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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    1079

    Ancient Knee mill retrofit

    Following along the same path as many others, I have sold my router an bought a mill. It is a Zenith knee mill, which is made in the USA funnily enough! The thing is old, probably around 50 years, but it has been owned by a model engineer for a looooong time, and is in reasonable condition due to this.
    I have only just managed to put the thing back together since getting from the drive into the garage, and still have to hook up the motor (via 3 phase VFD for variable speed control) and tighten everything down.
    I think the next priority will be to give it a good clean up, and a new lick of paint - that green is nasty!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0001.JPG   DSCN0002.JPG   DSCN0003.JPG  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24220

    Talking

    Ah yes, that takes me back to the days of steam driven CNC.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1306
    Nice machine. Similar to my Deckel engraver. How are you planning to CNC it. Ball screws?
    Regards,
    Mark

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    Yep, I have been busy on ebay over the weekend, just bought 3 ballscrews which are brand new, old stock. Originally made for Denford CNC machines, they are precision ground. I have started to paint the thing, but there is nt really a lot I can do before the screws and bearings turn up
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1136
    that's a classic old machine. kinda a shame to paint & cnc it, a bit like putting nitros and metal flake on a great old healey

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    The paint is not the original colour anyways. There is quite a lot of sivery-grey beneath the pieces I have removed (such as the belt covers) so I am not doing any real damage.
    You are right about CNC'ing though, but needs must! It is the largest machine I could fit into the overcrowded garage.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1306
    I take it the current Z lead screw is has a stationary nut in the base, and the screw is driven through a crown and pinion gear. (Same as the deckel). Have you given any thought to how you are going to CNC this axis? I would expect the right angle gears to have unacceptable back lash.

    What color are you painting it?
    Regards,
    Mark

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    Hi Mark, I am paiting it bog-standard goose grey, so it will look nice once it is all done. Just the head and table left to paint, but that will be done once all the "extras" have been addd to them.

    Yeah, the knee operated via a crown gear, but I will leave this alone and use the knee just for tool-changes. The mill has a sturdy quill, which the sliding portion is 4" diameter. It is currently operated on a small worm drive via the front handwheel, but this is well worn and will not be any good to CNC.
    What I have in mind is the method used by the mill-drill fitters, so I will mount the ballscrew on the side of the head, and attatch to the base of the quill. Then I can spin the nut to move the screw and quill up/down.
    The biggest problem I will have is deciding the best place to mount the ballnut in order to minimize any flexing of the screw-quill mounting plate. Should be easy enough to strengthen it though
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0001.JPG   DSCN0002.JPG   DSCN0003.JPG  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1306
    I didn't look hard enough and missed the huge green quill right at the front

    This will make the conversion much easier.

    Look forward to seeing final pictures.
    Regards,
    Mark

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    Ok, so my bearings finaly turned up today, and I managed to make a start on the bearing blocks for the X axis. These two cast iron blocks were already on the table, so just required boring to accept a pait of angular bearings on one end, and a pair of deep groove bearings on the other. A quick 5 minute boring job....oh wait, I forgot it took me around an hour to mount the things on the lathe first! Nevermind, just need to make the spacer for the AC bearings, and the bearing-block caps to hold the bearings in place.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0001.JPG   DSCN0002.JPG  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    I managed to make the little spacers yesterday, and made a start on turning down the ballscrews. Wow, they were hard! Had to grind off all the hard surface before turning in the lathe. I did attempt to take a deep cut to get under the surface first though, but this was impossible with my setup. I suffered worn tips, shuddering and even a couple of sparks! Nevermind, got the x and y screws turned down now.
    I made the y-axis bearing block today, using the existing block, I have just bolted a piece onto it, bored for the new bearings, and made a nice hat to keep it all locked up. Next job is to work out the best way to mount the ball nuts.....X is no problem, but the y will be a little more tricky since I have big nuts and not a lot of room under the table.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0001.JPG   DSCN0004.JPG   DSCN0003.JPG  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    1079
    Here we go, I managed to cut the nuts down a fraction so they fit under the table, and using a slab of cast iron for the connecting block, it is all working nicely. I had to notch the knee slightly to get the full table travel, but I never removed any real "meat". There was a thin section (maybe 1/8" thick) which just seemed to function as a swarf guard, so I drilled a series of holes through, and it came away easily with a soft blow from the persuader.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0001.JPG   DSCN0002.JPG  
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    After the y-axis, it was simple job to hook up the x-axis screw. Unfortunately, I had to butcher the nut-retaining block a bit (it started off as a cuboid) so it would fit under the table, but again, it is still fully functional and holds the nuts securely in place. Could have done with a milling machine here, but the bandsaw and lathe were put to good use. Just got to give it a lick of paint on the table now, then it will be on to the tricky z-axis.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0003.JPG   DSCN0005.JPG   DSCN0006.JPG  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    1079
    Almost finnished the z-axis nut carrier now, so here it is so far. Essentially it is a spindle with the two ballnuts trapped inside so when it is spun, the ballscrew will move, hopefully taking the milling spindle with it. The first few pictures show the insides - a bored cylinder to trap the nuts and hold the bearings on. I managed to drill the clearance holes for the ball-returns on the rotary table. If I never had that, I guess it would have been a file job since the piece was too big to offset in the lathe. This part is made from 2.5" dia 2024 aluminium since that was what I had on hand.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.JPG   DSCN0009.JPG   DSCN0011.JPG   DSCN0012.JPG  

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    The last two shots in the previous post show the bearing holder. 4" aluminium bored to just clear the spindle, then bored each end to hold the bearings. A hat on each end keeps everything locked together, and there is just enough room on the end to get that pulley on!

    Last job for this part will be to turn a flat section on the whole assembly and mount it to the miller on the round plate shown in the last photo. i ahve really had enough for one day though, so it wil have to wait!
    Oh yeah, don't be scared to comment guys, it is nice to know there are people interested in this!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN0015.JPG   DSCN0016.JPG   DSCN0018.JPG   DSCN0020.JPG  

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    927
    Hi Kong
    I'm watching with interest!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    421
    Keep going! nice so far!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2139
    Amazing. What sort of propulsion will be employed?

    Eric
    I wish it wouldn't crash.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1079
    Thanks guys, always nice to know what people think

    Eric, I have 2 servo motors so far, almost the same as yours. All I know about them is they are 48v, but are similar in size to the ones you used so hopefully they will be ok. The thrid motor is proving difficult to find, we just don't have the suppliers over here unless you want to pay top dollar. There is one on ebay I am watching at the moment - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW which looks like it should be suitable. Otherwise I am constantly watching ebay, and ebay.de too. The geckos are on order and should be here shortly.
    I am gonna go to the metal shop tomorrow and pick up a steel plate to connect the z ballscrew to the spindle. I am thinking somewhere around 3/4" thick should be acceptable, but there will be around 4-6" between the spindle and screw, so I must be certain it won't flex under a heavy cut.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24220
    Quote Originally Posted by kong
    There is one on ebay I am watching at the moment - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW
    Are you are aware that motor has a wound field? and as such will require a Field supply and open-circuit field monitoring.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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