[Bluesman]

Ok folks here is a fun one, I got 2 Kitamuras HX500I, These machine have the absolutly identical CNC program in them. I have a 2 min cycle time difrence between the 2 machines the 16IMA is slower than the MB. I have been thru the parrameter manuals and they seam to me to both have the same look ahead capabilties and also the bell curve rapid feature.
Is it psoible there could be a 9000 parrameter I am missing. It is driving me nuts, Fanuc is no help and Kitamura of course is no help. I ahev been thru parrameters and every time i think i find the right ones i match them to the MB control but no chance. Any answers out there

Bluesman

[zavateandu]

HI M8

what do u mean is slower?

waht is slower the buffer or the movements of the axes?

and i think is a 900 parameter that should be active but this is an option as u know.

let me know exact maybe i can help u


GOOD LUCK!

[memoryman]

More info is needed. Is the program running off memory or DNC?
Have you compared feed/rapid/overrides parameters? How long is the fast cycle time? Give as much info as possible.
Bill

[Bluesman]

More info is needed. Is the program running off memory or DNC?
Have you compared feed/rapid/overrides parameters? How long is the fast cycle time? Give as much info as possible.
Bill

I been all over this thing, I am not sure of its a buffer issue or an axis issue, But here is more info, I have the identical CNC program in both machines. The A control is 2.4min slower than the B control.
I have compared all the standard feed and max rapid parrameters and they match, However the 1400 series and the 8400 series parameters that control the high speed functions and settings for the "high speed conture control" the bell shaped rapid and all the like.
These parrameters do not macth, BUT if I set them the same there is no change. I am still missing something.
I am running from the control there is no DNC

I can send the parrameter manuals to anyone that needs them

thanks Bluesman

[memoryman]

How long is the fast cycle time? Are the actual feeds the same on each move block? Break the program down into sections and compare the cycle times for each section, so you can narrow the problem down. If I were there, I would probably find the cause in a day.

[underthetire]

I agree you need to break it down further, could be rapids, could be ATC, block processing speed, corner tolerance window, finish signal time of something etc.

[sinha_nsit]

How about mechanical factors such as different inertia, lubrication issues ...

[Bluesman]

How long is the fast cycle time? Are the actual feeds the same on each move block? Break the program down into sections and compare the cycle times for each section, so you can narrow the problem down. If I were there, I would probably find the cause in a day.

Ok *******, A day??? I been a Fanuc guy for 30 ****ing years. Fanuc cant tell me nor can Kitamura. I have broken it down tool by tool line by line segment by segment. Please if you cant help the go **** your self but do not be a smart ass. This is not a simple problem. You got to be one of the ussless ****s that think they know everything.

thanks for the help. Bluesman

[Bluesman]

I agree you need to break it down further, could be rapids, could be ATC, block processing speed, corner tolerance window, finish signal time of something etc.

Yea, I looked at all those settings too and matched them all to the faster control. This aint my first BBQ guys.

Thanks for the help, Bluesman

[Bluesman]

How about mechanical factors such as different inertia, lubrication issues ...

I thought about that, One of the machines is a HX500 and the other is a HX500I could there be mechanical difrences between the 2 that are just what they are and it wont change no matter what??

Maybe, thanks. Bluesman

[sinha_nsit]

I do not know if the following info is related to your problem:

FANUC NEWS no.173, Dec. 2008, on page 4 informs that a new function has been introduced in series 30i/31i/32i - model A which results in a higher speed canned cycle for drilling such as G83. Basically, they use a higher tolerance for positioning (in-position width) at R-point and intermediate retraction points, and a tighter tolerance at the bottom of the hole. This does not affect accuracy because accuracy is not so important at intermediate points; it is important only at the bottom of the hole. Thus cycle time improves without affecting accuracy.

[memoryman]

Ok *******, A day??? I been a Fanuc guy for 30 ****ing years. Fanuc cant tell me nor can Kitamura. I have broken it down tool by tool line by line segment by segment. Please if you cant help the go **** your self but do not be a smart ass. This is not a simple problem. You got to be one of the ussless ****s that think they know everything.

thanks for the help. Bluesman

I get that you are frustrated. I have been a field service engineer for longer than you have and I still ask others for insight. And yes, if I were there, a day would probably be enough: I have that much confidence in my skills and knowledge.
I also noticed that you don't like to answer specific questions, but rather rant and rage and be abusive.
Have a great day.
Bill

[Bluesman]

I get that you are frustrated. I have been a field service engineer for longer than you have and I still ask others for insight. And yes, if I were there, a day would probably be enough: I have that much confidence in my skills and knowledge.
I also noticed that you don't like to answer specific questions, but rather rant and rage and be abusive.
Have a great day.
Bill

Ok snot nose, Lets put the money where the mouth is, How much you want to come here to fix this, And here is the deal. I pay you what you want and exspenses. Shoot me a price and go big. If you fix it in 1 day I cut you a check. If you dont you cut me a check. For the same amount. Plus exspenses

Bluesman

[memoryman]

No thanks. You don't have enough money to buy my services anymore. You could have had them for free but it wasn't valuable to you.
Bill

[Bluesman]

No thanks. You don't have enough money to buy my services anymore. You could have had them for free but it wasn't valuable to you.
Bill

Typical no talking Canuc, I worked field service myself. I also delt with my share of service guys that thought they were the ****z when in fact they were a waste of my money. As I am sure you would be.
But the offer stands, The cycle time is costing me 45 grand a year in lost production I will give you 50% of that if you come n fix it. If you cant then you owe me nothing, The satisfaction of sending a snot nose Canuc home with his tail between his leggs will be enough for me

Bluesman

[memoryman]

Where are you located, Bluesman?

[barbter]

For fear of being flamed here as I'm NOT a service engineer...

Mechanically, is there much difference in age between the machines?
Did Kitamura have different pitch ball screws between the 2x machines?
Is the toolchanger the same model (you could obviously do a quick program 1x tool to tool time check on this).

Is the control configuration identical ie are they both alpha motors/drives on all axes or is one machine beta?
It surely has to be the acc/dec settings on the servo's???

Are these the machines with twin ball screws on each axis?
If so, could the servo tuning be out between both in which case they are fighting eachother therefore slowing down the axis??
Run a quick axis time check program rapiding say from home to Z safe and back and forth 10 times on one axis at a time. Then run it on the other machine.
This will eliminate rapid axis movement acc/dec.
Then repeat changing G0's to G1's with an average feed from your component program.
This will eliminate feed axis movement acc/dec.

[barbter]

and another thing...
I'm assuming that you're running a 'conventional' type program with arc moves as G2/G3?
If you're running a mold type program with a million G1 lines to produce an arc, then it is probably a processor issue between the 2x machines (or 1 machine has a RISC processor fitted)?

[Knuckle Man]

Bluesman, You need to relax. But you are right it is easy to get frustrated when you knock your brains out on a problem and then some one comes along and says "Dude I can fix that in a day"
Anyway check the series drives you have, The 16IA is probobly Alpha Series and the 16IB is Alpha I Series. The Alpha I series was the next gen Fanuc and is just a faster control and drive system. The only thing that will make it faster is to convert it to Alpha I which will take much more than a day (Memoryman) and cost you a boat load of money per machine. So to coin a phrase "it is what it is" sorry to be the bearer of bad news. but hey now you can sleep better knowing you were right about Memoryman

[memoryman]

Well, Knuckle Man. I did not guarantee that I would find the problem in one day: just that there is a good chance based on my 40+ years of field service experience. It is also frustrating when the person asking for help does not provide the requested info. I have fixed similar problems over the phone before when Fanuc couldn't (no charge) and anyone can call me during regular business hours at 289 389 6117 ET for free assistance.
I guess my assertion will remain unchallenged as Bluesman is not replying.
Bill