[Atomic_Sheep]

Hi Guys,

I received a 2.2kW spindle in the mail which I planned to use on my 6040 chinese CNC and realised that it was a little more than I had bargained for so it seems I have already outgrown my 6040 which I haven't even had a chance to use much even though I've had it for some time already(it's been fun playing with it however, have learned a lot). I'm going to update this post as I progress to give a snapshot of what I'm up to but the subsequent posts will just be discussion.

All the electrical stuff is completed. I'm presently using a Gecko G540 and I have some Nema motors in the mail, which are 2ce as powerful as the ones on my currenct 6040.

Requirements (Just off the top of my uneducated head for now, will update as we go along)
-What I want to machine: woods, plastics, aluminium and possibly mild steel (although I don't have a the slightest idea as to what mild steel I would be machining. I want the most versitile machine I can get.
-Size: The largest piece that I presently need to make is around 700mm (I can of course cut it in two operations on my current machine but heck, if I'm building a new machine, might as well go for something that is a bit bigger). I guess I want the largest machine I can make but at the same time I'm mindful that a larger machine will probably mean less accuracy/precision - still need to research this aspect. Also need to figure out how my motors fit into this equation. I definitely want a much bigger Z axis. The 6040 I think is around 7cm of travel which is rather restrictive. I've pretty much just been playing around with it so far and already I've had to come up with creative solutions to fixturing and some things are just plain impossible. The fact that I need to add a spoilboard to the equation exacerbates the problem even more. The other factor is obviously what components are available, this will restrict things as well.
-Budget: Preferably no more than $5000
-Lubrication - needs to have automatic lubrication
-Construction - I want the maximum stiffness, so perhaps aluminium construction isn't good enough - in my dreamland, a steel machine is what I'm aiming for but this might end up being way more expensive than I anticipate - also possibly unnecessary.
-Time - 1 year

[awerby]

It sounds like you are thinking of a mill, not a router. They are really 2 different machines. The router will be able to handle the wood and plastics; aluminum if you build it very heavy. But there's no way it will do a job on steel that would impress a machinist (although it might make some impression on the steel). That 2.2kw spindle should stay with the router - it's much too fast for steel. And I've never seen a router with automatic lubrication, although it's a common feature on larger mills. It sounds like you may have some of what you need to build a router, so if you've got room for two machines, keep your eyes open for a used CNC mill with an obsolete controller that's suitable for retrofitting.

[Atomic_Sheep]

That's a fair call, open to suggestions, I think that makes sense, build a large router and get a small mill for the heavy stuff. An option for sure, didn't think of it.

[wizard]

Hi Guys,

I received a 2.2kW spindle in the mail which I planned to use on my 6040 chinese CNC and realised that it was a little more than I had bargained for so it seems I have already outgrown my 6040 which I haven't even had a chance to use much even though I've had it for some time already(it's been fun playing with it however, have learned a lot). I'm going to update this post as I progress to give a snapshot of what I'm up to but the subsequent posts will just be discussion.

All the electrical stuff is completed. I'm presently using a Gecko G540 and I have some Nema motors in the mail, which are 2ce as powerful as the ones on my currenct 6040.

Honestly this is a bit backwards as generally you want to get the mechanical design settled and then make sure your electrical solution is acceptable for it. this isn't a huge worry as many people put together machines out of found parts and bargains they can't resist. The problem is that sometimes you don't get what you want out of the machine.

Requirements (Just off the top of my uneducated head for now, will update as we go along)
-What I want to machine: woods, plastics, aluminium and possibly mild steel (although I don't have a the slightest idea as to what mild steel I would be machining. I want the most versitile machine I can get.

I'd put steel out of your mind when it comes to a large router type machine. It can be done but the results are so sub optimal as to only be worth it for trivial and vary occasional "machining". The problem is steel is best done on a very stiff machine and ideally with plenty of coolant. Building a machine to do this properly vastly increases your costs. It should be noted that to do the job well you really need to have support for coolant when machining aluminum but at least here you can get by with a less stiff machine.

-Size: The largest piece that I presently need to make is around 700mm (I can of course cut it in two operations on my current machine but heck, if I'm building a new machine, might as well go for something that is a bit bigger).

Going bigger works against you when it comes to stiffness. On the other hand many CNC router applications, especially in wood, benefit form a large working area.

I guess I want the largest machine I can make but at the same time I'm mindful that a larger machine will probably mean less accuracy/precision - still need to research this aspect.

A larger machine doesn't have to be less accurate but getting there is generally a bit more expensive.

Also need to figure out how my motors fit into this equation. I definitely want a much bigger Z axis. The 6040 I think is around 7cm of travel which is rather restrictive. I've pretty much just been playing around with it so far and already I've had to come up with creative solutions to fixturing and some things are just plain impossible. The fact that I need to add a spoilboard to the equation exacerbates the problem even more. The other factor is obviously what components are available, this will restrict things as well.

I often say you need to know what your expectations are before you can effectively design or build a suitable machine. Your experiences with Z clearance is very valuable and hopefully will lead you to designing in a clearance suitable for your use. The trick is to design in no more than its really needed as a high Z can impart stiffness problems.

-Budget: Preferably no more than $5000

Possible. it really depends upon what you can accomplish yourself.

-Lubrication - needs to have automatic lubrication

These systems can be surprisingly expensive and may blow your budget. Generally if you can afford them it is a good idea.

-Construction - I want the maximum stiffness, so perhaps aluminium construction isn't good enough - in my dreamland, a steel machine is what I'm aiming for but this might end up being way more expensive than I anticipate - also possibly unnecessary.

Steel can be very cheap relative to some other materials. The local steel supplier sells drops for around 90 cents a pound depending on the phase of the moon and other factors. Drops of course means that it might take some time finding what you want/need. The real question with steel is are you equipped to work with the material. Frankly it isn't that much worst than working with aluminum. In both cases you would have to pay for machining services if you wanted the ultimate accuracy out of your machine or go one of the DIY routes.

Aluminum works really well when sold as kits to people with limited shop equipment. These are generally T-Slotted machines and by definition light duty. By the way light duty covers a wide array of what might be considered light duty as aluminum T-Slooted extrusions can be used to build useless machines to some rather nice machines for the price. It comes down to the parts chosen and the quality of the design.

When it comes right down to it I'm not a huge fan of T-slotted extrusions for the main components of a machine. The webs that support the linear rails, via the T-Slots are rather thin and keeping things aligned and straight during installation is a real pain. This has lead many to bolt plates to the T-Slots upon which the linear rials are bolted, this is na improvement but also an additional cost.

-Time - 1 year

Ahh plenty of time ����

Interestingly your post follows a pattern many have posted here. You have experience with an entry level machine and have come up against limitations that impact what you can do with the machine. The trick here is to make sure your new machine can address all the limitations you are being with the current machine and give you something that will be workable for sometime to come. This is where the hard thinking comes into play. You need to come up with a list of specifications that help you zero in on what an ideal build will be based on what you know know and what you think you may be doing in the future. In the end you need realistic expectation and a way to achieve them.

As a side note machining steel is a possibility on a router type machine but it might not be the type of machining that you expect. You will need to research this a bit because frankly steel machining is often better done on a milling machine. Engraving and working with extremely small cutters might be possible on a router but you won't be running 1/2" cutters on a low cost large format machine. Even engraving requires a machine that is stiff and has zero backlash.

In a nut shell you can get most of what you want for your budget. Things like auto lubrication will likely have to be added later and any visions of machining steel really require second and third looks.

[Atomic_Sheep]

Honestly this is a bit backwards as generally you want to get the mechanical design settled and then make sure your electrical solution is acceptable for it. this isn't a huge worry as many people put together machines out of found parts and bargains they can't resist. The problem is that sometimes you don't get what you want out of the machine.

My logic to this is that so far apart from aluminium which has cost me two bits, the basic Chinese machine does quite well. I've seen others machine aluminium with my machine so if something so basic can work with aluminium, I'm pretty confident that what I want to build will be able to as well so although it may seem backward, at the same time, my decision is based on a semi-educated guess. But after doing some research on ballscrew selection, I think I know what you're talking about and already have started to worry that my electronics might not be enough for the jobs I might be doing. Well fingers crossed I guess. I suppose to maximise the abilities of my restricted electronics I've got no choice but to go for ballscrews which I wanted to have anyway.

I'd put steel out of your mind when it comes to a large router type machine. It can be done but the results are so sub optimal as to only be worth it for trivial and vary occasional "machining". The problem is steel is best done on a very stiff machine and ideally with plenty of coolant. Building a machine to do this properly vastly increases your costs. It should be noted that to do the job well you really need to have support for coolant when machining aluminum but at least here you can get by with a less stiff machine.

Yes totally forgot about coolant for aluminum work, I probably need to add this to my requirements - preferably HP. And an enclosure of some kind to keep the coolant flying everywhere, preferably something more sophisticated than a shower curtain that I've seen some use.

These systems can be surprisingly expensive and may blow your budget. Generally if you can afford them it is a good idea.

Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks wizard, interesting information.

The only update I've got is that I'm aiming for ground ballscrews - not sure what grade yet. That's all the research that I've managed to do so far - going slower than I want but still finishing the electronics on my current machine which is diverting attention somewhat. Pretty sure my Chinese CNC has rolled screws and they are not bad, I've been quite surprised by the accuracy, but at the same time disappointed that it's not better, but for the price not surprised it's not.

Looks like I can't edit old posts which is a bit disappointing but oh well.

Additional Requirements:
-Coolant for working with aluminium - preferably a HP system.
-Transparent enclosure to keep coolant flying everywhere.
-Ground ballscrews (not sure what grade yet).
-Time - 51 weeks left

Ammendment to Existing Requirements:
-What I want to machine: woods, plastics, aluminium and possibly mild steel (although I don't have a the slightest idea as to what mild steel I would be machining. I want the most versitile machine I can get.
Looks like steel is most likely out, might look into getting a separate milling machine when required to do steel work.

[wizard]

My logic to this is that so far apart from aluminium which has cost me two bits, the basic Chinese machine does quite well. I've seen others machine aluminium with my machine so if something so basic can work with aluminium, I'm pretty confident that what I want to build will be able to as well so although it may seem backward, at the same time, my decision is based on a semi-educated guess. But after doing some research on ballscrew selection, I think I know what you're talking about and already have started to worry that my electronics might not be enough for the jobs I might be doing. Well fingers crossed I guess. I suppose to maximise the abilities of my restricted electronics I've got no choice but to go for ballscrews which I wanted to have anyway.

I think I might not have communicated well here. My point was that you are better off settling on the mechanical design before buying controls hardware. The way I understood your post is that you already have some of the controls purchased that might be a problem.

Yes totally forgot about coolant for aluminum work, I probably need to add this to my requirements - preferably HP. And an enclosure of some kind to keep the coolant flying everywhere, preferably something more sophisticated than a shower curtain that I've seen some use.

Yep if you have a focus on aluminum, more than casual machining here or there, you really need to focus on a coolant system solution. Adding an enclosure adds a bit of expense to the machine as does the pump and tank.

Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks wizard, interesting information.

The only update I've got is that I'm aiming for ground ballscrews - not sure what grade yet.

On a limited budget? Honestly I don't think it is worth it.

That's all the research that I've managed to do so far - going slower than I want but still finishing the electronics on my current machine which is diverting attention somewhat. Pretty sure my Chinese CNC has rolled screws and they are not bad, I've been quite surprised by the accuracy, but at the same time disappointed that it's not better, but for the price not surprised it's not.

You are trying to build a router on a limited budget, this isn't the world on high precision machining. You can build a router capable of some pretty outstanding precision, relative to other routers, but this own't be a cheap machine by any means. The first issue is building a machine out of structural components stiff enough to not be a problem with the precision you want. The machine becomes expensive simply due to the mass of the components and the machine shop time to work them to any level of precision.

Looks like I can't edit old posts which is a bit disappointing but oh well.

I think there is a time limit. Even so after a bit I just leave all the typos in place.

Additional Requirements:
-Coolant for working with aluminium - preferably a HP system.
-Transparent enclosure to keep coolant flying everywhere.
-Ground ballscrews (not sure what grade yet).
-Time - 51 weeks left

I'd work on a frame that can handle you precision and coolant containment issues first. You can go to ground ball screws later after the machine has ran some. Good ground ball screws are very expensive.

Ammendment to Existing Requirements:
-What I want to machine: woods, plastics, aluminium and possibly mild steel (although I don't have a the slightest idea as to what mild steel I would be machining. I want the most versitile machine I can get.

Depending upon what you mean by machining steel you may have to give up on that pursuit. Low end router type machines just aren't stiff enough. If you want to machine steel you should be looking at Bridge Mills as a design prototype.

Looks like steel is most likely out, might look into getting a separate milling machine when required to do steel work.

A milling machine may very well be required for anything you expect to machine to an extremely high accuracy or expect a very high surface finish. The problem is your budget simply won't permit a high end build so you have to compromise in some manner or another.

[Atomic_Sheep]

Well, I've been away doing a bunch of other stuff not related to CNC so the build has been on a backburner. But have been thinking about it on and off and a thought crossed my mind.

Yep if you have a focus on aluminum, more than casual machining here or there, you really need to focus on a coolant system solution. Adding an enclosure adds a bit of expense to the machine as does the pump and tank.

I'm worried that a coolant system might damage the spindle. I'm not sure how robust these chinese 2.2kw spindles are when they have a stream of liquid thrown at them:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=2...=2560&bih=1316

I guess a better question is what sort of cooling is necessary for aluminium work?

Also, I saw this build and it looks really neat and was wondering what everyone thinks of it bearing in mind that I'm interested in some aluminium machining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzgWPiOiHKM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-YGZFbkb9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQP-uF0A2aw

[Atomic_Sheep]

Sorry, looks like the youtube links didn't work, please search:

"2.2Kw Spindle on newly complete Z axis with new Y axis rails in place "
"My 3 Axis CNC Router base almost finished"
"My CNC Router progress update 2"

All videos are by Glen Lewis

[A_Camera]

Sorry, looks like the youtube links didn't work, please search:

"2.2Kw Spindle on newly complete Z axis with new Y axis rails in place "
"My 3 Axis CNC Router base almost finished"
"My CNC Router progress update 2"

All videos are by Glen Lewis

The links are working for me, so perhaps there was a temporary issue.

Nice build, I like it. I just don't understand why did you modify the Z guides and removed some of the support material.

[KH0UJ]

DAMN!!! What a build!!! that`s freakin huge man probably if I owned that machine that size I can build tank parts on it dont worry about the 2.2K chinese spindle, just add water on it on a 5 gallon bucket with cap to prevent it from dust contamination, you can run it all day without overheating with just a 5 gallon bucket of water and cap sealed, you can upgrade your steppers to a thicker ones if you want more torque specially on working with metals, Good Job on your Build.

[fretman_2]

Good looking build!!!

Well, I've been away doing a bunch of other stuff not related to CNC so the build has been on a backburner. But have been thinking about it on and off and a thought crossed my mind.



I'm worried that a coolant system might damage the spindle. I'm not sure how robust these chinese 2.2kw spindles are when they have a stream of liquid thrown at them:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=2...=2560&bih=1316

I guess a better question is what sort of cooling is necessary for aluminium work?

Also, I saw this build and it looks really neat and was wondering what everyone thinks of it bearing in mind that I'm interested in some aluminium machining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzgWPiOiHKM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-YGZFbkb9E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQP-uF0A2aw

[Atomic_Sheep]

This isn't my build guys. As I said, I found it as inspiration. Looking to run it past you guys for comments because I want to take a lot of elements from it for my build.

Nice build, I like it. I just don't understand why did you modify the Z guides and removed some of the support material.

Sorry I don't follow in relation to Z guides. You mean the two pieces connecting the side plates of the gantry? One behind each guide rail rather than just one large piece?

[Outlawtaz]

Well, I've been away doing a bunch of other stuff not related to CNC so the build has been on a backburner. But have been thinking about it on and off and a thought crossed my mind.



I'm worried that a coolant system might damage the spindle. I'm not sure how robust these chinese 2.2kw spindles are when they have a stream of liquid thrown at them:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=2...=2560&bih=1316

I guess a better question is what sort of cooling is necessary for aluminium work?

Check out a Koolmist system. Unless you a hogging aluminum and producing a ton of chips, you dont need flood coolant. With a misting system like Koolmist, you use air to remove chips and the mist of the coolant keeps your tooling cooled off.

[skrubol]

Mist or MQL (Minimum Quantity Lubrication,) is fine for Aluminum. Not quite as good as flood, but should keep the chips from welding to the tool. There are plenty of very inexpensive chinese clones of mist systems as well that I'm sure aren't as good as the real deal, but they'll do the trick.
Generally with mist or MQL you'll use something closer to oil, so damaging the spindle shouldn't be a concern. MQL is the way to go if you plan on using it a lot, uses a lot less coolant, and doesn't put nearly as much in the air, so it's healthier.