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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Fadal > 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    1632

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Flip the way covers over on top of the table to get them out of your way.
    I centered my table, removed the left hand side ball screw support bearing, then ran the table to the left so I could remove the ball nut bolts and oil line.
    After that, I removed the motor, coupling, then bearing retainer nut. The screw all came out the left side of the machine. My X axis is all pinned so alignment on it should be easy.

    Not bad at all.

    Richard

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    417

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Yes you do not remove the table. Its tight it can be hard to get to those bolts where the nut attaches to the table. 1996 probably has the Aluminum block on the table originally the table mount was cast right on the table and all you did was loosen the bolts it was a little easier to align

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by rodney247 View Post
    Yes you do not remove the table. Its tight it can be hard to get to those bolts where the nut attaches to the table. 1996 probably has the Aluminum block on the table originally the table mount was cast right on the table and all you did was loosen the bolts it was a little easier to align
    Correct it has the alloy block.
    Do I only need to undo the screw? I imagine the block stays put?

  4. #24
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    Oct 2008
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    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    I left my block attached to the table and just removed the bolts holding the nut to the block.
    When I removed the support bearing block from the left side, I had a straight shot to the bolts holding the ball nut. I used a long extension and got them with ease.
    That seemed easier than trying to work under the table.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    417

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    I Concur

    Gough Customs does a full video of a Fadal rebuild actually a fantastic video. Now it doesn't apply to every type of machine, But all Fadals generally followed the same logic in design. (Less so for the 4525, 3525, and the 6535) here are the videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP158y03VxQ and

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcea8wwSfbo&t=255s

  6. #26
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    Jan 2010
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    I left my block attached to the table and just removed the bolts holding the nut to the block.
    When I removed the support bearing block from the left side, I had a straight shot to the bolts holding the ball nut. I used a long extension and got them with ease.
    That seemed easier than trying to work under the table.
    Thanks
    Hoped that was the case.

    I actually have one of those vmc10's as well. I have the 3/4 guard on mine. Has been faultless for the last 6 years. It will get some maintenance once the 4020 has been finished. Just thrust bearings and couplings.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    321

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Well after pulling the y axis screw I replaced the thrust bearings and rebelled the screw. The screw had 6.34mm balls in it and replaced them with 6.35mm.
    The screw back lash went from 0.02mm to less than 0.01mm maybe 0.008mm.
    I still had 0.01mm movement on the end of the screw even with a 0.05mm shim between the thrust bearings. I then replaced that shim with a 0.07mm shim and that didn't seem to make a difference. Still 0.01mm screw movement. I put a dti on the thrust bearing housing and failed to notice any movement so it has to be in either the bearings still or the bearing cap near the coupling.
    I think I will remove the motor and coupling half and see if I can get some movement out of the bearing cap. If no movement then I will add a thicker shim between the bearings and see what happens.

    All in all so far a great result as backlash setting has gone from 30 to 7 so considering it was 5 from the factory I think this is ok for an old screw.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    321

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Does anyone know how to disengage the hi/low belt tensioner? I need to update the spindle from the motor to see of my bearing noise is spindle or motor.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    1632

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    If you want to be able to disengage both at once then....
    Disconnect and bleed the air off from the machine. Go to the top of the head and find where the 1/4" tubing from the cylinders go into the square amplifier on the orientation bridge. The hoses plug into the center of that block, and that is a sliding check valve. Make sure to push the center of those in all the way. Now, you can grab the idlers and pull them back by hand.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    171

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    On the thrust bearing issue, we stock and offer the bearings you need as well as the seals. The bearings already come shimmed and ready for installation. We have all the technical manuals on our web site: https://www.fadalcnc.com/tech-docs. We also have technical tips for common repairs and adjustments and tweet weekly problems and solutions with customers we help. https://www.fadalcnc.com/tech-tips. We also have videos showing how to do various installations: https://www.youtube.com/user/FadalCNCtv.

    We offer free technical assistance with any part you are trying to install as well as machine issues. We also have 3 service techs that fly all over the country and overseas doing Fadal service so if you need anything, we at FadalCNC.com can help.

    The long and short of it is you have just purchased the best supported machine in the world.

  11. #31
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    Jan 2010
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    If you want to be able to disengage both at once then....
    Disconnect and bleed the air off from the machine. Go to the top of the head and find where the 1/4" tubing from the cylinders go into the square amplifier on the orientation bridge. The hoses plug into the center of that block, and that is a sliding check valve. Make sure to push the center of those in all the way. Now, you can grab the idlers and pull them back by hand.
    Thank you worked a treat
    Unfortunately my spindle is stuffed.

    Where is the best place to purchase a spindle?
    I know the major guys have them but is one better than the other?

  12. #32
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    Oct 2008
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    1632

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe a few folks will chime in with their experience.


    I hope I'm not faced with that for awhile but the way my luck has been going there's no telling. Another $3k for a spindle is not in the budget for me right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deano7/11 View Post
    Thank you worked a treat
    Unfortunately my spindle is stuffed.

    Where is the best place to purchase a spindle?
    I know the major guys have them but is one better than the other?

  13. #33
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    Jan 2010
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe a few folks will chime in with their experience.


    I hope I'm not faced with that for awhile but the way my luck has been going there's no telling. Another $3k for a spindle is not in the budget for me right now.
    I have heard slight issues with both major providers so neither come 'highly recommended' for a spindle

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    417

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Well if you are getting another spindle and you are pretty mechanically savy and the Taper looks great . You could always rebuild the spindle yourself. If you take your time and notes during the disassembly. And if you can get the bearings out properly (Note when ever a spindle was disassembled at the factory the Bearings fell apart when removed from the spindle housing. ALTHOUGH its a $800-1000 dolla mistake if you damage the bearings during reassembly. One thing to keep in mind is if this was a Mori, Matsur, Okum this type of repair can cost $30,000. So you got alot of wiggle room.... lol....... Just watch this video gives you a good idea what your up against

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slV5mJ34Cmw

  15. #35
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    Jan 2010
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    321

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Food for thought. I would like to try it but I also don't want to stuff it up.

    A new spindle delivered will cost me about 7k with taxes and duty and freight so for about 1k worth of bearings is it worth the risk?
    Have you done a fadal spindle rebuild?

  16. #36
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    Oct 2008
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    1632

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Of course, I don't rebuild spindles so take this with a grain of salt, but in my view, it seems the two most important things that must be on the money, would be the type/amount of grease in the bearings, and the perfect amount of bearing preload. I think the rest of it would be standard disassembly, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, and inspection. I believe Fadal documents their recommended preload procedures if I remember correctly.

    The video of Global Spindle Reman made me cringe several times.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    344

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    Of course, I don't rebuild spindles so take this with a grain of salt, but in my view, it seems the two most important things that must be on the money, would be the type/amount of grease in the bearings, and the perfect amount of bearing preload. I think the rest of it would be standard disassembly, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, and inspection. I believe Fadal documents their recommended preload procedures if I remember correctly.

    The video of Global Spindle Reman made me cringe several times.
    I always wondered how they remanned spindles. Now I know that I would never want a Renan built by them. Jeeslus that video had tons of cringe in it for high dollar spindles. If I had time and needed an new spindle I’d probably try to do it myself.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    18

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Deano 7/11
    If you need any control boards, I have a full system for sale, along with a remote MPG control.

  19. #39
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    Jan 2010
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by euroflo View Post
    Deano 7/11
    If you need any control boards, I have a full system for sale, along with a remote MPG control.
    I am ok for the boards unless you want stuff all for them.
    Remote not I am interested in. Not sure where it plugs in to. Mine was never optioned with one.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    148

    Re: 1996 4020ht - new to me, much maintenance required

    Quote Originally Posted by Deano7/11 View Post
    Food for thought. I would like to try it but I also don't want to stuff it up.

    A new spindle delivered will cost me about 7k with taxes and duty and freight so for about 1k worth of bearings is it worth the risk?
    Have you done a fadal spindle rebuild?
    There's somebody in Aus who rebuilds spindles, he goes by 'Machtool', maybe here, and certainly on other forums. He's mentioned Fadal spindles in the past, so I believe he's rebuilt them.

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