500,643 active members
6,756 visitors online
Register for free
Login
Page 3 of 3 123
Results 25 to 32 of 32
  1. #25
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    Polillo,

    Thank you for your reply.

    Yes, we have checked everything(?) and it still won't work. The Vector Drive goes into Fault mode even without the 325V line connected, so we suspect there's still something wrong with it that wasn't discovered during the repair. So we're in the process of sending it back to the repair center in Germany for another check.

    Best Regards,

    Gyro_Gearloose

  2. #26
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    23

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    Dear Gyro_Gearloose
    if the alarm is 123 drive spindle fault and energy regenerative the problem this in control tage not in source power
    in the power stage do not problem
    the problem this in control stage normaly in source conmuted has several small circuits that make the control in vectorial unit
    i suggest check the control stage in my case there i found problem. is necesary check all elements one to one and be doing tests for detected wich elements failling.
    you can feed the power unit stage whit a transformer to test this for check elements, do not for check output of the vector this can only on the machine unless you can simulate machine outside for test.
    I hope this helps with your problem


    regards

  3. #27
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    So far, so good.

    Last Friday I opened all four servo amplifiers for a visual check. I found that one of them had two blown capacitors and another had capacitors with signs of high internal pressure. Being a careful man, I ordered new capacitors and thermal pads for all four amps and desoldered all 24 IGBTs to test them separately. They all tested OK so when the new components arrived yesterday I assembled everything and tested the circuit boards again. Almost as on que, the Vector Drive came back from Germany today with a new 25W pre-charge resistor for the 325V line (The old one had burned, causing the previous problem). I proceeded to install all components in the machine but tested the Vector Drive "alone" first, without anything connected to the 325V line. Now the big capacitors inside the VD charged up fine and the Fault LED went dark after a few seconds.

    Switching off the machine again and waiting for the HV to bleed off, I connected one servo amplifier at a time and restarted to see if anything would go boom.

    It didn't.

    Instead the amps came up with green LEDs one by one and the machine started up accordingly when all amplifiers were connected, without any nasty error messages! It was a darn good feeling when I could execute the "S500 M3" commands and hear the spindle starting! All axis are also moving accordingly so the amplifiers are OK too. I did, however, encounter an error message (Spindle drive fault) when stopping the spindle, where it took "forever" to slow down and stop. Most probably (hopefully!) this is caused by changing/disabling the spindle retardation parameter, this was done as a part of the initial troubleshooting and never set back to where/what it was initially. I'll take a looksee at that tomorrow. If the problem persists I'll replace the Regen IGBT again, just to be sure...

    And yes, the low voltage power supply I mentioned earlier is also fed from the 325V line, I found out when I ripped out the servo amps. This PSU feeds them with +/-12V.

    So that's the situation at the moment. Although "It ain't over until the fat lady sings", I can see this machine back in production after Easter. May I not be proven wrong.

    Best regards,

    Gyro_Gearloose

  4. #28
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    Hah, was I ever proven wrong!

    With orders and production volumes up in the skies, I haven't had time to do anything more with that machine until a couple of weeks ago. But finally I had some "spare" time to give our mill a little TLC. When checking, I found the main source for the problems; the Regen resistor pack had developed a break in the circuit! Probably all these years in service, heat and lots of vibrations finally killed two of the resistors. It all worked fine when the resistors were cold, but a crack in the resistive material opened up when they got warm, and then there just wasn't any regen anymore! Without the regen resistor, the bus voltage soars to well over 600V (reading went off the scale of my trusty old multimeter) and BOOM! - regardless of new VDRs in the 325V line. (Yea, I replaced those as well when I took care of the servo amplifiers.)

    But, I ordered a bunch of components; resistors, opto isolators and a new IGBT and replaced the whole shebang in the HV/Regen circuit w/o taking more time to troubleshoot. I also rebuilt the Regen resistor pack with new components and mounted a 12V fan inside it, fed from the AT PSU.
    Imagine my happydance when I first started the spindle on 500 RPM and then stopped it without any errors!!!:banana:

    Continuing to test with increaasing RPMs shows that that porion of the machine now is working accordingly.

    So now I've taken on a new part of this restoration, elliminating the nasty crunchy sound that the driveline makes when running on 800RPMs and above. So far I've split the motor/gearbox and sent the motor to Finland for bearing replacement. At least the drive side bearing in the motor is shot. The primary gear is probably heat-shrunk onto the motor axle and there was no-one in this city that could get it off. Tornion Sähköpojat (Electro-boys in Tornio) has specialized in this kind of work so it should be a walk in the park for them to replace the bearings.

    There is a grease cerk on the motor's end bell, but who the heck can imagine it's there, when it's hidden by two covers? I'll also replace all bearings in the gearbox and also replace the tachometer driveline: The tacho drivebelt is reduced to just a rag and the drivewheel coming out from the gearbox is severely worn down. I'll contact our local Haas distributor on Monday and ask for replacements, if they - as usual - don't have any other solution than to replace the entire motor/gearbox assembly (which will cost a bloomin' fortune!) I'll contact one of my former schools and ask them to make a new drivewheel for me. Will probably cost us a cake or two instead of around $4000... I know they have the drivebelt but I didn't see the wear on the drivewheel when I spoke with their tech so it wasn't mentioned.

    But now I see an end to this project, now my hope is that the machine will be back in service before the end of 2018, or at least in the very beginning of 2019. Do NOT wish me luck!

    Best regards,

    Gyro_Gearloose

  5. #29

    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    2

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    "I also downloaded Tayfunk's circuit diagram of the VD, it helped me a lot when doing the initial troubleshooting, Thanks a bunch, Tayfunk!"

    Hello Gearloose, I'm wondering if I could get the diagram of the VD from you?
    I have been having intermittent issues with alarm 123 spindle drive fault. Nothing serious YET! I would like to avoid a complete shutdown if at all possible. I have read on numerous forums that this is a common occurrence, but no one seems to have a clear reason and surefire fix for this. I would prefer it if I didn't have to replace a bunch of unnecessary items. Most all of my measurements have been within the prescribed ranges for the items that are in the power and control loops. I don't know what else to check that has not been discussed and therefore I would like a diagram of any and all associated circuits. Thanks for any help.

  6. #30

    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    2

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    "I also downloaded Tayfunk's circuit diagram of the VD, it helped me a lot when doing the initial troubleshooting, Thanks a bunch, Tayfunk!"

    Hello Gearloose, I'm wondering if I could get the diagram of the VD from you?
    I have been having intermittent issues with alarm 123 spindle drive fault. Nothing serious YET! I would like to avoid a complete shutdown if at all possible. I have read on numerous forums that this is a common occurrence, but no one seems to have a clear reason and surefire fix for this. I would prefer it if I didn't have to replace a bunch of unnecessary items. Most all of my measurements have been within the prescribed ranges for the items that are in the power and control loops. I don't know what else to check that has not been discussed and therefore I would like a diagram of any and all associated circuits. Thanks for any help.

  7. #31
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    Friend,

    First of all, please excuse the delay in my reply, I've been a wee bit busy lately.

    First of all: You should be able to use TayfunK's own download link: ?ndir to get the diagrams.

    Then, if the 123 error occurs when stopping the spindle (M5 command) from spindle speeds higher than 480-500RPM, you should absolutely check the regen resistors, and probably replace them! As I said in my previous post, I found that there was a break in two of the resistors that opened up when they got warm from use, which was the main reason for our problem. Our machine has the older type resistor package with five "sausages" inside, where the two biggest are connected in series, and the three smallest are also connected in series. These are then connected in parallel with eachother, creating the resulting resistance of approx. 8Ohms. All these resistors needs to be rated for 300W.

    A new complete regen resistor package from HAAS costs about $1100 here in Sweden, the resistors themselves costs around $150 - go figure... It took me approx. 30 mins to fix (including THOROUGH cleaning!), since the whole shebang is bolted together - even the electrical connections inside the box are done with scews. Newer regen resistor packages looks different, so I cannot say how to fix them since I haven't had my nose inside one.

    But I hope this helps you to keep your machine up and running, "eight and other good numbers" to you!

    Best Regards,

    Gyro_Gearloose

  8. #32
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    7

    Re: Alarm # 123 Spindle Drive Fault

    A small update on our Mikron VCE 1600 (which really is a rebranded HAAS VF6...)

    We got the innards of the motor back from Finland, with new bearings, cost us around $350 plus shipping there and back again. The man at Sähköpojat told me that they had to apply a little bit of heat along with 50 tonnes (110.200lbs+) of pressure to get the gear off and on again, along with a specially made tool. But they pulled it off! (pun intended!) Now, inbetween all our other jobs, I've cleaned out the gearbox and oil sump (there was almost ONE INCH of mud in that oil sump, yeccchhh!) and replaced all five bearings in the gearbox. I do NOT intend on replace the spindle bearings - at least not yet - since they still feel A-OK.
    When assembling the machine again (when will I get the time for it when we have so many customer jobs?) I'll also replace all three drive belts; both the two between the gearbox and spindle, and the tacho belt. Yes, HAAS could provide both the tacho belt AND the driving pulley! Wasn't hard to replace, a warm smile from a heat gun ensured that both the old pulley slid off the axle and the new one slid back on effortlessly. Just as a precaution I also made a 3D model of the tacho pulley but I don't need it now.

    Now HAAS states that the gearbox will be destroyed if taken apart (says clearly on the gearbox itself!) but so far I haven't encountered any bigger problems than when renovating any other gearbox - and it went together without a hitch. Now it's as silky smooth as it should be, compared to the old bearings that sounds and feels like stonecrushers.

    I've also renovated the gear changing mechanism, which is an air cylinder in front of the gearbox. The o-rings inside was absolutely worn out. This might explain why it was, at times, difficult to change between high and low gear. Most probably someone else had also been tinkering with that mechanism in earlier years, there was a lot of kinks on the copper pipes between the air valve and the air cylinder so I replaced the whole shebang. Note to self: There are two flow restrictors in the piping, slowing down and smoothing the gear change. Take great care when (dis)assembling this setup!

    Finally I will make a tool for tensioning the drive belts, I suspect this is a must for getting the gearbox on correctly and not wear out the new drivebelts prematurely. But after that, I guess (hope!) that I just have to put the covers back on and put the machine back into production! (Again, do NOT wish me luck!)

    Best Regards,

    Gyro_Gearloose

Page 3 of 3 123

Similar Threads

  1. Alarm 123 DRIVE FAULT on startup.
    By DZANDF in forum Haas Mills
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-14-2014, 01:25 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-06-2014, 05:01 PM
  3. 1992 VF2 Alarm 123 spindle Spindle Drive Fault
    By dafowfidy in forum Haas Mills
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-14-2012, 07:32 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-15-2010, 07:10 PM
  5. Alarm 123 Spindle Drive Fault
    By Shotout in forum Haas Mills
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-27-2007, 05:48 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •