[3D Accuracy]

Hello to all,

Has anyone on the forum had any experience exporting step or iges files created in Alibre into either Pro/ENGINEER or SolidWorks?

The reason I ask is that I have a customer who wants to create his own model of a part in Alibre in an attempt to save some money and then export it to me so I can design his injection mold. I've never had anyone give me a file from Alibre before but my experience with importing from other inexpensive software packages has never been good. Most of the time the customer will end up paying me to recreate the model in either Pro/E or SolidWorks.

I'm not sure what version of Alibre he's going to get but I'm pretty sure it will be the least expensive version available.

If the outcome is generally not satisfactory I'd like to warn the customer now so he doesn't waste a lot of time, effort and money to only end up paying me to design his product anyway. Which is what he really should be doing as he has no experience designing parts for injection molding!

I'm going to post this thread in both the SolidWorks and Alibre forums so I can get input from both groups. All input is appreciated.

Have a terrific 4th of July weekend for those of you in the USA! ... and for all others worldwide have a terrific day!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[ger21]

The least expensive version of Alibre ($100) can't export IGES or Step formats. Have the customer tell you what formats he has available, and maybe give you a sample part to see. Make the part a bit more complicated than just a cube. Maybe add some pockets and fillets?

[3D Accuracy]

Hello ger21,

Well that's certainly important information! Thanks for sharing that with me.

I'm pretty certain my customer will be using exactly the version you're talking about as he mentioned to me that what he is buying is very inexpensive.

I'm going to make him aware of this short coming immediately as his intentions are to export the file to me and it sounds as if that will not be possible.

Do you know if Alibre is capable of exporting stl files? His other intention is to get an STL, SLS or FDM rapid prototype model made and this will require the ability to export an stl file.

Have a terrific 4th of July weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[3D Accuracy]

Never mind my last question about the $99 version of Alibre exporting STL files. I checked their website and this version does indeed export STL files, but no other file types from what I saw.

Have a terrific 4th of July weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[BurrMan]

Another note:

A poorly designed model from a $25,000.00 CAD package will also import poorly into solidworks...

I think Alibre uses the ACIS Modeling kernel, which can do CAD work just fine, though they also have a Proprietary format within it to use for their assembly features and such.

If the model is designed right, there will be no reason that a more expensive program (Short of he is using a version that cant save to an external format) cant open and use the data.

I think you just need to remind him that there is more to it than "Draw sphere...Cut out block....Ugh".

[3D Accuracy]

Hello BurrMan,

I agree with you 100%. Any software is just a tool, it's the user who creates good models or bad models. Since this will be my customers first experience not only with using Alibre but with designing a part to be injection molded I'm sure there are going to be several corrections I'll have to do regardless if the file will import cleanly or not.

In the past I've had to import some very complex models created in SolidWorks into Pro/E and had absolutely no problems with them and on other occasions, I've tried to import a very simple model created in SolidWorks into Pro/E and had to spend a lot of time repairing the file before it would create a solid.

My concern is with Alibre being a less expensive software and it's ability to export clean data as I've never had to import a file from Alibre before. This is why I'm seeking the experience of others who may have had to do this. If others have had problems doing this in the past then I can alert my customer that there may be a potential problem downstream.

As an example, on several occasions I've had to import databases that were created with Inventor, which is a less expensive software compared to Pro/E and SolidWorks, and they are always a problem. Sometimes they could be fixed and sometimes I needed to completely recreate the model.

I have the ability to import Alibre files into either Pro/E or SolidWorks which gives me some flexibility as once I can get a clean database into one or the other, it's easier to move the file between them.

Hope you're having a terrific 4th of July weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[Teyber12]

hey 3d accuracy Do you want me to send you an alibre file for you to test?

It can be a headache when customers try to nickel and dime, it usually costs them more in the end. oh well.

cheers

[BurrMan]

I'de like to test one. Could you post one in the SAT format? also, since Alibre uses a proprietary SAT format form, could you make something that has an assembly and a Parametric constraint in it and save as SAT? (Even just 2 simple parts)

[3D Accuracy]

hey 3d accuracy Do you want me to send you an alibre file for you to test?

It can be a headache when customers try to nickel and dime, it usually costs them more in the end. oh well.

cheers

Hello Teyber12,

Thank you for your generous offer but there is no need to put yourself out.

My customer has the $99 version of Alibre which will only export STL files. I've informed him that one of two things are going to happen.

1) I'll be able to import and use his file but I'll probably need to make corrections to make his part injection moldable which will cost him depending on how much work I need to do ... or

2) The file won't import and I'll have to recreate the part in Pro/E or SolidWorks from scratch which I've already given him a price for doing.

So you are absolutely right, his nickel and dime tactics are going to cost him one way or the other. I've been in business designing products and molds for thirty years and my experiences have been that it always happens this way.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[3D Accuracy]

I'de like to test one. Could you post one in the SAT format? also, since Alibre uses a proprietary SAT format form, could you make something that has an assembly and a Parametric constraint in it and save as SAT? (Even just 2 simple parts)

Hello Burrman,

Which software are you going to try to import to? Pro/E, SolidWorks or some other?

If Teyber12 posts a file and you try it please let us know your results.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[Teyber12]

Whats the best way to send you guys a STL file?

[BurrMan]

Hello Burrman,

Which software are you going to try to import to? Pro/E, SolidWorks or some other?

If Teyber12 posts a file and you try it please let us know your results.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

Sure, I can post anything I find. I have a few programs I would try the file/'s with...If we are limited to STL, there's not much to do but check to be sure it is a nice mesh.... I can toolpath an STL with BobCad. I can manipulate one also, but doing this is not a precise operation. You would not want to manipulate Mesh data for machining. Any changes for mold work on an STL would require the remaking of the model in a NURBS package, as has been stated already.

Would like to see the Alibre model and have a look.

Whats the best way to send you guys a STL file?

Depending on it's size, right clcik it and choose "send to-Compressed zip folder" then attach it here in a thread. If it is too big, an email or something like google dropbox can pass files around.

[3D Accuracy]

Whats the best way to send you guys a STL file?

Hello Teyber12,

Thanks again for your offer but I just found out from someone on the SolidWorks forum that SolidWorks won't import a STL file cleanly. I've never imported a STL file into Pro/E but I don't think it will be a clean import either.

The only thing a STL file will really do for my customer is get a rapid prototype part via SLA, SLS or FDM. He should have allowed me to do the design and provide him with the STL file for this as most mold shops would rather have Pro/E or SolidWorks data to work with, not a STL file.

If my customer follows through and decides to have me design the injection mold for him it looks like he's going to have to pay me to recreate the model in either Pro/E or SolidWorks. I warned him about this before but he insists on doing it himself ... oh well.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[3D Accuracy]

Sure, I can post anything I find. I have a few programs I would try the file/'s with...If we are limited to STL, there's not much to do but check to be sure it is a nice mesh.... I can toolpath an STL with BobCad. I can manipulate one also, but doing this is not a precise operation. You would not want to manipulate Mesh data for machining. Any changes for mold work on an STL would require the remaking of the model in a NURBS package, as has been stated already.

Would like to see the Alibre model and have a look.



Depending on it's size, right clcik it and choose "send to-Compressed zip folder" then attach it here in a thread. If it is too big, an email or something like google dropbox can pass files around.

Hello BurrMan,

Looks like importing a STL file is messy business no matter what software you import to.

If my customer gives me a STL file I'll give it a quick try importing to Pro/E and SolidWorks which I have been told will probably not work. I'll post the results.

I think my customer is making a mistake, but it's his time and money, not mine.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[BurrMan]

Hello BurrMan,

Looks like importing a STL file is messy business no matter what software you import to.

If my customer gives me a STL file I'll give it a quick try importing to Pro/E and SolidWorks which I have been told will probably not work. I'll post the results.

I think my customer is making a mistake, but it's his time and money, not mine.

Well, no need to import the STL into those NURBS modeling packages. They wont do anything with them. If the STL is good to go, then you can toolpath them no problem. Bring it into your CAM package. The issue becomes if a need to rebuild the model arises, if you need to make any changes....OR, you would need the customer to make the changes, but, you dont want to become his Injection mold creating coach either..

There is nothing wrong with toolpathing STL data. Usually though, using poly data for CNC drops the accuracy to less than .1 or something like that, depending. I would think for Mould work you would NEED to stick to NURBS data. Perhaps your customer would need to splurge for the next level up, so he can give you NURBS data......

[3D Accuracy]

Hello BurrMan,

I don't have a CAM package to import into. I'm using Pro/E and SolidWorks for Product Design and Mold Design which I then provide the data to a mold shop for them to manufacture the molds.

There is a good possibility that there will be changes to the model downstream. I've already discussed a possible 2nd version of the part with the customer that will happen later.

I've been in business for thirty years and I don't mind educating the customer. My belief is that a well informed customer will feel much more comfortable with the decisions he makes, but you're right, if it gets to the point where the customer is only looking to be coached through the process it's time to cut him lose. His next step needs to be that he cuts me a P.O. and down payment to do his project or I'll draw the line on him.

I honestly don't think he'll pony up for the next level of Alibre. His motivation was to save money, not spend more. He didn't see the value in having me do his product design for him in the first place so I don't expect him to spend more money on software for a one time use either.

I'll see what happens.

By the way BurrMan, what do you do exactly? Do you make injection molds, die cast molds or blow molds? If so please PM me your contact information.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[BurrMan]

Hello Robert,
I didnt realize you weren't the CAM guy also...With this info, an STL to you is fairly useless. ALso, for Mould work probably doesnt have the precision needed for the job....

By the way BurrMan, what do you do exactly? Do you make injection molds, die cast molds or blow molds? If so please PM me your contact information.

No nothing like that... I'm more of a CAD guy. My brother does machining, but not Injection mould level stuff. I do know another guy that does Mould work though...I'll point him at this thread to see if there is anything for either of you here....When you say "Make Moulds" are you meaning the CAD Creation or the CAM Creation of the Mould, or Both??? Just to be clear....

[3D Accuracy]

Hello BurrMan,

About 33 years ago I was a mold maker so I'm familiar with the machining process. CAM in those days consisted mostly of punched tapes fed through a computer which told the machine what to do. I used to be able to read the punched holes on the tapes and know exactly what the machine was supposed to do. That's pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur as things nowadays are so much more sophisticated ... thank God!

That's pretty much been the consensus, an STL file won't do me much good. I'd bet that your right about the precision of the files not being good enough for injection mold work. The customers part is pretty simple and dimensionally not critical but I still don't like the idea.

You're a CAD guy too, that's great. What type of stuff do you usually work on?

I design anything that's plastic or die cast and the molds used to manufacture the parts. You'll find examples of my work on my website which you should be able to access through my profile if you're interested. I design anything from simple prototype molds to high cavitation, quick cycle unscrewing molds, hot runner molds, stack molds ... all sorts of high end stuff like that.

By "making the molds" I'm referring to the actual machining of the molds. I'm always looking for mold shops that I can work with either helping them with designs and/or having them build a mold. If you have a friend that needs some help I'd be happy to be of service, I appreciate the contact.

Let me know where you're located and if I run across any work that you do I'll point it in your direction.

Have a terrific weekend!
Robert
3D Accuracy

[BurrMan]

The customers part is pretty simple and dimensionally not critical but I still don't like the idea.

Well, it can be fine if it's just some kind of "hitch" you clamp cable to...But if your are needing fitted pieces at .001, it is not good. So there is just a big differance if your asking your cam package to read "curves" that are "true NURBS Curves", or just a polygonal representation of a curve.. Thats where the accuracy fails with the STL data. I would think a mould would have some fillets and drafting stuff incorporated that need to be adhered to.

You're a CAD guy too, that's great. What type of stuff do you usually work on?

My brother cuts alot of one-up stuff. He also works on alot of fishing reel components. If he runs into a touchy surfacing issue, I'll help him out a bit. Rings. Parts that are hard to replace. Custom designed special needs. Art. Stuff like that. More like a home shop than a production shop.

We live in hawaii. At this point we are very low capacity. probably not a shop to recommend work to, unless some kind of specialized, one-up component fairly small in nature... Thanks for the offer though...I'll check out your website.

[3D Accuracy]

Hey BurrMan,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've been real busy the last couple days.

Ends up that my customer has acknowledged that he want me to make the model over again in Pro/E so the mold design can be done and data can be provided to the mold shop.

By the time he upgrades to the more expensive version of Alibre so he can export a file that Pro/E can read, plus the cost for me to make the modifications to his design so the part is injection moldable, he'll exceed the cost to just have me recreate it from scratch.

Hawaii is great, I've never been there but I've heard lots of nice things about it. I'm in the L.A. area. My wife has a good friend in Hawaii and we've been talking about going to pay a visit.

I have customers all over the USA but none in Hawaii. If in the future I have contact with anyone who needs to have some parts made I'll put them in touch with you.

Have a terrific day!
Robert
3D Accuracy

Oh ... almost forgot, here's and example of the kind of injection molds I design. This is a 16 cavity automatic unscrewing mold with a hot runner system, slides and early ejection return.

[IMG]<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/3d-accuracy/3daunscrewing16cavitylocknut1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]