[gandalf69]

I ask that if the system is so bad, then can you design a better motor and controller combo, that does the same task, at a better price?

I was thinking about this and it occurs to me that a treadmill motor and controller might be a better solution, certainly in terms of load recovery. I guess that conversion is an old story by now.

I asked Zhang :
Will it be possible to get software (firmware?) upgrade to re-program PID?
PID should really be user adjustable to suit different load conditions.
His reply:
I am sorry we can not give the software to you.

Good, if unfortunate, to see that you are getting to see this Sangmutan controller weakness for yourself.
Has anyone attempted to extract, or at least input, the rated power into these 2200W motors? They seem rather small to me.

[cjdavis618]

gandalf69, you were certainly correct about the motors and lack of power, but they do put out enough to be usable. They certainly do not reach the level of torque that my 1k watt factory motor did. I will eat crow when I make a mistake but I am sure that somewhere down the road, these systems will be better able to deal with the loads we expected.

I still feel like the ability to do a swap for these motors was pretty simple for the results gained. I am certainly able to work within the limits of the motor and controller. But on the other hand, the limits should be higher.


You mention that you have one of these sets, have you tested the motor at all yet? Do you believe the weakness is the motor or the controller?

I would like to know how you test these to see the results you are looking for.


Since John at Keling is the one selling these for Zhang, I have asked that John contact him (Native language) and see if a resolution can be found. We are individuals, but John will undoubtedly sell many of these for Zhang. Maybe he will have more pull for us in this issue.

[cjdavis618]

One other thing, is it possible that these Proms are not able to be written to? could it be that they would need to be replaced to correct?

Maybe Zhang wasn't trying to avoid the issue, but knows that a replacement is needed.

[Flexo!]

That thought did cross my mind, maybe the chips are "locked down" somehow for production?

On the CN9 connector, theres a 5 pin header with a pin labeled "mclr", or Memory Clear. Gives me a bit of hope. I'm going to try reading the button panel first. It uses a PIC as well, and has the 5 pin header. It'll be a few weeks till my PIC programmer arrives so I'll have to wait and see.

Maybe they want to protect their "Highly Advanced Product" *cough* from being copied.... incidently I found another supplier of these motor/controllers a while ago: HONCAR M&C HI-TECH CO.,LTD

Same old Chinese story really, multiple outlets to a singular large factory.

[cjdavis618]

John at Keling has sent word to Zhang that we need these issues resolved.

We will see what happens.

[mmprestine]

The pic micro could be write protected. This feature is set via a fuse in the micro and cannot be changed. The micro is cheap ~$5 though and easy to replace with the one on the board. You will be able to find out when you get the programmer and try to connect to the board through the ICSP connector. Does the programmer come with software or do you need to use microchips MPLab to connect since it may be a clone of the ICD2?

Once again I have much experience with PICs so feel free to ask any questions.

Matt

[ellik]

I have the 1100w motor on a X2 and I agree its very slow on recovery under varying load conditions, I really would like that fixed and be adjustable somehow. Over all though its better than the 1.5 HP treadmill motor I had before. It reacted much quicker to changing loads but generated allot of heat that I had problems getting rid of.

I also have had some issues with connecting it with Mach. I got a C6 speed controller hooked up to the 0-10 v input and it took allot of trial and error finding how to get proper linearity, still have problems above 5600 though and it may be a problem with the C6. Chris's post did help allot but the motor tuning he suggested did not work well for me but did get me going so thanks Chris.

The error signal does not seem to work, I can't measure any voltage difference on the Err pin when the motor stalls. Start/Stop, Fwd/Rev and rpm index works fine and the LCD show's real RPM's when the external key pad is disabled. With the pad enabled it shows a fixed number regardless of motor load. I'll post some details of my current Mach setup when I get home tonight.

Whats really missing from the controller Keling is currently selling the optional analog motor load sensor.

Below is a short video of the mill in action with the new motor, posted a few days ago. No gear reduction, spindle speed 5000RPM, 0.1" DOC, 26IPM, 3/8 rougher, aluminum 6061.

EK

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RJv_AXUwWI"]YouTube - WP 000028[/nomedia]

[cjdavis618]

I got an email back from John at Keling and he tells me that the motors and controllers that we are using are the same as the ones that Novakon and Syil are using. He doeasn't seem to think there is an issue with that and keeps pointing back to the other vendors using them too. If that is true, I have to wonder if they are having issues too?

Good work ellik on your setup, very nice.

On a side note, what coolant do you use to flood?

[cjdavis618]

Guys, I just got an email from Keling about this. Here is the text.





"Hi Chris

I talked with Zhang

The Engineer is working on now for this problem

They want to express apology for all users

John"


Whether this means that we can fix this, I do not know, but they acknowledged a problem. Good first step.

[Desertrunner]

Am I right to assume that all tests have been with the Mach3 doing the control? Have you tried to run the motor with out the Mach3 driving it. I have had Stepper cards that while connect for configing they ran slow. Have no idea if this is a good idea but it would be worth a try.
Tony

[cjdavis618]

Not yet, but I will compare the power in a moment.

[ellik]

I tried both, with and without Mach3. It does not run slow but could do a better job maintaining speed under varying loads and it should be adjustable somehow. Then, again given its price its not so bad. A 750w AC controller from Anaheim Automation costs $355

http://www.anaheimautomation.com/man...rs%20Guide.pdf

Am I right to assume that all tests have been with the Mach3 doing the control? Have you tried to run the motor with out the Mach3 driving it. I have had Stepper cards that while connect for configing they ran slow. Have no idea if this is a good idea but it would be worth a try.
Tony

[cjdavis618]

Same result on speed here as well. The loss of power (Or perceived power) is not affected by using it direct from keypad or Mach3 input.

As was said before, I wanted to add that having the mill running at 220v 60hz makes no difference in the reaction of the mill either. It still responds the same way at this point.

Looking forward to more input from Keling and Zhang on this one.

(I crunched the numbers on Elliks speed and feed and it shows that if his mill was cutting Full width at the speeds and feeds he listed, the machine would only require .151 hp to perform that task.) Not good with the loss of power shown.

[SgtSpyder]

Thanks to all you guys posting info about this motor and controller. Still on the fence about getting one and have started looking at VFDs and induction motors has another option. But going to hold off and see if any solution shows up for this brushless set.
Sounds like most the mills have the 1100w version. Anyone running the 2200w verison? Looks like I can fit the 2200w motor on my mill and the price difference between the two is so small, I figure why not go for more power. The power rating seems like it’s a little over estimated anyway.

[luvindaddy]

Hello,
I finished up my conversion of my Bridgeport BOSS 5 machine about 1 1/2 months ago.... loved everything until I decided to take roughing passes....
I have the original 2 hp - 3 phase motor hooked up to a VFD under Mach control....... broke a couple of 3/8" endmills in aluminum before I got everything set.... had to settle on .05 d.o.c. at 2500 rpm & 10 ipm feed.
NOT HAPPY at ALL with this.... NEED MORE POWER!!!!
Decided to start looking for a DC motor spindle conversion for more power at lower RPM's?
I'll probably try the 2200w motor..... anything has to be better than what I have now????
Keep us posted with more results.
Thanks, Tim Bostic

[cjdavis618]

Hello,
I finished up my conversion of my Bridgeport BOSS 5 machine about 1 1/2 months ago.... loved everything until I decided to take roughing passes....
I have the original 2 hp - 3 phase motor hooked up to a VFD under Mach control....... broke a couple of 3/8" endmills in aluminum before I got everything set.... had to settle on .05 d.o.c. at 2500 rpm & 10 ipm feed.
NOT HAPPY at ALL with this.... NEED MORE POWER!!!!
Decided to start looking for a DC motor spindle conversion for more power at lower RPM's?
I'll probably try the 2200w motor..... anything has to be better than what I have now????
Keep us posted with more results.
Thanks, Tim Bostic

I think you may have some other issues. I have a manual Jet 4vs (bridgeport clone) and it will take off aluminum like it wasn't even there. Running your numbers, your mill only needed .06 hp to do that assuming it was 6061 AL.

Have you tried and Feed and speed calculators? Try out the Gwizard from CNCcookbook and I bet you will find that you can get much more out of that boss unless there are mechanical or electrical problems. I think you are running a bit slow on your numbers. Did you have chip buildup where al was melted to your bit?

Even my 400lb benchtop mill can take .100 deep cuts at 46ipm.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hello,
I finished up my conversion of my Bridgeport BOSS 5 machine about 1 1/2 months ago.... loved everything until I decided to take roughing passes....
I have the original 2 hp - 3 phase motor hooked up to a VFD under Mach control....... broke a couple of 3/8" endmills in aluminum before I got everything set.... had to settle on .05 d.o.c. at 2500 rpm & 10 ipm feed.
NOT HAPPY at ALL with this.... NEED MORE POWER!!!!
Decided to start looking for a DC motor spindle conversion for more power at lower RPM's?
I'll probably try the 2200w motor..... anything has to be better than what I have now????
Keep us posted with more results.
Thanks, Tim Bostic

Something is VERY wrong there. I have a 3HP BP clone with VFD, and I routinely rough at >8 cu in/minute removal rate in aluminum. Something is VERY wrong with the way you have your VFD setup....

Regards,
Ray L.

[luvindaddy]

I think you may have some other issues. I have a manual Jet 4vs (bridgeport clone) and it will take off aluminum like it wasn't even there. Running your numbers, your mill only needed .06 hp to do that assuming it was 6061 AL.

Have you tried and Feed and speed calculators? Try out the Gwizard from CNCcookbook and I bet you will find that you can get much more out of that boss unless there are mechanical or electrical problems. I think you are running a bit slow on your numbers. Did you have chip buildup where al was melted to your bit?

Even my 400lb benchtop mill can take .100 deep cuts at 46ipm.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread.... it's just that one guy mentioned looking into a VFD and I've not been happy with mine. I set mine up to run 60 hz - full speed at 4200 rpm.... Maybe I should adjust the pulley's lower and overdrive the frequency to achieve max speed.... This would give more torque at the lower frequency... I guess?
Thanks, Tim Bostic

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I don't want to hi-jack this thread.... it's just that one guy mentioned looking into a VFD and I've not been happy with mine. I set mine up to run 60 hz - full speed at 4200 rpm.... Maybe I should adjust the pulley's lower and overdrive the frequency to achieve max speed.... This would give more torque at the lower frequency... I guess?
Thanks, Tim Bostic

Running a VFD at 60Hz should give you precisely the same performance as when running the motor directly off the 60Hz line, without the VFD. If you're seeing different speed (this would be a good trick...), or different torque, at 60 Hz, then your VFD is not properly setup.

Regards,
Ray L.

[luvindaddy]

Running a VFD at 60Hz should give you precisely the same performance as when running the motor directly off the 60Hz line, without the VFD. If you're seeing different speed (this would be a good trick...), or different torque, at 60 Hz, then your VFD is not properly setup.

Regards,
Ray L.

Hello Ray & Thanks for the help!
I'm almost sure that I've got something set up wrong?
I just don't have the experience to fix it easily.
I have a L100 - Hitachi set to output 59.9 hz @ 4200 rpm.
It runs good at the upper end of the range.
At 2500 rpm - 32.2 hz
At 500 rpm - 7.0 hz (lowest speed for high gear)

The manual says "The high-performance L100 can rotate at a very slow speed with high torque, but not zero"
I know I have something NOT set right because at 1000 rpm - 8.0 hz, I can reach up and stop the spindle with one bare hand!!!!:boxing:
It's somewhat obvious that something's not right?
That's when I have "power" issues... at the lower frequency range. Once I get around 3000 rpm -40.4 hz, machine seems to have enough power and cuts nicely.

My next major project is CNC'ing a small, Elgin manual collet lathe, thus I'm still interested in the possiblity of using the DC motor for spindle control..... It would be great having RPM's in the 6000 range for the lathe.

Thanks, Tim Bostic