[scadvice]

Nice looking part what is your run time to make one? Just curious...
Steve

[gn3dr]

I welded them together for a few years, than I thought about this approach. it saves me from welding, I can adjust the dims as needed, and yes it looks cool. the incoming radius, and runner dims are crucial. It cost 200.00 for the piece of alum, when it is all done (2 runner sections, and a plenum welded to it) it is worth 4500.00.

I use the normal 3d viacad. I dont know what unwrapping means, so I cant answer that.

so yes it is worth it to me.
thanks
cw

People will pay 4500 for a manifold. I'm in the wrong country and dealing with the wrong guys.

[warfish3651]

Nice looking part what is your run time to make one? Just curious...
Steve

I have 8hrs per part into it now. I can get all the other machine work done, and the runners roughed out in about 5, then the finish takes about 1 hr a side.

[Allen123]

I have had such a bad expierence with Bobcad v22 that I wouldn't mind seeing them go under they dont care about their mistakes so why should the people who got scewed by them help keep them floating we shouldn't as far as I am concerned. They told me all of this crap about how much better v23 is and here I am thinking in my head they while they say oh it doesn't do 4th axis milling totally Im thinking yeah that will be in v24 right and all of the fixes that v23 needed to huh. Yeah they dumped a v22 brokecad off on alot of people and you know after that screw job I would rather blow alot of money on a good program and watch them sink then keep helping a company that will straight out screw people over on a version they know is bad then not even back it up by making it right to these people. Brokecad does not care. If they did then just like other companies that have problem they should be willing to upgrade v22 to v23 for cheap just to fix their mistakes. I am willing to bet that the mistake of screwing people over on v22 is going to shut them down you watch. KEPP UP THE GOOD WORK BROKECAD

I am sure that if you contacted BobCAD directly and spoke with someone about your problems they would come to a solution. BrokeCAD, as you call it, well you must have had a really bad time with the software, but it sounds like you are unwilling to work on a solution. As far as I know BobCAD 2007 and BobCAD 22 are the same software.
BobCAD V07 came out in march of 2007 and BobCAD V23 came out in what November 2008 or so. So that's 20 months of updated fixes feature enhancement and so on.

What other CAD CAM company upgrades / dates your software for 20 months for free?

BobCAD's new mid range products have gone through many changes and for what I use it for it's a really good program. Most of the issues I've had has to do with knowing how to use the software correctly. Now there has been a hand full of different bugs that BobCAD has fixed. Fixed in the V22. 1137 build on v22 works just fine.

I do not believe that if you spend alot of money on a CAD CAM system all of your problems go away.

You need training and have to take the time to learn what ever system you are running.

Just because you spend alot of money on a CAD CAM system doesn't mean it wont have bugs. All software no matter what the cost have bugs. Some companies do a better job of fixing them than others, but most it not all end up charging you in the end.

How much depends on the company.

I am sure, totally sure if you contact BobCAD directly and speak with someone other than your sales rep, you'll come to a solution that will solve your issues.

It sounds like you would want a copy of v23 but you don't want to pay for it Instead of praying for "brokecad" to go under, Why don't you talk to them and see what you can work out. I am sure there is a solution to get you going.

[DonW]

I should clarify what I said to say that since the fix, I run V22 fairly smoothly. My only real complaint is functionality. For example, right now I'm trying to work on a drawing for a mandolin. The top and back on these are arched, and there is a fancy scroll on it that is basically a curved-bottom inclined plane. The only way I can draw it is to project a series of points in the Z axis, and create a spline to hopefully match the original curve when looking at it from the top. I can't find any function of v22 where I can generate a surface for that area, or for that matter, an arch-topped instrument with recurves at the edges, etc. BobCAD just isn't sophisticated enough from a drawing standpoint for that type of work, although I'm sure it could handle the CAM code generating part just fine from an imported file.
While I can applaud BobCAD's efforts to add new features to make machining easier, they still lack the drawing tools that I need to consider it a serious design piece of software. Complex surfacing, splines, curves etc. are pretty much impossible with V22/23 from what I can tell. So when the sales guy on the phone tried to tell me I needed the better version, and I told him it wasn't worth my money, there was somewhat of a disconnect there as to what he was assuming I needed, and what I actually needed.
I guess had he come on the phone and asked me what type of work I wanted to do that I couldn't in V22, he would have saved us both a lot of breath, since it wasn't going to meet my needs. But he never asked the questions, and he just assumed that I was running a mill, and not a wood router. I can't fault BC for catering toward the metal machining industry, since probably most of their clientele use it in that capacity. But from my standpoint, it just lacks a lot of what I would consider to be basic drawing/designing tools. I do like the new Z-level cutting function though, and can see where that could be very useful for me in the future, if I could only get the design tools I need to work with it.

I should also add that when the good fix for V22 came out, the tech support folks were fantastic in helping me remedy my problems. I've had nothing but good support from those folks.

[Allen123]

"While I can applaud BobCAD's efforts to add new features to make machining easier, they still lack the drawing tools that I need to consider it a serious design piece of software. Complex surfacing, splines, curves etc. are pretty much impossible with V22/23 from what I can tell."

BobCAD V23 has splines, 2 types C and B or a spline that goes through the control point and one that goes tangent to it. There is also a blended feature that cool to.

If you have the Bobart you can use the deform option . This will let you pull and tug on the spline's control points just like a polly line in autocad . This can be very useful as well!

If you would like to post a 2D drawing of what you are trying to make maybe I can help show you some of the steps to take in BobCAD to do these surfaces you want.

From the sounds of it you already know how to surface complex parts in some other CAD system. Maybe some of those steps will carry over to BobCAD, and maybe I can help you see how to use those features that BobCAD does have.

BobCAD does have a general CAD package that covers all the basics. I call it a secondary CAD package. You primary system would be a solidworks or something like that. One that makes it easy to change the drawing and designs as needed. BobCAD is used best when you already know what it is you are trying to make.

[jerryw]

I bought V22 and while it kind of works I generally have to spend several hours manually editing the paths to remove cuts through space above the part and sensible cutting order etc. I contacted BobCad and was told that a fix would be available to fix this for version 22 shortly.
I am now told that to resolve the problems and get a useable output I need to spend another £1500 on a totally new version. I'm not impressed.
This is unfortunate as the software seems to have a lot of potential but I am not willing to throw money at it to resolve problems that should be dealt with at their expense.
I would certainly have been willing to consider upgrading for a version with new features but I expect problems to be sorted before they move on.
Their sales people are very good and persistent but I want a product that delivers what they promise.

Jerry

[Allen123]

Jerry

You can have the software post a good cut order, you just need to have a feature for every pocket or profile. Then the software will cut the pocket or profiles in the order they are in the tree.

( make sure to check cutting my feature or by tool sometimes that can cause an issue with the order of cut )

In the V23 they did change this by having an optimized option in every feature. This allows you to select multiple pockets or profiles ( at the same depth ) and have them cut in a good logical order.

You can get a good cut over in v22 it's just takes less steps in the v23.

[jerryw]

Hi
Thanks for the info
I already knew how to do this but the problem is that I mill some very complex parts with sets of vanes which are basically repeated features in a circular pattern. I may have 3 or 4 sets of up to 60 in each set so it is not really practical to manually create each in turn. If the design was fixed then it may be OK but I machine these to specific requirements and V22 hops around like a demented flea. I did contact BobCad to get advice but they told me that to resolve this I needed to upgrade to V23 which apparently has a new algorithm for determining pattern paths.

Thanks again
Jerry

[DonW]

Ok Allen, I'll put together a file with an outline of the basic shape, and a couple cross-sections. If you can pull it off with BC, I'll eat me hat. Or some crow...perhaps both.

[BurrMan]

Ok Allen, I'll put together a file with an outline of the basic shape, and a couple cross-sections. If you can pull it off with BC, I'll eat me hat. Or some crow...perhaps both.

I'll accept that challenge Don! Looking forward to your post. Seems I may be able to do it with "Broken Software" too!

Burr

[spock]

"I am sure, totally sure if you contact BobCAD directly and speak with someone other than your sales rep, you'll come to a solution that will solve your issues. "

With all due respect, I am totally sure you are wrong. When software doesnt work as advertised, it is their resposibility to fix it, 2 months or 20 months out. THAT IS THE solution. Not selling me another version. That is not solving the problem, it is ignoring it. That principle will not change if the software cost $10 or $10,000.

When the last fix for 22 came out, it fixed some problems, and caused some new ones. When I contacted Bobcad about a specific new problem with 3-d, they were nice enough to check it out and call me back and admit that this "new problem" was indeed real, and would go on the list of things to fix. 2 weeks later, 23 was out, and they are done with 22. What part of that is a solution? If I did my customers that way, I would lose them, and deservedly so. They would go find a real solution.

Some guy finally did call and try to sell me 23, and I very politly explained that I was not interested and why. "But it is sooooooo inexpensive" he kept saying. True, but what if it cannot properly cut a pocket without destroying the islands? Well lets see.....If history has taught me anything, I need to just hold out for v24!

Do you see the lack of logic? If we dont learn anything from the past we are doomed to repeat it.....

I already paid to be a beta tester once. I truly hope they have turned a corner, but I remember hearing that line when 22 came out.

[Clockwork]

Bob's website boasts about their long list of prominent customers. Included in this list is NASA.

I'm wondering if this rocket was designed using Bobcad.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJF01hlEfM"]YouTube - Rocket Crash[/ame]

[tobyaxis]

Bob's website boasts about their long list of prominent customers. Included in this list is NASA.

I'm wondering if this rocket was designed using Bobcad.

Bobcad really isn't a design software and I highly doubt any Engineer would use it for designing any type of rocket. It's not parametric and does not support assemblies.

This is by no means a rocket, but it is an assembly design which can be edited at any time to make adjustments for the future. You can also add and subtract parts or sub-assemblies which is primarily how rockets are designed today.

Anyone here remember doing this on a drafting table???

These are from Ralf3 on a different board. They will give you an idea of how assembly software makes things possible.

Bobcad does not do this so with all do respect I doubt they had anything to do with that rocket.

[Allen123]

BrokeCAD? When you say the software is broke and you can't use it. What do you really mean by that. There seems to be a hand full of guys here that are really unhappy with brokecad and you don't want to use it anymore. You say it's broke but what are you really saying.


All I want to do is help! I am a long time BobCAD user starting with v15. I don't have a shop of my own but I do work on projects from time to time.

I am not saying you haven't had problems with BobCAD. I have had many problems with BobCAD over the years. But with all the problems I always was able to get my jobs done.

The newer software from BobCAD starting with V07 has been some of the best software I have ever used from BobCAD. Yes I own a copy of V23 standard. I mostly post to Mach3.

I really like using BobCAD and some times it can be challenging, but at the end of the day I always seem to get what I need done in both 2D and 3D.

I post from time to time to try to help people with BobCAD and the things I have learned.

Again I am not saying you haven't had problems with BobCAD, but to say it is broke and you can't use it at all is just not true!

To say you can't get support or help with the software is not true either.

When I work with people and their problems I always learn more about BobCAD. So call me at any time and we can hook up online. 727-744-2276 any maybe you can change my mind about BobCAD.

Or maybe I will be the last standing BobCAD customer. Either way I will continue to use BobCAD, and I'll be happy about it.

[Allen123]

I got this right from BobCAD's website:

SOFTWARE GUARANTEES:



BobCAD-CAM software will generate G-Code for 99% of all G-Code based machines. If BobCAD-CAM software purchased can not generate usable G-Code for your machine control, you may request a RMA # and refund under the listed Return Guidelines.



If the BobCAD-CAM software purchased will not perform a function advertised on our official web site, www.bobcad.com, you may request a RMA # and refund under the listed Return Guidelines.

[DonW]

For what I payed for the software, I probably have paid for it for the amount of work I've been able to do with it. I didn't pay a real lot for my V22, so it's been worth the money for me. Sure, things don't necessarily work the way they're supposed to, but there's usually a way to get it to work. I still can't get "Offset Pocket In" and "Offset Pocket Out" to work, so I use "Lace Zigzag" instead. It's not ideal, but it works somewhat. Also, if I try to leave a side allowance, it crashes.

What I would seriously suggest to BobCad is to fix all these types of issues with V22, or if they have indeed decided to stop supporting and fixing V22, then give a free upgrade to V23, or charge for just the cost of the disc and shipping. A product that doesn't do what it is supposed to do isn't a good thing for either the customer or the company. It would be like Microsoft selling MS Excel, but without the ability to reference other cells in a multiplication function, or limiting the number of cells that it can add up with the SUM function. Hello!
Don't abandon the V22 customers who have stuck with it. Make them happy as best you can, and go to any effort to do so.

As to upgrading to a new version every year, I don't mind paying for something that has better functionality, and new features, but as others have said, I shouldn't be asked to spend more money just to get the features that are supposed to work but don't. I would humbly suggest that BC should give those V22 customers a free upgrade to V23, or charge for only the cost of the CD and shipping.
Then, instead of coming out with a totally new product every year, Nix the "Vxx" philosphy, and Call it simply BobCAD/CAM, and offer a simple maintenance upgrade fee once a year, for maybe $150 or so, which is reasonable. Create an e-newsletter to let customers know about upcoming changes and when they are coming out. Communicate better. Let customers know how the progress is going on expected fixes and changes. Don't rely on forums to do that.
Continue to offer a Pro version, and also offer an upgrade from BobCAD/CAM to BobCAD/CAM Pro, and then charge the annual maintenance fee to provide ongoing fixes and feature changes as with the other levels.

I remember participating in a thread here around 9-10 months ago where BC was asking us what features we would like to see added to V22 in the future. We all chimed in positively with some very good suggestions, and also made it clear that we felt and expected that the issues in V22 should be dealt with as a higher priority than what new features should be added. Apparently, it fell on deaf ears, as the functionality of V22 still isn't even approaching 100% of claims. V23 is now out, and they're probably already well into the design and sales pitch planning for V24. This is no way to do business. I've said it before and I'll say it again...BC needs to slow down it's plans and expectations for sales of new products, and concentrate on making what they have better. Eliminate the sales tactics, and become a company that is known for a great product and great service, and the sales will come naturally. (Build a better _ _ _ _ , and they will beat a path to your door) If they are focused on having a partially functional product released every year, they will only be sealing their fate. The P.T. Barnum philosophy will only get you so far before people get wise to you.
Geez, do I have to move to Florida and buy the company to get things fixed down there?

[BurrMan]

Hi Don,
JFYI, We also had the problems with pocketing as you describe, Lace zigzag wasnt an option for us. The last build of V22 works. Make sure your running Build 1137 to do the pocket operations you describe.

Burr

[DonW]

Ok, when was that build? The last one I downloaded was the big one last May or June, or whenever the heck it was. Sometime back then.

Edit.
I just looked. I'm on build 1077. Looks like I need to do some downloading...

[BurrMan]

Ok, when was that build? The last one I downloaded was the big one last May or June, or whenever the heck it was. Sometime back then.

Edit.
I just looked. I'm on build 1077. Looks like I need to do some downloading...

We still had the pocketing issue in that build too.

Do a full uninstall of "Both" bobcad and predator first.

Burr.