[lkenney]

OK guys here one for you that have worked on the old tupperware machines with brushed motors.
I had a Alarm 103 the other day and the table ran to the right. I have been tearning the machine down looking for trouble spots.

I found the cable to the X limit switch was worn through to bare wire. AHAH Problem sovled, so I thought.

Limit switch is a Telemecanique XCM-A103, B300, A150, Same Polarity. The wires that come out of the waterproof case are snipped off with Black, Black, Brown, Blue, Yellow, Yellow, wires coming out. I believe we were wired Black & black to the limit switch connector at the rear of the machine.

The way I tested it it looked like the switch was Normally open and closed when roller is depressed, but I am not sure, what is correct? How heavy should the wire be to the rear of the machine?

I was going to open the switch and relace the wires since they are too short to attach to without some clever work. I don't see how to open the case,
Behind the Yellow/white/black printing label are two holes that are filled with white hard stuff. I assume these are the screws? that I need to use to open the case???? I ran some 26 gage wire (it was what I had on hand) but still got the error. Motor and encoder are less than a year old, motor turns until it fails.

Thanks for any ideas.

Lowell

[Haas__man]

To test whether the problem is the new switch or a further problem with the machine:
Locate where the Z,Y and X limit switches plug into - this is behind the lube panel at the rear of the machine.
Swap the X and Z plugs over.
Now go into diagnostics (Para.dgns twice)
Look for x, y z limit switch - you might need to page down a feew times to find this.
When you have found it toggle the new X switch and see if you get a change from ) to 1 on diagnostics. Then toggle the Z switch located at the top of the column.
From this you should be able to work out where your fault is.
If your fault is with your new switch I would suggest you buy a new one from your HFO. The cable will be the correct length and the new style cable is oil resistant and more flexible.
Hope this helps

[lkenney]

Haas_man,

Thank you for your suggestions, but I am trying to re-install the orginal switch with new wire, I was asking how heavy the orginal wire was as what I found in the machine was not orginal and if using the two black wire from the limit switch was the correct wiring. I will run the diagnostics. is there anything else that could be giving me the 103 error?

Thanks again

Lowell

[Haas__man]

If I am getting you right, your are saying that when you zero out the x-axis - the x axis moves to the right(instead of left like it shoud) then bumps into the stop at the end and alarms with 103 alarm?
This can only be caused by the switch not working. I would still suggest that you get the full assembly - new switch and correct cable. However if you still want to replace just the cable then I would suggest you look at the cables for the Z and Y axes to gauge 'heavyness' i.e the x, y , and z use the same cable - just different lengths.

Hope this helps

[lkenney]

Haas_man

What I am saying is that the X-Axis took off to the right while I was uploading a new program. In other words, I had already gone through the auto startup and ran my warm-up program. while I was uploading or right after I uploaded a G-code file the X axis moved on it's own to the right side.

When I opened the Way-Covers I found that the wire from the X Axis switch was worn through and making contact with the cast frame of the machine.

Since this wire was obviously spliced in at some earlier date and I was going to have to replace it and wanted to do it correctly. I was also somewhat taken back that there were stubs of 6 wires in one grey covering coming out of the X axis switch. I first thought it would be easy to open the switch to see where all those wires were hooked to and to replace the wiring from the interior of the switch. I have now given that up and stubbed to wires in to the two black wires that come out of the switch. I am running 16 Gauge wire at this time to see if this will clear the error.

Question:
What can cause a 103 Alarm= “ X Servo error too Large “

Error defined:
Got 103 Alarm and X – Axis ran to the right side of the machine as facing it.
Found abraded wire covering from the X-Axis switch allowing wire to touch the frame of the machine.

Solution:
Replace old wire with new covered wire and correct any size problems that might have been introduced when fixed before.

Process
Removed limit switch cleared tape and solder connections to wire exiting the limit switch. It looked like the original patch in wire went Black to black from the wire stubbed out of the limit switch

Currently
Have stubbed in two wires soldered and shrink-wrapped to the X-axis limit switch will run those wires out side the normal path to the rear of the machine to check toto see if this is the problem

If I can fix this without buying anything new it would help. I have the first real paying contracts that we have had in several months.

Thank you

Lowell

[Haas__man]

Ok, i'm pretty sure you are right with the two black wires. On the older machines the limit switches were just wired up with the two black wires. The newer ones are wired up to use both sets of contacts in the switch one set uses the two black wires, the other set uses the brown and blue. As for getting into the switch - I don't think you can without damaging it.
Do the other axes work? i.e can you still zero out y and z?
The wiring from the limit switch touching the x axis casting should not have done any damage to anything, it uses very low voltage so should be fine. I'm thinking you may have another problem. Do you have a digital multimeter?
If you do:
Turn off machine.
Leave off for a good ten minutes before checking anything to make sure that voltages from capacitors have gone.
Locate the x axis drive card - left hand side about half way up the cabinet.
remove the black and white wires from the card - near the bottom of the card.
Check for Ohms between the two wires should be a low ohms reading
Check for ohms between white and ground - should be open circuit
Check for ohms between black and ground - should be open circuit
If any of these are different from above then motor or x axis motor cable is faulty.
X axis motor cable is very likely to be your problem. It runs from left side of x axis - to the centre of x axis - down to the y axis, around the front of the ballscrew, then out of the back and into the side of the cabinet. You should inspect the cable anyway to see if you can see a break anywhere ****************be aware though - only touch this cable when machine is turned off****************************
If you do see a break in the cable - do not try to repair it - it carries high voltage and is obvioulsy very dangerous. The area you should inspect very closely is around the front of the y axis ballscrew - this is usually where a break will happen.
If ohm checks are all good, and you cannot see any damage to the x axis motor cable then you are looking at a possible drive card fault. You could try swapping x and y drive cards over (do not use the A axis - it is different and not compatible with xyz)

Hope some of this helps

[haastec]

Backing up a minute, but did you confirm in diagnostics that the switch is working correctly as I did not read in your follow up posts if you actually checked this or not.
I am just looking to clarify the switch proplem is corrected before moving onto other areas of the machine. As initially noted by Haas_man the action of the machine and the damage that you saw all indicate a switch problem.

[lkenney]

I rewired the switch and it is functioning how ever the table is not even close to the limit switch right now and I still get the error.

I have checked the cable under the front way covers and it looks good to me. I have connectivity on all wires through the cable

The Black and white wires on the drive board have no resistance with the simple ohm meter that I have.

I can drive the Y axis with the X axis board,

I swapped the A axis board and the X axis board with no change. I will pull the cable all the way out this morning but it looks good around the loop and is less than a year old. When I opened the controller end of the cable there was one wire that seemed to be weakly soldered it was a purple stripe on white wire, I resoldered it.

Thanks for everyone suggestions, please keep them coming.

Lowell
360-432-2339

[Haas__man]

I swapped the A axis board and the X axis board with no change.

360-432-2339

Just to remind you of what I wrote a couple of posts ago:
You could try swapping x and y drive cards over (do not use the A axis - it is different and not compatible with xyz


Try swapping the x and y boards over and see how it goes.
You said you got no resistnce between black and white - did you check between each one and ground?

[lkenney]

Haas_man
I am surprised aabout your comment on the A and X boards for this age machine. Selway has had me swap them before. This a 1992 machine. So what is correct??

Anyway I bit the bullet and have a new x-axis motor and cable coming.

Thanks wwvwryone for you help.

Lowell

[Haas__man]

The A axis card is definately NOT compatible with XYZ on ALL brushed machines - that is pre 1996 machines.
I think it will end up being a faulty motor cable - or something to do with the limit switch.
Please post and let us know.

[lkenney]

OK Haas_man I will take your word for it but can you describe the differences in the cards so I can make sure I have the right ones in the right slot. They sure look the same to me.

Thank you for the help.

Lowell

[Haas__man]

I cannot decribe the differences between them- except that they are usually labelled up as either 'A AXIS ONLY' OR 'XYZ AXES ONLY'.
If you can drive the y axis with the x board - and the y axis with the y board - then obviously both boards are good.
See how you get on with the motor and cable.

[CNC2Z]

Hi Guys good to see the news regarding the "Tupperware Machine" LOL
I have just got my 93 VF0 up and running, and have started to see issues
like Alarm msg..# 163 Z axis over,# 105 Z axis following,#141 Z motor fault,
And now some x alarms just started yesterday
# 165 X zero Ret margin to small.# 145 X limit switch..
We did try the Vacuum clean of the Zservo and It was very loaded with dust.
But still no help with the Z Alarms
As we all know these machines were some of the very first from Haas,
and they have seen many years of service. I am just starting to wonder if
there would be a way to completely revamp the control system with
a modern interface? Ie: mach with brushless servos/drives? Just thinking:idea:?
That to bite the bullet now because the Iron looks good .
Anyway thinking out loud .Also if you guys have any good sources for parts
for the machine. talking with Haas direct always gets really $$$.. and
as the other member pointed out, Money is really hard to come by now a days
Any thoughts/ leads would greatly be appreciated..
Thank you

[lkenney]

CNC2Z,

I think that you have a Z motor encoder or motor that is shot, but check you wiring and boards too. Haas has the motors protected so they are sole provider, you will finds some interesting info on encoders in a related thread that I started. during this same time period.

These old machines can do an amazing amount of work if we use modern endmills and CAM software with them. Modern Machine Shop magazine did an article on what we do with ours last year. It is available through MMS Online and Surfware's web pages. Do a search for ATSS or my name on either site. They are kind of buried now.

I have seen some 3rd party controllers (Can't rember what it was) on Haas machines but have no knowledge of how that control compares to the Haas control. I like the Haas control o would be reluctant to part with it.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Lowell