[billmiller]

This is for Vermont:
I had a problem with a purchase and I used the Internet Fraud Center. They have a protocol of forms you fill out on line and you can upload documents that support your case of fraud.

In my case I made a report with my local police department concerning the non delivery of goods within 30 days of a transaction. It ended up being 6 months like yourself.

They contacted the local sheriffs department and attorney general who then sent a letter to the individual that did not deliver on a purchase I made.

The letter stated that if he did not reply and or deliver the goods or refund, he would have a warrant for his arrest within ten days.

The next day I had a verification of shipment with tracking numbers.
Everything worked like majic. Try it out.

[banctecbobn]

JT just give Vermont his money back.

I would feel just like Vermont and would be using this forum, as a tool, to resolve the issue as others have in the past. There are countless entries in this and other forums of unhappy customers needing what seems to be a simple solution. What will it hurt? Refund his money in full. Then sell the machine to the next customer. No skin off your nose.

I was once told that every upset customer will run off ten. If this holds water, you just lost 10 sales trying to hold on to this one.

Have a great day,
Bob

[joeybagadonuts]

Billmill,

Vermont is refusing to take delivery of the machine, this is not a case of Internet fraud. I all ready suggested that Vermont takes delivery of the machine and sell raffle tickets.
JoeyB

[gmfoster]

Billmill,

Vermont is refusing to take delivery of the machine, this is not a case of Internet fraud. I all ready suggested that Vermont takes delivery of the machine and sells raffle tickets.
JoeyB

Joey

From JT's Site..

Start Quote
12 MONTH TRIAL PERIOD

"Try a SHOPMASTER* for a full 12 months. If , for any reason, within 30 days of the end of the trial period** you decide to return your SHOPMASTER, call our customer service department at 800 343 5775. We will assist you to arrange shipping back to us. When we receive the machine we will refund your original purchase price less any freight charges. Please note our warehouse DOES NOT accept freight collect shipments. It is your responsibility to package the machine properly for shipping. Any shipping damage due to poor packaging will be deducted from your refund. Normal wear is expected, but damage or rust due to neglect or abuse will be deducted from the refund amount. On machines sold with a free freight special, the actual cost of the original freight will be deducted from the refund amount."
End Quote

The machine hasn't even been shipped so there should be no problem getting the money back. The wording is pretty clear. Seems open and shut that JT shouldn't have any problem giving the money back. The customer obviously isn't satisified. And quote "If For ANY reason."

[salzburg]

If you guarantee satisfaction than you refund 100% of the money.
Waiting 5 month for delivery would make me dissatisfied and cancel
the order.

[joeybagadonuts]

Gmfoster,

You neglected to read the entire warranty statement, it is posted in plain veiw.


** You must use your machine for the full 12 month trial period. Machines returned prior to this will be on a consignment for sale basis. Any tools or accessories returned will be credited to your account toward future purchases,.No cash refunds are given.

JoeyB

[gmfoster]

Gmfoster,

You neglected to read the entire warranty statement, it is posted in plain veiw.


** You must use your machine for the full 12 month trial period. Machines returned prior to this will be on a consignment for sale basis. Any tools or accessories returned will be credited to your account toward future purchases,.No cash refunds are given.

JoeyB

Joey your hope less.. I also saw you trolling on the stepper design thread a year or so ago...

Of course I read that, but if he will give you your money back on a well used lathe he would now on a new never used lathe he could sell tomorrow.. He is also supposed to take one back for a restocking fee of 5 %..

He also didn't deliver when promised.

Plus he has supposedly stated that he don't have the money....
If he don't have the money after 27 years of business he won't have it in a year when he is trying to sell the business.

I have done Business with JT and know how he operates...Thank goodness it was only a 50.00 item. I got lucky..

Garry

[joeybagadonuts]

Garry,

Did you read the part that says "NO CASH REFUNDS"?

JoeyB

[dertsap]

I would like to hear JT's side of the story but if he has integrity then he won't disclose customer confidentiality , so we probably won't here his side . I followed the other thread and thought it could easily be interpreted as nothing less than internet blackmail . the poster has just become a member , was aggressive in his post as well as aggressive toward anyone else who had posted anything positive .

I can easily understand the frustration on both sides because there are bad sellers just as there are bad customers so I'm not going to question anyone's integrity or jump a band wagon because its unfair to anyone at this point .

A good place to start with these types of issues is with the BBB , paying cash or money order doesn't offer any buyer protection . credit cards will offer some protection if you get on them about an issue

[joeybagadonuts]

Dertsap,

I agree 100 percent with what you are saying.
How could a vendor stay in business for 27 years if he was dishonest?

JoeyB

[dertsap]

Dertsap,

I agree 100 percent with what you are saying.
How could a vendor stay in business for 27 years if he was dishonest?

JoeyB

many of them do manage to stay in business , but under these circumstances I'm impartial because I don't know who is right and who is wrong ,am I supposed to take the words of some guy that I have never heard of before as golden ? or unspoken words from the other side .
the thing is some people act as though they can dump on someone because they have spent a few dollars while on the other hand some people who are holding other peoples money feel they can dump on them because they are in control . it works both ways
aggressive competitors can create setups to attack another company , anything is possible ( I'm sure this is not the case)
all that I have seen is one side to the story , and it is something that may or may not be slanderous and will be necessarily or unnecessarily damaging to the company
so if the company is dishonest then they will probably get what they've got coming , if they are honest then they don't need others to jump in to the kill

[Mariss Freimanis]

Be sure to thank Joey. He is one reason why I'll never do another motor drive design blog on the CNCzone.

Mariss

[billmiller]

I looked shopmaster up on the BBB website and they do have a F rating. It involves two costomer complaints in the last three years. Not too bad really. Im sure there is more but things get back ordered all the time in companies and when your dealing with thousands of miles across the ocean, time gets consumed.

[joeybagadonuts]

Mariss,

I really miss your design blogs.
To bad you are not doing them, I would be happy to contribute.
Sorry to hear the bad news.
JoeyB

[Vermont]

I would like to thank everyone for your valued comments and suggestions.

I have to ask JoeyB what is your interest in this dispute? You seem to have some pretty strong opinions about why I am not entiltled to a refund? Why is that? One might think that you are JT? Also, your quote about "no cash refunds" has nothing to do with my Invoice/Contract.

Now, for clarification of what my Invoice/Contract says: "All orders are considered final at time of payment. There is a fee of 5% (total) for all cancellations. Customers are responsible for all shipping charges, including that on returns". No where in MY contract that says JT has a right to keep my cash. I cancelled my order. Period. Send me my money now!

Now, I ask you (the people reading this), who in there right mind would even consider taking delivery of the machine after the way I've been HANDLED? Does JT have Integrity? Not in my book. There is no way, in this lifetime of mine, I will take delivery of one of his machines. He has completely shattered any trust we may have had prior to January 6th. Plus it will cost another $600 for delivery with "no guarantee" that the machine is complete and working "as claimed". I have both time and resources to keep playing this GAME as long as it takes.

Also, I really love my new Tormach PCNC 1100 and Duality lathe I bought since JT couldn't meet my delivery requirements. Tormach is an unbelievable machine for the money and their customer support and satisfaction is second to none. The extra price was well worth it because I have confidence in their product and their company. From placing my order to delivering the machine to operating it has been seemless.

[dertsap]

have you sought legal advise

[joeybagadonuts]

Vermont,

If the invoice states "All orders are considered final at time of payment" and you paid, then it sounds like the order was finalized.
I don't understand how you can cancel a order that is final.

I suggested taking the machine and raffling it to recoup your money after you canceled your order.
Dertsap's suggestion to seek legal advise might be a good idea, screaming about it on the Forum is not going to help you get any money.

JoeyB

[bowman1964]

Well i think it will be close to a end, i spoke to john Friday evening and he told me his side which i won’t get into since it would be unfair to repeat what was said. i will say this, he never said a bad word about Vermont but he told me he had figured a way to take care of him. Now that was Friday evening so hopefully this will be ending soon

[smallblock]

JT just give Vermont his money back.

I would feel just like Vermont and would be using this forum, as a tool, to resolve the issue as others have in the past. There are countless entries in this and other forums of unhappy customers needing what seems to be a simple solution. What will it hurt? Refund his money in full. Then sell the machine to the next customer. No skin off your nose.

I was once told that every upset customer will run off ten. If this holds water, you just lost 10 sales trying to hold on to this one.

Have a great day,
Bob

I've been dealing with JT for 17 years now and am on my 3rd Shoptask/Shopmaster machine and am seriously looking at the new VFD model. One thing you miss is that JT doesn't read these forums - in fact he does not even advertise his products anywhere. The only way you will know about him is either from someone who has one or by accidentally finding his website. He told me that he has sold about 14000 machines in the past 30 years or so, so having a few guys like Vermont is not unusual. Also, there are always 2 sides to every story, and I am always skeptical when one guy wails loudly that he was 100% right in a dispute. I doubt that a very large percentage of his sales come from this forum and he sells pretty much more that he can get anyway, as evidenced by all the guys paying up front and waiting for weeks or months to get the machines. I'm sure he will settle up with this guy when they come to an agreement.
The guy bought a Tormach machine, so I suspect he may have just changed his mind and maybe tried to leave JT holding a machine with all the bells and whistles attached.

[Rekd]

Now, I ask you (the people reading this), who in there right mind would even consider taking delivery of the machine after the way I've been HANDLED?

I would.

All we've heard is you rail on and on and get hostile towards everyone who doesn't immediately jump on your bandwagon.

You need to take this dispute off this forum and seek legal advice. I get the feeling we won't be hearing JT's side of the story here, which is fine. But in the mean time I don't want the members to have to continue listening to you badmouth him. And I don't want to have to keep moderating your posts after members report them.

Please don't bring this up here again until you have resolved the problem. If you want to let us know (without badmouthing) how it ends up, that's great. But don't keep coming here and trying to get people to hate him.

Thanks.