[dmauch]

I have the documentation I got from Keling for the 2200W driver it doesn't show what the connections are fior the drivber board CN11,CN 6,5,Cn4,cn7 and Cn10. What are each ones for? I have deduced that Cn11 connects to cn4 of the keyboard.
I see that CN6 from your post that those are the 4 connections for use with Mach3. So that is no problem.
I have no questions about the motor power, hall effect sensors or the AC power.
In you pictures I see a jumper that you installed on CN5 What is it used for?
In the same picture I see two wires going to CN7 . Where are they comes from and what are they used for?
If I just use it without a PC can I simply use the keyboard and connect it to C11. Do I need other connections.
If you can provide the above info I can draw a schematic or pictorial connections to make the setup from keling better.

[cjdavis618]

can anyone tell me the dimensions and weight of the 1000w motor.
i want to match it with a taig milling head. and need it to fit.
if it is a heavy weight, do you think i could buy a slightly smaller BLDC servo motor in stead.

These 1100 watt model would probably work for the taig but the size would be close. I would guess the motor weighs 4-5lbs. The dimensions are in the schematics and documentation on the first post for both motor sizes, Weight should be there as well.

[cjdavis618]

i also will need to know the driver output voltage and max amperage, for refference
from the picture it seems i will need a servo motor, they look massive.

The driver and the motor are a matched set and I don't see any need to change the set. I know that Keling sells them seperately, but they are made for the corresponding Controller/Motor.

You can contact Zhang at Sangmutan for more details at the company website link I provided on the first post.

[cjdavis618]

I have the documentation I got from Keling for the 2200W driver it doesn't show what the connections are fior the drivber board CN11,CN 6,5,Cn4,cn7 and Cn10. What are each ones for? I have deduced that Cn11 connects to cn4 of the keyboard.
I see that CN6 from your post that those are the 4 connections for use with Mach3. So that is no problem.
I have no questions about the motor power, hall effect sensors or the AC power.
In you pictures I see a jumper that you installed on CN5 What is it used for?
In the same picture I see two wires going to CN7 . Where are they comes from and what are they used for?
If I just use it without a PC can I simply use the keyboard and connect it to C11. Do I need other connections.
If you can provide the above info I can draw a schematic or pictorial connections to make the setup from keling better.

Correct, c11 connects to the keyboard. That is the pre-made cable that comes with the kit.

On the c6 connection, the 4 wires are the +5 input, PWM input, Direction, Gnd from BOB.

The Jumper you see is for the bridge from 110v to 220v for the capacitors. If the jumper is not connected there, the max speed will top out at around 4300rpm. Once the jumper is added, the remaining power bank is tapped and allows the full 6k rpm speed. The same is true for the 1100 watt model.

The other 2 wires we left over when I was trying to use the 0-10v input. At the time of the photos, I didn't know that my particular controller wasn't speced for that and the chip needed for that wasn't added.


That was the 2200w system. The 1100w system I recieved is supposed to have the 0-10v input and the PWM input. I have connected up to the 1100 watt and it is more responsive than the 2200watt for spin-up. That is testing with the PWM input at this point. I will be working on the 0-10v input tomorrow. I believe the PWM may be the best and easiest solution though.

[Mongkol]

Chris,
Thank you very much for the post. I am interested in your method. I think I will retrofit the old milling machine to be CNC. I don't know how to control the spindle motor. I read your post. I think here's the solution. I would like to know this method can mill and engrave on metal plate at 20 mm thickness or not. Pls advise.

Mongkol

[cjdavis618]

It will certainly mill and engrave. However engraving is done at higher speeds that this motor will produce. However if your gear ratio was 3:1 it would reach 18k rpm.

It would be better to look into a high speed spindle system for engraving. But, if you already had a mill that you are converting, there are tools like the Proxxon, and other trim routers that can serve the same purpose.

Here are the water cooled high speed spindles with the VFD.
Services

Here is the other method that most use (including me) to get engraving speeds for the mills
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFepQLxqtsI&feature=related"]YouTube - CNC Milling High Speed Spindle Mount for Sieg X3[/nomedia]


If you are going to do more engraving than milling, I would go with the water cooled spindle since it would be designed for for that purpose and likely last much longer. But if only occasionaly engraving, I would just use the Proxxon, or other similar trim router. I personally use the RotoZip RZ10-2100. When I am not using it on the mill, it is pretty handy around the house as well.

[SgtSpyder]

Thinking about swapping one of these brushless motors in to a G0704. My mill is manual, but I’d like to keep the speed adjustment on a dial using the 0-10v input.
Does connecting to the 0-10v input disable the button controls like the PWM input does?

[cjdavis618]

I haven't tested this yet, but I believe it will. I will know shortly. I'm working through the config on that now.

[gandalf69]

I bought one of these ‘2200W’ Sangmutan motors together with the controller and display.
As with other servo motors I would expect it to spin up to the set rpm and stay more or less at that speed. It will, but only under constant load.
This Sangmutan controller lacks an effective PID function. Also there is no way to control whatever limited PID function it may have which all means that when the load changes, as it does when you enter or exit a cut or change feed rate, the motor changes speed dramatically and takes several seconds to recover.
See 1.2 Servos at:-

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Integrator_Manual.pdf

So if you want to use this system to replace an induction motor for a fan or a pump it will work well. If you expect to replace the induction motor on a lathe, drill or mill spindle and get speed consistency similar to the induction motor you will be disappointed.

[Hans_G]

Gandalf-

What do you think about the brushless motor (quality-wise)? Does it have encoder feedback? I was looking at the 1100W version, but I would supply my own 300vdc and use an AMC bldc servo drive to run the thing. I currently have a 48v Keling Nema34 bldc motor that I added an encoder to (runs a sherline spindle), but I'm running it at 72vdc and it gets a pretty hot after 10 minutes. I could either spend money on cooling it or I could spend money on a more suitable motor.

[cjdavis618]

As with other servo motors I would expect it to spin up to the set rpm and stay more or less at that speed. It will, but only under constant load.

This is designed as a spindle motor. I cannot think of any spindle motor that I have ever used that under load didn't exibit a change in RPM until it could recover. This depends on your load that is applied on the amount of change.

This Sangmutan controller lacks an effective PID function. Also there is no way to control whatever limited PID function it may have which all means that when the load changes, as it does when you enter or exit a cut or change feed rate, the motor changes speed dramatically and takes several seconds to recover.

So you have tested this claim with the motor actually cutting or is this theory?

[cjdavis618]

Gandalf-

What do you think about the brushless motor (quality-wise)? Does it have encoder feedback? I was looking at the 1100W version, but I would supply my own 300vdc and use an AMC bldc servo drive to run the thing. I currently have a 48v Keling Nema34 bldc motor that I added an encoder to (runs a sherline spindle), but I'm running it at 72vdc and it gets a pretty hot after 10 minutes. I could either spend money on cooling it or I could spend money on a more suitable motor.

I would suggest you contact the manufacturer and ask them about your questions. I do have encoders on mine, but I am unsure of the voltage or BLDC driver specs.

As for breaking the motors up from the matching controller. Please start a new thread that deals with that in order to keep confusion down. For people that want a turn-key system for thier mills, and have no experiance with matching motors to controllers, this could be very confusing if we start adding lots of driver modifications and such to this thread. By all means though, please post a link to that thread here if you like so people can find it if they want.

Thanks
Chris

[gandalf69]

Gandalf-

What do you think about the brushless motor (quality-wise)? Does it have encoder feedback? I was looking at the 1100W version, but I would supply my own 300vdc and use an AMC bldc servo drive to run the thing. I currently have a 48v Keling Nema34 bldc motor that I added an encoder to (runs a sherline spindle), but I'm running it at 72vdc and it gets a pretty hot after 10 minutes. I could either spend money on cooling it or I could spend money on a more suitable motor.

You would need to define your quality question more specifically before I would volunteer an answer.
Feedback appears to be 3 hall effect sensors to give speed only, there is no position encoder.
I would bet that if you extracted 2200 Watts from this motor it would quickly get hot. I'll try it when I get time.
I am also looking for a better controller, as I said, the Sangmutan controller has very poor PID control

[gandalf69]

This is designed as a spindle motor. I cannot think of any spindle motor that I have ever used that under load didn't exibit a change in RPM until it could recover. This depends on your load that is applied on the amount of change.


So you have tested this claim with the motor actually cutting or is this theory?

You jest I hope. So you have never used a mains powered bench drill, mill, or lathe powered by an induction motor

[cjdavis618]

You jest I hope. So you have never used a mains powered bench drill, mill, or lathe powered by an induction motor

Actually I have and it doesn't take an RPM monitor to tell when the motor has a heavy load on it and that the motor must use more current to generate the required speed. While I don't claim to work with motors or control systems for a living, I spend alot of time in the shop and have motors on many machines here that are both single phase and 3 phase. Any of them can be stalled, as I would expect this motor to as well. Saying that it doesn't recover for "Several" seconds baseless without examples. These are not high end 7+ HP servo spindle motors like in a HASS, or large machine that require spindle indexing. They are motors for hobbyists and are sold as such.

What I think is interesting is that you are trying to use a system designed as a spindle motor, and complain that it doesn't have good position encoding. I ask that if the system is so bad, then can you design a better motor and controller combo, that does the same task, at a better price?

But my questions again,
1. Have you actually ran any cuts with this system yet?
2. Can you verify it doesn't correct the speed?
3. Did you run this test manual or with PWM control?

[mmprestine]

Any luck with getting some close up pictures of the controller?

I had initial concerns about the software in the drive so I asked zhang the following question in the other thread:


Drive adjustments

Zhang,

I would like to know more detailed technical information about the drive and features.

What is the method to connect to the drive on the RS485 port?

What is the communication protocol used? Modbus?

Can drive parameters like accel, decel, and PID tunning be adjusted?

His response:

HI Matt

please send E-mail to me ,my E-mail address " [email protected] "
i will send the motor and controller specification to you ,our motor and controller is use in CNC milling and drilling machine match with MACH3.
Or you can contact kelinginc,i have sent dozens of motor an controller to Chicago,you can buy from him,his e-mail "[email protected]"
1100w 6000rpm motor and controller
2200W 6000rpm motor and controller

Best regards
zhang

ShenZhen Sangmutan Motor Co.,LTD|BLDC Pump|BLDC Motor|Brushless DC Motor|Brushless Motor controller|Brushless DC Pump|Pump|WaterPUMP|???--????? |?|??|?||||?||?||pwm|???|??| - index
[email protected]

The specifications tell you nothing about the internal feature set of the drive so I guess they are not available to be adjusted.

Matt

[gandalf69]

Actually I have and it doesn't take an RPM monitor to tell when the motor has a heavy load on it and that the motor must use more current to generate the required speed. While I don't claim to work with motors or control systems for a living, I spend alot of time in the shop and have motors on many machines here that are both single phase and 3 phase. Any of them can be stalled, as I would expect this motor to as well. Saying that it doesn't recover for "Several" seconds baseless without examples. These are not high end 7+ HP servo spindle motors like in a HASS, or large machine that require spindle indexing. They are motors for hobbyists and are sold as such.

What I think is interesting is that you are trying to use a system designed as a spindle motor, and complain that it doesn't have good position encoding. I ask that if the system is so bad, then can you design a better motor and controller combo, that does the same task, at a better price?

But my questions again,
1. Have you actually ran any cuts with this system yet?
2. Can you verify it doesn't correct the speed?
3. Did you run this test manual or with PWM control?

An induction motor runs at a full load slip speed of about 3-5%, any further load and it will stall. A BLDC motor has no inherent speed or torque control, it is done by the controller. The Sangmutan controller has a very slow response to motor torque changes and as a result the shaft slows dramatically - many times more than an induction motor. I would quote numbers but when I asked Zhang about it he replied that I would need to run it under Mach3 to read rpm.
Your comment about position encoding is without base and a distraction, I will ignore it.

Your questions:
1) no, I don't need to run a cut to test the torque response of the motor. All that is required is a brake and VI monitoring.
2) Where did I say it didn't correct the speed? I said it takes several seconds to do so. Count 1000, 2000, 3000...aloud, that's about how long it takes.
3) I ran the motor with the supplied Sangmutan controller.

[SgtSpyder]

So, does anyone have one of these bolted to a mill making chips? Any words on how well it works actually milling parts. Maybe some video?
Still trying to decide between the 1100w and 2200w?

[Flexo!]

My controller arrives tomorrow. Already have the motor mounted ready to go, so should be able make chips soon after it arrives.

I got the 1100w/6000rpm model, going on a Weiss WMD20 mill.

Really hoping its suitable!

[mmprestine]

I see that this may be the first real user.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...tml#post858247