backlog and they'll tell us we have to wait 5 months even though it's made here!!!

  6. #56
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by routalot View Post
    Further to my earlier post,this news item has now appeared:https://us.cnn.com/2020/03/30/tech/m...rus/index.html .Please don't bother telling me they aren't the all singing,all dancing ventilators but they are intended to save lives and leave the more complex machines free for those who really need them.I was a little saddened to learn that the makers of the more complex machines were uncooperative on the basis of protecting their designs.
    Yes I already posted that here and this has been tested and works at the intermediate level which is where the treatment needs to start
    Mactec54

  7. #57
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by acra2100 View Post
    Hi, I'm retired now but if I recall we had some similar machinery. I've always loved that handle, aren't we all. I usually read through this forum every month or so to see whats happening, Anyways, I saw your name and read through all the comments, It appears you were in the wrong place for the science. People trying to change your narrative from an emergency situation to a medically approved device didn't help the conversation. I come with good news. My grandson is presently enrolled in a robotics class. Entry level, His teacher was inspired by a story out of China where a 15 year old kid saved his neighbors life. No respirators were available and his neighbors were hand bagging their mother. Evidently the kid was into robotics and had a kit he built a robotic arm from, This kid modified the arm to push the bag and programmed it to push the way it had to. He saved a life. My grandsons teacher has a group of students making this same device as a project to learn from. Great teacher! Anyhow, long story short, you aren't the only one with this brilliant idea. Search homemade respirators on youtube. My grandson showed me many are actually doing what you suggested though they don't have the luxury you have in a cnc mill ready to program to push a bag. My grandson was very interested because he used to help me in my shop and loves machinery, smart kid, he chimed in they should set up portable hospitals beside industrial plants, they could run airlines, you could put more than one bag on a mill table he says. Anyhow, you have a couple fans here. There are only leaders or followers taxslave, you're not a follower. Great innovation!
    The problem with this is there is no shortage of this level of Ventilation, and with your suggestion you would hurt of kill more people with this uncontrolled method of bagging

    Any type of bagging can help at the none critical stage, once the patient reaches a critical stage when organs start to shut down only 1 in 10 are being saved with critical care Ventilator use which would be imposable to do with any CNC or a machine under robotic control

    There are many different devices already being used and there is no shortage at this level of treatment

    This simple CPAP device does all what you are talking about and more, and there is no shortage of devices like this
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CPAP-2.jpg  
    Mactec54

  8. #58
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Again, more of the same. I realized on the weekend I was in the wrong place trying to discuss writing underlying programs in CNC equipment to general operators. I've since moved on to discussions with a group that write software for various functions including robotics. A lot of ideas on the many ways this could easily function are a result. Thank you for trying though. My mistake. Simply the wrong place for this discussion.
    Glade you found somewhere to post I still waiting for the code you said was so easy to write or a skitch of how you would make a CNC machine do the job of a CPAP unit, all you have done is talk

    Here is a CPAC package, anyone can buy one, and there is no shortage of them, this will do a better job plus more, than any CNC Machine or Robotic controlled machine

    Note there is no shortage at this level of Ventilator requirement
    Mactec54

  9. #59
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by acra2100 View Post
    Hi, I'm retired now but if I recall we had some similar machinery. I've always loved that handle, aren't we all. I usually read through this forum every month or so to see whats happening, Anyways, I saw your name and read through all the comments, It appears you were in the wrong place for the science. People trying to change your narrative from an emergency situation to a medically approved device didn't help the conversation. I come with good news. My grandson is presently enrolled in a robotics class. Entry level, His teacher was inspired by a story out of China where a 15 year old kid saved his neighbors life. No respirators were available and his neighbors were hand bagging their mother. Evidently the kid was into robotics and had a kit he built a robotic arm from, This kid modified the arm to push the bag and programmed it to push the way it had to. He saved a life. My grandsons teacher has a group of students making this same device as a project to learn from. Great teacher! Anyhow, long story short, you aren't the only one with this brilliant idea. Search homemade respirators on youtube. My grandson showed me many are actually doing what you suggested though they don't have the luxury you have in a cnc mill ready to program to push a bag. My grandson was very interested because he used to help me in my shop and loves machinery, smart kid, he chimed in they should set up portable hospitals beside industrial plants, they could run airlines, you could put more than one bag on a mill table he says. Anyhow, you have a couple fans here. There are only leaders or followers taxslave, you're not a follower. Great innovation!
    Thank you for the kind words. It sounds like your grandchild is a motivated young man, great to hear. I've always ignored negative thinkers. There are a lot of people out there that can speak only of ways something can't be done. I learned this when I was 11 years old, I adapted one of those old gasoline washing machine motors with the starting pedal to motorize my bicycle. My first machining job was on my uncles Atlas bench lathe making an aluminum drive wheel that fit the top of the tire. I had many naysayers, my brothers, schoolmates etc but the glory was all mine the day I went flying by them all on my motorized bike. I have so many gizmo's I've made over the years I need another shed.
    Once I became aligned with the robotics people, they to have heard many innovative ideas out of China during this crisis. They also pointed me to the Youtube postings. Its great to see our inventors combine forces around the world and fight this crisis. I must say these robotic people are among the most inventive and motivated group I've ever seen in my life, many are very young, great to see. Almost zero negativity in that crowd. To anyone reading this. If you've never seen the robotic kits available for kids these days, go check it out. Trust me when I say get your child into this, boy or girl, many seem to love this. Its the future.
    Again, thank you for the kind words and take care of yourself in this horrible crisis. Never let anyone tell you something can't be done.

  10. #60

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    the main reason that most people with covid are gasping for air is because of a lack of oxygen , due to extensive damage to their lungs . An emergency bag that is hooked up to a push rod which is pushing room air into the lungs is not going to give the patient the oxygen they need . As mentioned these devises may work for non critical but these simple devises are a far cry from the silliness of connecting a bladder to a full on cnc machine

  11. #61
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Again, more of the same. I realized on the weekend I was in the wrong place trying to discuss writing underlying programs in CNC equipment to general operators. I've since moved on to discussions with a group that write software for various functions including robotics. A lot of ideas on the many ways this could easily function are a result. Thank you for trying though. My mistake. Simply the wrong place for this discussion.
    I don't think that anyone here said it's impossible to use a CNC controller/machine/robot to perform a repetitive task such as operating a bellows, of course that is possible. We are arguing is that it is not practical. Not to mention moving a CNC machine to the victim or vice-versa would be a logistical nightmare.

    On the low end, the hobby class Windows based systems are for the most part very limited in functionality but still could provide rudimentary operation. While somewhat flexible in the programming depending on the system, the hardware just doesn't have the capability of sophisticated operations outside of the design parameters.

    The high end CNC machines have software and controllers that are pretty much locked down, not re-programmable at the user level, and will only provide the functionality that is factory programmed in, but still could be used to perform a repetitive task by using a loop in the G code.

    Both of the above could be used to operate something similar to a hand operated bagging system, but that is about the limitation of their capabilities, not because they are a bad system, but rather they were designed for a specific task that they do very well and don't lend themselves to much adaptability.

    There is another class of controllers that are programmable, and most can be programmed with a Windows (or Linux) based computer. I'm not going to try to list all of the available controllers here, but I think most of us know what is available. Suffice it to say that they range from Arduino and similar devices, to industrial controllers. These are designed to be user programmed to perform any task required, depending on the capabilities of the specific device.

    I'm not even going to try to address the electromechanical hardware requirements for such a system.

    The better use of our machines is to support the proven systems that are already in place.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  12. #62
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Lots of negatives Jim. I think what would work the best would to become a Doctor.

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by acra2100 View Post
    Hi, I'm retired now but if I recall we had some similar machinery. I've always loved that handle, aren't we all. I usually read through this forum every month or so to see whats happening, Anyways, I saw your name and read through all the comments, It appears you were in the wrong place for the science. People trying to change your narrative from an emergency situation to a medically approved device didn't help the conversation. I come with good news. My grandson is presently enrolled in a robotics class. Entry level, His teacher was inspired by a story out of China where a 15 year old kid saved his neighbors life. No respirators were available and his neighbors were hand bagging their mother. Evidently the kid was into robotics and had a kit he built a robotic arm from, This kid modified the arm to push the bag and programmed it to push the way it had to. He saved a life. My grandsons teacher has a group of students making this same device as a project to learn from. Great teacher! Anyhow, long story short, you aren't the only one with this brilliant idea. Search homemade respirators on youtube. My grandson showed me many are actually doing what you suggested though they don't have the luxury you have in a cnc mill ready to program to push a bag. My grandson was very interested because he used to help me in my shop and loves machinery, smart kid, he chimed in they should set up portable hospitals beside industrial plants, they could run airlines, you could put more than one bag on a mill table he says. Anyhow, you have a couple fans here. There are only leaders or followers taxslave, you're not a follower. Great innovation!
    Would you please ask your grandson to ask his teacher if the bagging was performed through a mask or did they modify to an actual tracheal tube.? I've been in contact with a few people working on this and they say many different home made units are coming to light out of China. I'm thinking the tracheal tube would be the way to go. They didn't have enough ventilators but I'm sure they would have a lot of the proper tubes. The stories I'm hearing from the people I'm working with in regards to what the people in China were going through without enough supplies are absolutely bizarre to say the least. Theres going to be years of documentarys ahead of us. At least we had some warning to prepare.

  14. #64
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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Lots of negatives Jim. I think what would work the best would to become a Doctor.
    Go for it, you may then have a better understanding of what is needed

    I suggest you talk to a shrink
    Mactec54

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Sorry, the negativity is off the rails big time. Even after we know simple bagging saved lives. All the best, We will make it through this.

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by HCE View Post
    Great attitudes can't, can't, can't.
    Same attitudes I see with printed face masks when the machinist community gets involved. Not FDA approved, won't pass fit test....
    Seems like a group a fools that would die because the 19mm wrench is missing as your tripping over 3/4's.
    I wish I could find the janky contraption MIT is experimenting, a cable attached to a stepper motor shaft acting as a cable drum. The other end of cable attached to a paddle squeezing a ventilator bag.
    Sure there not cnc controlled but many cnc like materials in there build.
    Check out this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McnqZXRVdxY

    I hear you, I'm beginning to wonder if there was another book out my parents missed "The little engine that couldn't".
    A great video link. The Rice University is an intelligent bunch. It goes without saying that innovators like ourselves wouldn't want to see this contraption wheeled into our hospital room if a regular ventilator was available but if they wheeled it in and told us nothing else was available and it was our only chance to possibly survive, we'd welcome it. A point being blatantly ignored in this conversation by many. Like we need to be informed a proper ventilator would be best, lol. You've a great attitude, keep it up.

  17. #67

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    I've got dozens of motors drivers rail screws etc sitting on my stock shelves . With a badder in my hands I could build one of those contraptions in a evening
    this thread is over a week old . How far have you gotten besides talk .

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    If you were to watch the educational video about using a bagger, you'd likely learn to attach an oxygen bottle to the factory supplied oxygen bottle attachment available on every medical bagger wouldn't you, or am I missing something? Oxygen bottles are readily available many places. Even oxygen generators like the ones you see on carts people wheel around with them. I am literally blown away you've been arguing for days without knowing this. They work on "non critical" without the bottle.

  19. #69

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    really !
    Its not as easy as connecting an o2 tank and opening a valve
    how are you going to regulated the blood oxygen levels . Not everyone is going to need the exact same level of oxygen , and you'd likely face doing more damage than good

    I'm glad that I'm not living in some 3rd world country hoping for a homemade ventilator , because I'd likely die for sure . I'll rely on the medical profession that my tax dollar pays for , and not some basement monkey

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    really !
    Its not as easy as connecting an o2 tank and opening a valve
    how are you going to regulated the blood oxygen levels . Not everyone is going to need the exact same level of oxygen , and you'd likely face doing more damage than good

    I'm glad that I'm not living in some 3rd world country hoping for a homemade ventilator , because I'd likely die for sure . I'll rely on the medical profession that my tax dollar pays for , and not some basement monkey
    Theres this really cool invention called a regulator, reg-u-la-tor. You turn this little round thingy to adjust the oxygen level to the size of the patient according to instructions (those pesky things you've yet to bother yourself with). Then you'll see something really weird(unless you know whats going on as a result of reading instructions). ........Keep digging.

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by burs View Post
    Do you already know this challenge? I was wondering if it could be of interest to you!?

    https://www.coventchallenge.com/

    Thank you for this information, wouldn't of ever seen it otherwise.

  22. #72

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by taxslave View Post
    Theres this really cool invention called a regulator, reg-u-la-tor. You turn this little round thingy to adjust the oxygen level to the size of the patient according to instructions (those pesky things you've yet to bother yourself with). Then you'll see something really weird(unless you know whats going on as a result of reading instructions). ........Keep digging.
    Reg-u-la-tor eh ?
    by weight is likely irrelevant since we are talking about damaged lungs , the more damage there is the less oxygen is being absorbed . The blood levels will need to be monitored and reg-u-la-ted as i pointed out . Air flow means nothing if the body is not getting the appropriate levels of oxygen . Breath into a balloon if you don't understand the concept

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    Reg-u-la-tor eh ?
    by weight is likely irrelevant since we are talking about damaged lungs , the more damage there is the less oxygen is being absorbed . The blood levels will need to be reg-u-la-ted as i pointed out . Air flow means nothing if the body is not getting the appropriate levels of oxygen
    By weight duh would indeed be incorrect. Thats why I said size, its what those pesky instructions want Dr. M, those darn instructions have even more stuff to watch for. ..............again, the reason for the oxygen bottle, cmon.

  24. #74

    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    size weight whatever . What do the instructions says if there is 15% lung damage , 45% and so on . Thats if you have a proper diagnostics of how much damage there is .
    How will you know whether or not the patient will have the proper amount of oxygen .
    And before you chose to give a bs sideways reply , answer the question

    btw you didn't answer my other question . how far have you got on your contraption . I can make one in an evening . You've been beaking off for a week . What do you have other than words

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    Re: COVID 19 VENTILATORS ARE EVERYWHERE

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    size weight whatever . What do the instructions says if there is 15% lung damage , 45% and so on . Thats if you have a proper diagnostics of how much damage there is .
    Why don't you go educate yourself about this topic like you should have last week before you started your tutorial? All the answers are in the instructions, they tell you what to watch for. They're certainly not going to advise you blow them up like a "balloon" do you think?
    '

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