[loose1]

I have a bridgeport boos 5 and I am tired of chasing transistor problems. So I want to retro it while still using the boss steppers. Here's what I have for a parts list. Please tell me if these parts will work together well and be dependable.
Keling parts http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA34Package.html
3 kl-9082 drivers
1 kl-7220 power supply
unregulated 1440W
72vdc/20A
120 vac
1 pcs c10 breakout board
1 5V power supply
Mach3

It's using a machinemaster control now, so that will be for sale when I'm done.

My big question is how to run the 8 wire motors with 4 wire drivers. I think I found how to wire them but I'm not sure. Do I wire it in parallel, or serial, or am I on the wrong path

Any help is appreciated. I know very little about electronics, except on Buell motorcycles, so wiring for dummies is welcome.

Thanks Matt

[TOTALLYRC]

Wire the motors bipolar parallel.
I would also consider the G203v instead of the kelings for the motor drives as they morph from micro to full step on the fly and are nearly bullet proof.
It may be expensive but you should also consider replacing the steppers themselves as they could be the root cause of your transistor problems.


Mike

[TarHeelTom]

I'm also in the middle of a BOSS 5 retrofit, as I only have single phase available.

Have received a GE VFD, 3 hp, single phase input. You probably don't need this.

KL-541 power supply this is what Keling recommends for the Bridgeport.

3 gecko 203v again, this is what gecko recommends for the Bridgeport.

pmdx-132 breakout board Read an old article by Roland Freistad, who recommended an older pmdx board, which is no longer in production. Suspect that before its over, I also have a pmdx-108 also.

I'm sticking with EMC2, as it's currently running on the other mill and lathe, which are both Sherline. Never dreamed that buying a Bridgeport to augment the Sherline would be cheaper than the Sherline.

Tom

[loose1]

Tarheeltom, I couldn't find that power supply. I found a kl-5413. I think I found some one to build me one, so I'm looking for what specks it needs to be. It seams a lot of people are using the gecko drives. I think I'll go that route. Also how are you going to wire the spindle motor? Can that be controlled by mach3 and if so how?
Thanks Matt

[TarHeelTom]

I'm sorry, that was a misprint. It is a KL-5413, and that's exactly the power supply which Keling recommended for the Bridgeport.

Keling will sell you the gecko drives bundled with the KL-5413. Works out to $139 per drive, if memory serves me, compared to the $145 directly from Gecko.

I went with the gecko 203V, there again, lots of people seem to prefer the gecko drives. And I simply send Mariss an email asking what he recommends for the Bridgeport, he promptly replied with the 203v. I like the fact that he seems to be available to help on very short notice.

I picked the pmdx-132. The gecko drives plug directly into the pmdx bob. There again, pmdx will sell you the 132 bundled with the gecko drives, again for $139 each.

I like the pmdx-132. It has a lot of functions built in. One interesting feature is that it isolates everything from the computer, and has its own 120 ac line input. You don't have to scrounge power from somewhere else. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need an additional bob, and the pmdx-132 has built in provisions for adding a second bob in series with the 132.

I also like the Hillbilly bob, but am not sure if it's still in production. Inquiries to its manufacturer went unanswered.

Spindle motor control. Haven't got all of that figured out, yet, but think I'm on the right track. I'm taking out the two anti-plugging relays, (MF and MR) and may take out the overload contactor also. I'm using a GE AF-300 6KXC123003X9 VFD. (I think that's the right number). There is a surplus place in NJ which has them for about $140, NOS. I know that the VFD has overload protection built in.

If you've got 3 phase power, then you'll probably want to keep the MF and MR relays in the circuit. I suspect that the bob could be set up to control the MF and MR relays, but haven't studied that situation, as I'm using the VFD for that.

I'm also using EMC2, not Mach3. However, I suspect that if one will control the spindle motor, the other will also.

The VFD has 3 low voltage control terminals, common, forward, and reverse, plus many other terminals. It can be set up to either provide current to an external switch, or receive voltage from an external source (the bob) to turn the motor on, off, and reverse. The VFD can also be used to control the spindle speed via an outside dc voltage. As my mill has the air powered continuously variable speed control, I don't plan on using the VFD for variable speed, but it obviously can be done.

My Bridgeport has a manual start fwd off rev start switch on the spindle. Plan on keeping that switch intact. Instead of using it to power the contactors, I'll use it to pass signal from the bob to the VFD. Also need to put the eStop switch in that line of signals also, so that pushing the Estop will remove the stop the rotation. It also has a spindle enable relay, which was a later mod. May, or may not, keep the spindle enable relay in the circuit.

As I envision it, the spindle motor won't start until EMC2 sends a charge pump signal to the bob, tells the spindle to run, and I manually operate the fwd start switch on the spindle, and the eStop switch is n the enabled position.

That brings up a question. My other mill doesn't have reverse on the spindle motor. What is the purpose of having the reverse on the spindle motor? Do you use it often?

HTH


Tom

[keebler303]

Tom

When the head is in low gear, the spindle rotation is reversed from when it is in high. So you have to run the motor backwards in low gear to make the spindle turn forward. You might also do some tapping or something which would be handy to have reverse.

Matt

[TarHeelTom]

Thanks, Matt.

Had no idea that the spindle would turn in the opposite direction in low gear. Although we did some simple jogs and movements before I bought the machine, I've not yet got it running at all, so haven't had the chance to discover these little goodies.

Tapping had crossed my mind, but don't expect to do enough tapping to make it worth while to set up the mill for tapping.

Thanks

Tom

[loose1]

O.K. I think I'm going to go with the 203v gecko's and the pmdx bob. Is the kelling 5413 big enough. Or should I go with the 7220? I think later on I want to add a fourth axis and I don't want to buy another power supply later. Is there any other places to buy power supplies that will work and in the U.S.?
Thanks Matt

[jalessi]

Matt,

Antek has a great selection of power supply's.

http://www.antekinc.com/

Jeff...

[TarHeelTom]

I'm no expert, but the 5413 appears big enough to me.

My fourth axis is currently manual, but hope to upgrade it to cnc in the near future.

I may be way off base here, but at least in the uses of the fourth axis which I have envisioned, there would not be much Y axis movement, so adding the rotary table would add one stepper, but more or less idle another axis.

Or maybe there are other uses of a rotary table which keep all the axis moving a lot, which I've not thought up yet.

Tom

[keebler303]

My $.02:

The stock steppers draw about 8 amps each at idle. Geckos will output 7 amps max so you are limited to 7 amps per motor there. Standby current is 70% of that so you are looking at 4.9A MINIMUM per axis or 14.7A total. If all axes are in motion, then you are at 21 amps.

If it were me, I would get a bigger supply, something you can get from Antek, as Jeff mentioned. I didn't look at the prices, but it looks like Keling might buy their supplies from Antek (pics look almost identical), which means you might cut out the middle man by going straight to Antek. I have bought at least 5 Antek supplies and could not be happier with their quality or performance.

Matt

[TarHeelTom]

I received my 5413 from Keling today. The product looks nice, and it does look like the same transformer as on the antek website. On the whole, I was not happy with their website, or their customer support. They have no phone number listed anywhere, but replied to my email with a mailing address and a phone number. Phone number turns out to be a T-mobile cell phone. Guy who answers the phone is not technically savvy at all, and his English was learned in some far off country.

I received the correct order, in a reasonable time, but when I called them, they had no idea of the status of my order. Called me later in the day and said it would probably arrive today, and it did.

Their website is a mess.

Nuff said.


Tom

[CNCfun&games]

Jeff,

Thanks for the “heads up” on Antekinc.

Bought one of their PS5N50 (50V-10A) for $107

Bought one of their PS5N50R5 (50V-10A) (+5V-1A reg) (+24V-2A) for $135.
the +24V will control the relays for coolant pump & auto Lube.

Saved on shipping Too! What a Buy!!

W.Smith, Mission Viejo, CA

[loose1]

Do you think this power supply will work for my app.?
http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=307
Boss 5 using orig. steppers
pmdx 132 bob
gecko 203v drives
mach3

If I'm reading correctly the 132 bob doesn't need an external power supply.

So this should be all I need to make this thing run like its never run before.

Thanks for all the help, Matt

[keebler303]

That supply is probably fine.

Matt

[TarHeelTom]

My $.02:

I didn't look at the prices, but it looks like Keling might buy their supplies from Antek (pics look almost identical), which means you might cut out the middle man by going straight to Antek.
Matt

I notices an error in the Keling website, they talk about "copper lost". The correct term is "copper losses". Then I noticed the same error on the Antek site. Looks like perhaps Keling is copying the Antek ads....

Tom

[cnc1000]

I'm about to embark on converting a Bridgeport Series 1 mill to run on Gecko drives and Mach 3. I'm interested in the 8 amp per phase number you mentioned. If I run the Gecko, will it just limit out at 7 amps and therefore, I'd have 7/8 of the torque that the original Boss 5 controls gave it? If so, I can live with that. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

My $.02:

The stock steppers draw about 8 amps each at idle. Geckos will output 7 amps max so you are limited to 7 amps per motor there. Standby current is 70% of that so you are looking at 4.9A MINIMUM per axis or 14.7A total. If all axes are in motion, then you are at 21 amps.

If it were me, I would get a bigger supply, something you can get from Antek, as Jeff mentioned. I didn't look at the prices, but it looks like Keling might buy their supplies from Antek (pics look almost identical), which means you might cut out the middle man by going straight to Antek. I have bought at least 5 Antek supplies and could not be happier with their quality or performance.

Matt

[HawkJET]

If I run the Gecko, will it just limit out at 7 amps and therefore, I'd have 7/8 of the torque that the original Boss 5 controls gave it? If so, I can live with that.

I'm using Compumotor drivers rather than Geckos on my Boss 3 so there may be some differences in my experience, but I think it is representative.

First, low speed torque is not an issue with these machines. The 8 amps you refer to will really only be noticed at the low end.

Second, my machine runs better at 6 amps than it does at 8 amps. I believe the different current level affects the resonance characteristics of the motors. It so happens that this resonance is more of a problem at 8 amps. I discovered this with my own experimentation.

Third, the voltage will make more difference. This is because the limiting factor is torque at a higher speed. Stepper motors have a lot more torque at low speed than they do at high speed. These machines need more torque at the high end to be able to handle the rapid moves.

The inductance of the motor will limit the rate that the current can rise in the coils. At low speed, there is ample time to get to the rated current because the phase stays energized longer, before switching to the next phase. At higher speed, due to the rpm, the phase will turn off before the full current is reached. Since torque is a function of current and the number of turns in the coil, the torque drops off at higher speeds.

Increasing the voltage will "push" the current to rise faster, thus increasing torque at the higher speeds. Geckos do this well.

The bottom line is...

1. 7 amps will work fine
2. use as much voltage as the Geckos will handle
3. wire the motor in parallel
4. MAKE CHIPS!

[cnc1000]

Thanks for the info. Do you have a wiring diagram for the steppers, so I can wire them correctly? I assume they are to be wired as 2 phase motors with 4 wires coming out? I use steppers in my work, so I'm familiar with the basic idea. Are the Bridgeport steppers 8 wire models where they can be used as 6 wire unipolar or parallel each phase winding for bipolar? Do you know the color codes?

I assume also that there are limit switches on the Bridgeport. Do you know what those color codes are, or it is obvious when I dig into the machine? Many thanks. cnc1000

[HawkJET]

Do you have a wiring diagram for the steppers, so I can wire them correctly?

The attached image is a wiring diagram for a different stepper controller but it has the info you need. The color codes are for the other controller and are not applicable to what you have.

I assume they are to be wired as 2 phase motors with 4 wires coming out?

Yes

Are the Bridgeport steppers 8 wire models where they can be used as 6 wire unipolar or parallel each phase winding for bipolar?

Yes

Do you know the color codes?

No, I don't, but with the attached wiring diagram you can work it out....

I assume also that there are limit switches on the Bridgeport. Do you know what those color codes are, or it is obvious when I dig into the machine?

The limit swtiches are simple SPDT switches that are set up normally open (at least they were on my Boss 3) and it is safer to have them normally closed so I rewired mine. It should be straightforward.