[roundman]

I was running two machines today since we have work to do. Yipee!
Anyway I was wondering if anyone here tries to idiot proof their setups? Today I ran a couple of parts and they were fine but loading two vises with new parts I loaded the first wrong and it scrapped it. We may be able to "fix" (weld it) maybe not. I did not set this machine up and just was distracted and running ahead of myself. Been a while since I have done that. The lead boss told me to take a clamp and put it on the moveable jaw so the part would only load one way. He said he does it all the time because he has so many irons in the fire so to speak. We also have made some of our fourth axis hubs so that when doing 2 surfaces and indexing so that the correct orientation is done preventing cutting on the wrong sides by blocking those sides with added on brackets. This is done and there is no way it can be done wrong again without a lot of noise.

[Pondo]

Oh hell yeah I have had to idiot proof a ton of setups.
Mostly so I don't fockup parts, but also because of other idiots that find creative ways of making nonconforming material.

[christinandavid]

Always reduce the chances of an incorrect set-up in any way you can. A good fixture/setup can also speed the job up. It is unlikely you will totally eliminate operator error - I remember my first balls up on CNC was putting parts up twice (I was too busy chatting), therefore shortening/elongating the ends and holes I had just done - That didn't go down too well.

Try to remember these old adages when foolproofing a job: -

"Never underestimate the pure genius of a complete idiot"

"If it can go wrong, it will go wrong"

DP

[dertsap]

"Never underestimate the pure genius of a complete idiot"

DP

a guy learns to be creative with idiot proofing ,
I worked with the idiot of all idiots , there was not a day that would go by that he wouldn't crash and destroy something , some days it was parts other days fixtures and or destroy half the tools in the magazine (literally while he stood right there ) , I can go on for a couple hrs about the stuff he trashed and how he went about it .
didn't matter how well i would idiot proof cause i obviously couldn't bring myself to think his level idiocy , I'd come up with something elaborate that no one could screw up , he'd simply forget to tighten the clamps
best way to idiot proof a shop is to keep the idiots out of it
but then idiot proofing the job for those times that our minds may be wandering is always a good thing to do

[roundman]

Yes that was what I thought of first after I did that. I notice I never have done that if I had set up the job initially. We have been busier now a days and this is happening more. (running a job setup by someone else) I like the story related earlier because I have seen that happen also though not to that level. The bad thing also was I loaded the parts and went to the other machine and it was my lead man who started it up. He did not notice my dumb mistake and he set it up. I will just take a secound and actually focus on my task at hand. Usually I am very good at that. I will say probably the best way is to actually try to idiot proof something before a part or a run of parts gets done incorrectly. I have not been in any shop who did this as a rule of thumb though it is always in reaction to mistakes made.

[skullworks]

But yes we try...

I will often drill a few holes in soft jaws and press in a few roll pins to make reverse or out of position loading difficult... Operator is still able to FAIL to tighten the vise, or over tighten and distort the parts etc.

[Jake E.]

We have even gone as far as taking pictures of each stage of loading, laminate them and place them on the machine next to the doors so the operators have to see them, and they still manage to either not tighten something down or load something incorrectly. We even had an instance where the operator left the 3/8" hex wrench on the clamp screw and started machining.

[ImanCarrot]

Jake E. I like that! gonna use that.

What I do at the moment is have every step documented, one A4 book for each machine and everything gets written down, but sometimes when an operator is pressed he'll forget to note down something important. There's nothing worse than trying to figure out what the previous engineer has done (or more importantly what he hasn't done.

[Jake E.]

The latest idea we are doing is setting up a 3 ring binder including the inspection criteria (which us use screen shots form soliworks to show where to measure), loading instrucitons (with detailed pics and instructions), handling instructions (what boxes the material comes in and what boxes to put finished goods into), any Quality Alerts, Detailed information on adjustments, tool list, operation map (what tool cuts where). Then we train the CNC Tech on everything in the book (we have several Techs who make adjustmnets/changes tools etc, while we have operators who just run the machines) and record the training per ISO 2001:9000. The books are a PITA to make, but the operators and techs seem to appreciate it and they actually are referring to it.

We are going to start making the same for setups as we do so many jobs, some times we forget how we set up one job that we last ran a year ago, or we have some new guys who dont know how to set it up.

[br1]

.

[christinandavid]

Set-up sheets/job-files...keep them concise and standardized, otherwise you end up with a mess that is more of a hindrance than a help. A picture says a thousand words, but usually needs a caption...

I have seen epic tomes of information that were so vast they were either ignored or the important stuff was crowded out and forgotten.

Then someone like me comes along and changes the method...even a slight change means another acre of rainforest must be sacrificed for the next edition.

DP

[dertsap]

torque wrenches are always a good thing to have to ensure everything is tightened up consistently between operators

[Geof]

To try and reduce the chance of an operator leaving a wrench or vise handle in place, and also to act as a reminder to tighten clamps/vises, before starting the machine have extended shafts on the vise handles that extend outside the door and attach the wrenchs to lightweight chains anchored outside the machine. This way the door cannot be closed with these in place.

Of course if you permit people to override the door interlock this idiot proofing is negated.

[TarHeelTom]

Jake E. I like that! gonna use that.

What I do at the moment is have every step documented, one A4 book for each machine and everything gets written down, but sometimes when an operator is pressed he'll forget to note down something important. There's nothing worse than trying to figure out what the previous engineer has done (or more importantly what he hasn't done.

Went to take the practical exam for a federal license (in another field) once. Started my setup, opened the book and set it on an adjacent table. The inspector told me to finish the job and then come to his office when through.

Asked him later why he didn't watch my progress.

He replied that the law requires reference to the book, but that I was the first person he'd EVER seen open the book prior to starting the job. He didn't think I needed any supervision.

Tom

[br1]

I had a post yesterday but deleted it because it sort of ran off topic the question was, do you idiot proof your setups, and yes I do as I value my machines. And repair costs are expensive. But More important is the use of common sense, If I hire a person who uses no common sense then shame on me. If I hire a person with common sense and a mistake happens then shame on them, and they learn not do it again. I was learning when I began this trade and I am still learning. I like all the suggestions presented here.

[underthetire]

As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid. You can however help keep them from hurting themselves or the machine. I got a call to a shop once on a warranty job. It was a 2 Horiz. Linear Pallet Pool. Owner of the shop starts yelling at me the minute I walk in the door. One of his brand new Chick Tombstones and pallet are laying on the track inside the LPP. I was sure this was not a machine problem, as there was really no way the AGV could just " drop" a pallet. Fished the pallet out with the forklift and re-set up the cell system. Did a little checking and found a square black mark on the top rail of the set up station. Looked around the shop and found the handle for the tombstone on the other side of the shop. Matching mark to the setup station. Operator hid the evidence and blamed the machine-again.

[roundman]

In moving to a machine another buddy set up. I try to put things in the same. (Not all the time true thus this thread topic) I will definately run two or three sets and be sure nothing is moving and be sure it is in print because when I run it I own it even if it has all been signed off from QC. I have to always tell those guys how to check something so I double check lest I screew up. If I have time while running I check my parts as much as possible especially critical tight tolerences. I believe if a machinist will just endeavor to pay attention and they encourage the other guys then that quality will go a long way also. Instill good work practice. And yep all the other things everyone has mentioned. When I make a mistake I actually kind of get sick because it eats me up.

[christinandavid]

When I make a mistake I actually kind of get sick because it eats me up.

Yeah me too, but at the end of the day it's just a piece of metal. Imagine how a surgeon feels when he makes a costly mistake. Anyone who hasn't made a mistake hasn't learnt anything - the trick is not to make the same mistake more than once...

I believe that skill is not measured so much by number of mistakes made, but by the percentage of mistakes you are capable of rectifying without anyone finding out...

DP

[dertsap]

I believe that skill is not measured so much by number of mistakes made, but by the percentage of mistakes you are capable of rectifying without anyone finding out...

DP

the number you catch before making them

[roundman]

I like what BR1 said because he seemed to say the kind of person or the good qualities they learn or bring with them is good insurance. I watched a friend in our shop try to teach a new guy something on a manual hardinge. He told the guy to always take the chuck key out and do not get used to just leaving it in. Well this young fellow could not get it right and this fellow seemed to think it was not important. He is close to the owner and so we have to find a way to get this guy to pay attention. He learns when he screws something up and is getting better. Such training is expensive and my friend has even been hard core with this young fellow. This guy is constantly distracted by his cell phone and when he gets bored he will go and visit with my friend or the programmer. We will keep at him. I guess my point is that it is good insurance to develop a certain attention to detail and hyper vigilence to what is going on. It took me practice,good examples and a$$ chewings to get better.