[feederic]

Hi!

I'm in the market for a small mill that I can use for gunsmithing/firearm related projects. I would like to mill these out in aluminum and stainless steel. What mill would provide me with enough capability to do these few projects? I am not looking to expand much more than this either, and I am just looking for enough to get the job done. I don't have a ton of space (apt dwelling), and so far I've been looking at a SX1,X2, and X3 line of mills. I have no machining experience, and the easier to setup and get going would probably be better.

Here are the projects I am interested in:
2011 Frame (using stainless)
AR15 Lower

Can you guys help guide me in the right direction?

[mwood3]

Check out this one...This is a good review/information site made by Hoss2006
I just purchased one of these myself and so far im very impressed...Hoss has all the variants listed as well...it is a BF20 mill so there are several to choose from. I picked the one from grizzly and i must say as long as you dont mind the slow shipping the quality is superb!

http://www.g0704.com/

[feederic]

Thanks! I meant to post up that mill also, Hoss is a CNCGuns member too I believe and that's exactly where I found out about this site as well as that mill.

Do you think it would handle the tasks I have in mind in stainless? I'm not sure what kind of specs I should look for, other than envelope size.

[mwood3]

im cutting A2 with mine so im sure stainless would be a go!

anyone got experince with stainless on the G0704 yet?

[Kingjamez]

I'd skip anything from X2 size and down for an AR-XX receiver. If you don't have another mill, then you'll need a mill that has an easy to obtain CNC upgrade kit. Right now, it seems that the best mill in this size is a G0704, but it doesn't yet have a CNC upgrade kit manufactured by anybody (that I know of). The X3 is heavier than the G0704 and a little "rougher" around the edges, but CNCfusion.com makes an excellent conversion kit for it that requires no machine tools on your part.

I'm building this on my X3 this weekend:

[Dozer56]

I've done a couple AR forgings on my G0704 so far it can handle them with no problem. A little challenging with The Z height but definitely doable. Don't know about SS though but I think it could handle it.

[g29cc]

I am not sure what your price range is. But I bought a Novakon NM200. Excellent machine , works good and will cut anything without a problem.

[SSN Vet]

Hey King,

Is that model for an AR-45?

Mind me asking where'd you got the model for that puppy?

I haven't been over to CNCguns in a while, but I don't remember seeing a reciever quite like that.

I'm plodding along with an X3 mill conversion and hope to make an AR lower with it, as well as to cut Novak site dovetails in 1911 slides, etc...

[feederic]

I am not sure what your price range is. But I bought a Novakon NM200. Excellent machine , works good and will cut anything without a problem.

I really wish I did have one of those! But I will have to start much smaller for now.

I've done a couple AR forgings on my G0704 so far it can handle them with no problem. A little challenging with The Z height but definitely doable. Don't know about SS though but I think it could handle it.

That's encouraging news. I emailed Hoss and he said a G0704 would be an excellent mill for my intentions and I really like the fact that it has a stand as well as a DRO. The only thing I'm worried about is the actual conversion. Im guessing the Fusion X3 kit will not work?

[Enraged]

check out Ellik's conversion kit (search for it) for the G0704

[SSN Vet]

CNCFusion doesn't make a kit for the G0704 yet. The mill has only been available from Grizzly since the first of the year.

Hoss is designing his conversion and willl likely have a kit soon.

Though I have not had any experience with any of Hoss' conversion kits, I think you'll find his reputation for getting the details right is very good.

You could get the mill now (may have to wait anyways, as Grizzly was backordering IIRC)

Get the mill set up and play aroung with it manually, and pre-order Hoss' conversion kit if he'll let you. Then you'll be all set.

Or, you could just buy an X3 from Grizzly, make a wooden bench stand, and by the CNC Fusion conversion kit and associated electronic parts....

Mill ~$1,000
CNC Fusion's best kit ~$1,000
G540 driver, motors, and power supply, ~~$600
incidentals (cable, PC, Mach3, e-stops, vice, cooling system, basic tooling, etc...) ~$700

Your in business for <$3,500

[cornbinder23]

CNCFusion doesn't make a kit for the G0704 yet. The mill has only been available from Grizzly since the first of the year.

Hoss is designing his conversion and willl likely have a kit soon.

Though I have not had any experience with any of Hoss' conversion kits, I think you'll find his reputation for getting the details right is very good.

You could get the mill now (may have to wait anyways, as Grizzly was backordering IIRC)

Get the mill set up and play aroung with it manually, and pre-order Hoss' conversion kit if he'll let you. Then you'll be all set.

Or, you could just buy an X3 from Grizzly, make a wooden bench stand, and by the CNC Fusion conversion kit and associated electronic parts....

Mill ~$1,000
CNC Fusion's best kit ~$1,000
G540 driver, motors, and power supply, ~~$600
incidentals (cable, PC, Mach3, e-stops, vice, cooling system, basic tooling, etc...) ~$700

Your in business for <$3,500

Wow Matt! my SX3 conversion is coming in about a grand less, including enclosure, but I am kind of a scrounge now tooling on the other hand is brutal to the pocketbook, but buy good stuff and you buy it once
JT

[Kingjamez]

Hi Matt,
Right now it's just for an AR-15, got to start easy right :-)

The lower pictured above is of my own design (as much as an AR-15 lower can be). I modeled it in Alibre Personal from scratch using the Colt blueprints that have been floating around the web.

For gunsmithing, you're also going to need a good 3D CAM software. I highly suggest Deskproto 5.0. It's on sale for hobbyists right now for $1000.00 off the regular price. It's a bit clunky, but once you get the hang of it, can be extremely powerful. I highly recommend you budget the $300.00 for it.

-Jim

Hey King,

Is that model for an AR-45?

Mind me asking where'd you got the model for that puppy?

I haven't been over to CNCguns in a while, but I don't remember seeing a reciever quite like that.

I'm plodding along with an X3 mill conversion and hope to make an AR lower with it, as well as to cut Novak site dovetails in 1911 slides, etc...

[feederic]

Thanks for the recommendation on CAM software! Being a SW engineer myself, I can definitely appreciate working with good SW tools.

[SSN Vet]

Wow Matt! my SX3 conversion is coming in about a grand less,

mine is also.... I just rattled off some quick numbers to give the guy a rough budget in case he wants to "buy it now".

Deals are definately out there to be had.... there was a guy selling a completely converted X3 about a year ago loaded up with lots of tooling for a song.

My probelm is that I'm mired down in too maney projects, and after 12 years living in the house that Matt built, my wife kind of wants me to finish it (nuts)

[plasmator]

If you're interested in buying something 'ready to go' without requiring a conversion, take a look at Syil's products.

I just took delivery of a Syil X5 that I purchased mainly for gunsmithing and robotics. The machine envelope is perfect for just about any gunsmithing project I've seen, and the power/accuracy is more than enough. Price for the machine itself is around $5700.

One thing to be aware of is that machine tools are kind of like dogs - the initial purchase is the cheapest part. You will easily spend as much in tooling, metrology, et cetera as you will on the machine itself. So when shopping for a machine, it pays to get as much machine as you can afford, because it's only a fraction of the total outlay. At the same time, keep in mind that your total budget will be roughly twice what the machine costs.

Syil also makes the X4 which is essentially the same as the X5 but with standard gibs and ways instead of linear rails. It's a good machine, and still plenty accurate for gunsmithing work. They're also on sale right now for $4000.

If you buy a Syil, don't mess with Syil America - I couldn't even get them to call me back. Instead, call the guys at Syil Canada/Syil North America. They started out just selling in Canada but I think when Syil saw how bad the Syil America guys are they went ahead and allowed the Syil Canada/Syil North America guys to sell into the US.

[feederic]

CNCFusion doesn't make a kit for the G0704 yet. The mill has only been available from Grizzly since the first of the year.

Hoss is designing his conversion and willl likely have a kit soon.

Though I have not had any experience with any of Hoss' conversion kits, I think you'll find his reputation for getting the details right is very good.

You could get the mill now (may have to wait anyways, as Grizzly was backordering IIRC)

Get the mill set up and play aroung with it manually, and pre-order Hoss' conversion kit if he'll let you. Then you'll be all set.

Or, you could just buy an X3 from Grizzly, make a wooden bench stand, and by the CNC Fusion conversion kit and associated electronic parts....

Mill ~$1,000
CNC Fusion's best kit ~$1,000
G540 driver, motors, and power supply, ~~$600
incidentals (cable, PC, Mach3, e-stops, vice, cooling system, basic tooling, etc...) ~$700

Your in business for <$3,500

Thanks, it looks like I should put a list together and start a piecewise project to save some dough. I have some time to shop around, I'm especially interested in what the "incidentals" are that I will need.

If you're interested in buying something 'ready to go' without requiring a conversion, take a look at Syil's products.

I just took delivery of a Syil X5 that I purchased mainly for gunsmithing and robotics. The machine envelope is perfect for just about any gunsmithing project I've seen, and the power/accuracy is more than enough. Price for the machine itself is around $5700.

One thing to be aware of is that machine tools are kind of like dogs - the initial purchase is the cheapest part. You will easily spend as much in tooling, metrology, et cetera as you will on the machine itself. So when shopping for a machine, it pays to get as much machine as you can afford, because it's only a fraction of the total outlay. At the same time, keep in mind that your total budget will be roughly twice what the machine costs.

Syil also makes the X4 which is essentially the same as the X5 but with standard gibs and ways instead of linear rails. It's a good machine, and still plenty accurate for gunsmithing work. They're also on sale right now for $4000.

If you buy a Syil, don't mess with Syil America - I couldn't even get them to call me back. Instead, call the guys at Syil Canada/Syil North America. They started out just selling in Canada but I think when Syil saw how bad the Syil America guys are they went ahead and allowed the Syil Canada/Syil North America guys to sell into the US.

Those are very good looking machines! 4k isn't too bad...I wonder if the little extra would be worth getting something up and going immediately? Do conversions hit snags that someone new would be able to catch and remedy?

[g29cc]

Thanks, it looks like I should put a list together and start a piecewise project to save some dough. I have some time to shop around, I'm especially interested in what the "incidentals" are that I will need.




Those are very good looking machines! 4k isn't too bad...I wonder if the little extra would be worth getting something up and going immediately? Do conversions hit snags that someone new would be able to catch and remedy?

Hitting snags and frustrations are part of building a machine. I ve been there and done that. Thats not to say y ou won't have some frustrations buying a "turnkey" unit either.

It really depends on how much time you want to invest into building , researching , buying etc. If you want to just make parts and not hassle with building something , then buy a "turnkey" machine.

The guys that usually build machines are doing it for hobby type fun. The guys that want little machines ready to work, are usually small business or someone that doesn't have time or knowledge to build one.

Some will say the gratification of building one yourself is the key. Others will say plugging it in and calling someone on the phone for support is the key. To each his own. I myself would like to call and find help , rather then spend hours , days etc trying to figure something out.

Good luck with your choice.

[sansbury]

When you say "apartment," do you have a room/basement area where you can get away with slinging metal chips and oil everywhere, not to mention moderately loud noise? If you haven't seen the X3 or G0704 in person you might also be surprised at the size.

I live in Boston, and am lucky to have an accommodating landlord with a (no longer) empty basement and an upstairs neighbor with a dog with a barking problem, so he and I have an "understanding" about noise. I have an X2 and a 7x, both CNC, and there is no way I could run either of these in my apartment proper.

One thing I would factor into your plans, particularly if the mill has to go in a dwelling area rather than a garage/basement kind of space would be an enclosure. I built one, and even though I rarely run full flood coolant, I'm glad to have it as it really contains the mess. A few cubic inches of aluminum will probably fill a coffee cup with chips.

[Kingjamez]

Right on Sansbury. Unless you have special circumstances, machining/gunsmithing in an apartment is a sure fire way to have the landlord on your case. My X3 is LOUD when I have the vacuum collecting chips and the end mill is tearing through 1/8" DOC slots.

-Jim