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Thread: X4 or X5

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  1. #1
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    X4 or X5

    I am hoping to buy a new Syil mill in the next 2 to 3 months. My query was which would be the better machine to go with: an X4 Plus or X5 Plus. I will need cooland, 4th axis, def toolchanger (why I am waiting for a few months)

    Can anyone privide some advice on which option to go for?

    It will me machining aluminum mostly 6082 T6.

    Also do these machines have any maintenance issues/problems?

  2. #2
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    X5 Owner

    I recently purchase an X5 and went through the same decision. I finally went for the X5 because it had the linear ways. I have been very happy with my decision. I would have eventually went with these even had I purchased the X4 but decided to go with a complete engineered setup. I am impressed with the fit and finish of this machine and especially how well the wiring was done. I bought my with the stand and it makes a very nice package to which I have built an enclosure using the shipping crate material. I am in Mongolia and I am finding that it is difficult to get things here and I have had to make do with materials I have on hand.

    The only issue I have had is the step drive quite working but Syil was quick to send me a new one and I am back up and running. I have not had a lot of time to use the machine but it is very smooth and I am getting about 150ips rapids with 100 acceleration on all 3 axis.

    Happy to answer any questions you might have.

  3. #3
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    Question about your new X5

    2ndSteel,

    The Syil web site gives contradictory information about the y-travel: 5.86inch and 160mm for the y travel. Can you tell us the travels on your machine?
    Also does it come with manual lubrication system or automatic (web site say automatic but pictures shows a manual one)?
    So you cannot get the 200ipm rapids as advertised?
    How is your spindle? Does it get to 5000rpm? Does it get warm?
    Do the steppers get very warm?
    Finally, do you think a few guys can move this thing by themself if disasembled?
    Sorry for the many questions, I am really considering buying this machine but I hesitate between this one and the Tormach 770. I need to make a decision!
    Anyway, congratulation and have fun!

    Christian

  4. #4
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    May 2007
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    Talking to Keith, the auto oilers have recently been added and the photo's just don't show it yet.

  5. #5
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    Apr 2006
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    compare p770,x5 big advantage it is linear.
    lubrication system automatic.
    and reasonble cost.
    Direction,Commitment,Follow through

  6. #6
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    This is true Syil, but the Tormach has a 10000rpm spindle and a much larger y-axis travel which is what I always seem to lack on my little Taig. The less than 8inch on the X5 is a real bummer for me.
    Another thing that make me hesitant is the fact that your website seems to have contradictory information. It is a little worrysome for someone ready to spent 6 or 7 grands on a machine!
    I know everyone give you this type of advice on this site, and by no mean I intend to be condescanding. I am sorry some people on this site do that to you sometimes. I truly respect what you do I wish you all the success you deserve. But it is true that you should have someone checking your website for inconsistency as well as for english mistake. It should not be very expensive and would greatly improve the way people perceive your company (hell, I'll do it for a little discount on your x5 if you ask me! though I am not a native speaker either so my english is not so much better than yours). Also more videos! You need to keep future customer interested by posting a few video of the machines cutting. So far I have not really seen anything with the X5 in action. Send them to me if you cannot post them on youtube, I'll do it for you.

    This being said your X5 looks great, that's why I am interested. All I am saying is that it is not a clear cut at all. Not to mention the novakon 145, pretty sweet and cheaper than the x5 and pcn770 (with the stand).
    C.

  7. #7
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    I just go a chance to get back to you regarding the travels. I checked them last night when I got home. These travels are the mechanical limits at which the travel is physically stopped. X= 11.23". Y=5.92 and my Z is now 11.42. I have changed the air spring in the Z axis. With the original one the travel is limited to a little over 10". The machine I have has a manual oiler which was ok for my use.

    I have my travel speed set to 150 on X and 100 on Y and Z. I do have the acceleration set pretty high compared to what I see other settings. I am 75 on X and 60 on Y and Z. I had one file that I was loosing a couple of thousands on a 1 hour job in the Y and Z so I lowered the acceleration on these 2 axis and now it is very finishes the job with no loss. I have glass scales installed on all 3 axis so it was very easy to see what is happening. I can push on the x table and I get about .0005 movement showing so there is very little flex or backlash.

  8. #8
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    The Syil web site gives contradictory information about the y-travel: 5.86inch and 160mm for the y travel. Can you tell us the travels on your machine?
    Also does it come with manual lubrication system or automatic (web site say automatic but pictures shows a manual one)?

    See previous Post.

    So you cannot get the 200ipm rapids as advertised?
    200 ipm is possible if you tune down the acceration but the files I use are 3d and have a lot of Z movements in small steps and getting to speed is more important for me than top speed. The travel is very smooth with the linear rails and this was important to me. There seems to be a lot of issues with getting the gibs set just right so you don't have sticking problems or slop in your movement.

    How is your spindle? Does it get to 5000rpm? Does it get warm?
    The spindle does get to 5000. The control system with Mach works very well. I can set S=2000 and my actual speed is 2120 and the speed is very solid. I have run it at 3000 rpm for a couple of hours and the spindle is warm but not hot. The noise level is much lower that the Bridgeport that I have at home. I have not run it at 5000 for any length of time but I did not see any reason why it wouldn't run at that speed. I do not currently have the need for 10000 rpm but I would probably look at something like a speed doubler or the one that Tormach is marketing.

    Do the steppers get very warm?
    After a 2 hour run the steppers were warm, not hot at all.

    Finally, do you think a few guys can move this thing by themself if disasembled?
    I had originally thought I would need to move the machine by myself, but I got 4 strong guys from work to help me and we were able to load it into the back of my small Ford SUV and then into my apartment on the 5th floor. Fortunatley I have an elevator in the building. I'm sure you can get the pieces small enough to move them by your self. This would be the same problem for any machine in this class. It just depends how big a piece you can carry.

    Does the Tormach have linear rails? I think the Tormach documentation is outstanding and the Syil adequate. I have actually downloaded Tormach's manual and refer to it for several items.

    I have been quite happy with the X5 and glad I went with it over the X4. I am looing at the possiblity of extending the y axis and this is probably the main limiting factor for now. It doen't look like it would be all that difficult to extend the Y axis by 6 inches by replacing the rails and ball screw. The end of the base is square and I bolt some blocks on to it to support the rails. Something to do down the road.

    Sorry for the many questions, I am really considering buying this machine but I hesitate between this one and the Tormach 770. I need to make a decision!
    Anyway, congratulation and have fun

    Not a problem. I know I had trouble with the conflicting information on Syil's web site but they have been very good at responding to my questions.

  9. #9
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    Thank you so much for the info 2ndsteel. I'll you all posted on my choice and later on my impression of whatever machine I end up buying.
    C.

  10. #10
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    I just had a chance to look at Tormach web site and see what the 770 specs are. One thing that would concern me is the hp rating of the spindle motor. Seems kind of low. The other thing is I have seen several comments about how long it take the spindle to get up to speed. It takes about 2 or 3 seconds for the spindle to reach set speed and it stops in about the same time. The speed range is from 400 to 5000 and only takes about a second longer to get to 5000.

    Good luck on your decision.

  11. #11
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    That's a good point about the 770 motor hp. 2ndSteel, since you are one of the first x5 buyer, would you mind posted some videos of the mill running?

  12. #12
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    THis is very helpful information. I have a couple of other questionns.

    What kinds of depth of cut could I take in 6080T6 for example with a 10mm carbide cutter for allay. And does the machine loose steps under high load on the axis motors or high speed over a long programme.

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