[murphy625]

A quick google turned up this...
http://solarworld.com/PowerFilm.htm

I did not spend much time on the site, not sure if this actualy relates to the popular science story I read.

Hope this helps.
Murph

[DieGuy]

Well the first step in AZ would be to just hybridize the AC unites with a water cooling supplement to improve the heat transfer capability with evaporation. That alone would lower you KW to a more manageable value. With as much direct sunshine as we get there a small solar steam setup would be easily achivable. I wonder ohow many sqft of collector it would take to provide a few HP worth of steam?

llots of folks have near complete independence for hot water, but if gas is available it takes a long time to pay off. My monthly gas bill all year long is never over $25-30

[murphy625]

My monthly gas bill all year long is never over $25-30

Wow.. I can produce that much with just beans and beer...

Murph

[Rekd]

Wow.. I can produce that much with just beans and beer...

Murph

Yea but getting the elec company to buy the excess will be tricky at best.

[ViperTX]

Check out the latest edition of Business Week there is an interesting article on the economics of Solar versus Wind.....wind is by far the cheapes per KWH (3 to 5 cents per KWH) and Solar is 4 to 5 x more expensive.

[Rekd]

Check out the latest edition of Business Week there is an interesting article on the economics of Solar versus Wind.....wind is by far the cheapes per KWH (3 to 5 cents per KWH) and Solar is 4 to 5 x more expensive.

Either way you go, the best part is watching the meter spin backwards.

[cellis4766]

A couple of issues with selling power back to a power company. First, each company sets the rules as to whether or not they will buy the power from you. Some states have enacted legislation to prevent that, but the companies have set standards that make it virtually imposible to put power back onto the grid legally. Most of the companies cite "safety concerns" as their reason for preventing it. Secondly, if they do allow you to sell back to the grid, you must have some special safety devices placed onto your junction box, usually at your own expense. This is in case someone is working on a power line during an outage, you are not powering up what is thought to be a de-energized line. Third, not all meters will work backwards, you must upgrade the meter itself to one that will - once again, at your own expense.

Wind is great in many parts of the country, because of the lower material cost. But here in Central Florida, solar is the only way to go - not enough wind to reliably generate enough power.

[Evodyne]

Here in Indiana the state legislature just revised the laws so that our publically owned energy providers must now offer net-metering. I happen to be served by one of these, so I've begun to look into it. Right now it looks like they will allow one to feed up to 10 Kilowatts back into the grid. That's equivilant to a 13 horsepower generator running at capacity. It's an attractive alternative to batteries and such.

Evodyne

[Rekd]

A couple of issues with selling power back to a power company. First, each company sets the rules as to whether or not they will buy the power from you. Some states have enacted legislation to prevent that, but the companies have set standards that make it virtually imposible to put power back onto the grid legally. Most of the companies cite "safety concerns" as their reason for preventing it. Secondly, if they do allow you to sell back to the grid, you must have some special safety devices placed onto your junction box, usually at your own expense. This is in case someone is working on a power line during an outage, you are not powering up what is thought to be a de-energized line. Third, not all meters will work backwards, you must upgrade the meter itself to one that will - once again, at your own expense.

Wind is great in many parts of the country, because of the lower material cost. But here in Central Florida, solar is the only way to go - not enough wind to reliably generate enough power.

In cases like this, you could consider the option of running the power to a bank of batteries.

[whiteriver]

Have you considered making your own hydrogen and your own fuel cell. You would need solar or something else to produce the hydrogen. Home Power Magazine issue #35 June/July 1993 has a 7 page cookbook approach to building a fuel cell. Pretty simple with small shop tools. I have a small .pdf with it I would post but its copywrited by Wait Pyle. I also have a another one on makeing a solar powered hydogen producing generator. Very simple to do and looks like it works. Never got around to building one.
Here in North Idaho my electrical co-op said out of 30,000 customers None have be able to weed thru the government red tape to produce power back on to the main grid. They have a small isolated from the main grid 1000 customer served hydroelectric plant in western montana that some customers feed back into. No federal red tape there. So no problem.

Donny

www.whiterivermfg.com

[strat]

http://www.awea.org/smallwind/index.html
take a look here for the state by state programs from what i have read where i live if i wanted to feed back into the grid then its all about the elect co doing installs yearly checks ect there are also right offs on the cost of installing systems ect depends on where ya are and whos running the show

[Evodyne]

Have you considered making your own hydrogen and your own fuel cell. You would need solar or something else to produce the hydrogen. Home Power Magazine issue #35 June/July 1993 has a 7 page cookbook approach to building a fuel cell. Pretty simple with small shop tools. I have a small .pdf with it I would post but its copywrited by Wait Pyle. I also have a another one on makeing a solar powered hydogen producing generator. Very simple to do and looks like it works. Never got around to building one.
Here in North Idaho my electrical co-op said out of 30,000 customers None have be able to weed thru the government red tape to produce power back on to the main grid. They have a small isolated from the main grid 1000 customer served hydroelectric plant in western montana that some customers feed back into. No federal red tape there. So no problem.

Donny

www.whiterivermfg.com

I'd think the problem would be cost vs. benefit. Yeah, the hydrogen conversion will work, but the overall efficiency is horrible. Typical solar cells are 13% to 15% efficient to begin with. Then the electrolysis is somewhere between 50%-65% efficient on top of that. Then you either have to use more energy to compress the hydrogen for storage, or use metal hydrites which are expensive and have limited capacity. Finally, when you recover the hydrogen and run it through the fuel cell, there is about an 85% conversion efficiency there. And a DC to AC inverter is somewhere about 95% efficient. So your overall efficiency is only about 8%. The only real reason to convert to hydrogen is that it lends itself to long term storage (unlike batteries which will leak down over time). Other than that your better off storing in batteries or going grid tie, if possible.

Evodyne

[cncboss6]

Hello, I have a solar panel in my shop window that I use to charge my battery powered jump starters for my car. It is a 10 watt panel 12 volts. To make a solar cell you have to grow silicon crystals in a special oven under high heat and a special enviroment.
You need a lot of special processes, nasty chemicals, and expensive equipment. This is why they are so expensive to buy. The best I can suggest is take a tour of a solar panel plant like seimens. I have a cnc mill, and a shop full of equipment and I know as well as anybody that it is good to dream about things to build, but this is an impossiblity. Sorry, Pat

[cncboss6]

Hello, I have a solar panel in my shop window that I use to charge my battery powered jump starters for my car. It is a 10 watt panel 12 volts. To make a solar cell you have to grow silicon crystals in a special oven under high heat and a special enviroment.
You need a lot of special processes, nasty chemicals, and expensive equipment. This is why they are so expensive to buy. The best I can suggest is take a tour of a solar panel plant like seimens. I have a cnc mill, and a shop full of equipment and I know as well as anybody that it is good to dream about things to build, but this is an impossiblity. Sorry, Pat

[Geof]

I'd think the problem would be cost vs. benefit. Yeah, the hydrogen conversion will work, but the overall efficiency is horrible. Typical solar cells are 13% to 15% efficient to begin with. Then the electrolysis is somewhere between 50%-65% efficient on top of that. Then you either have to use more energy to compress the hydrogen for storage, or use metal hydrites which are expensive and have limited capacity. Finally, when you recover the hydrogen and run it through the fuel cell, there is about an 85% conversion efficiency there. And a DC to AC inverter is somewhere about 95% efficient. So your overall efficiency is only about 8%. The only real reason to convert to hydrogen is that it lends itself to long term storage (unlike batteries which will leak down over time). Other than that your better off storing in batteries or going grid tie, if possible.

Evodyne

I think it is safe to expect I could not palm any shares I have in Ballard Energy off on you.

[Evodyne]

Some interesting links...Phoenix Turbine started out researching Tesla turbines, but has grown to include solar-see this, this, and this. As far as the turbines themselves, there are some interesting videos here.
Red Rock Energy is an older site that hasn't been updated in a while, but which is geared towards solar heliostat systems and has lots of links.

I noted earlier that Indiana now has net metering for at least some providers-including mine. You have to put in a second meter, an outdoor emergeny disconnect, get the inverter O.K'd, and sign some papers. You get a credit for what you pump back into the grid on the following month's bill. I'm still trying to get ALL the details. Just bought three alternators from surpluscenter.com-Item# 6-104-432, $89.95 each(!), 5KW 270 VAC 3PH 120HZ ALTERNATOR. (see pic) They still ave three left as of 10/27. Just got mine delivered yesterday-they came with the manufacturer's warranty paperwork. I hope to adapt to wind turbines to pump power back into the grid. For $89 bucks I can't go wrong-even if they are a flop I can sell them for more.

MGB-I was involved in the first GM SunRayce cross country solar car race (See pic). We bought individual cells and soldered leads on then assembled them all into a large panel-got 1500 watts in direct sunlight (2 horsepower). Cells are better and cheaper today. You can't manufacture your own cells-just find some deals and build your own panels...

Evodyne

[Arnaudb]

The base of solar cells is a layer of pure silicone.

IMO you can't produce monocrystalline solar cell. Even if PV cells do not require electronic quality.

But, some PV are made of polycrystalline silicium. When I was student I worked in a lab that experiment chemical vapor deposition of polycrystalline silicium.

Within an hich vaccum then throw silane gaz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silane, please read carefully the hazard section) on some hot wire. Behind the wire is the substrat where the silicium crystals grow.

It was 10 years ago I can't tell more, I forgot. try google for more information...

Sorry for the slope of the pen, english is not my native tongue.

[bostosh]

Matt in San Diego, and all.

We have in SD a place developing a solar solution
They just may get it done.
http://www.pyronsolar.com/
I cannot expect too much from solar quite yet.
There is a prototype in El Cajon.
And they did get a ton of cash to play with.
The physics breakthrough has not happened yet, more money, more research and more brains needed.

[yarko]

Hello,

This is a good project idea. Apparently it's very expensive to make traditional solar cells at home, but there's another kind that's much cheaper.

The thing is called a dye solar cell. It uses juice from blackberries.

Here are some instructions googled:
http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/educatio...SolarCells.pdf

This is real and makes power, but doesn't last nearly as long.

Hope that helps.