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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller
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  1. #1001
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    Oct 2005
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    2392
    I agree! That's a nice setup you hsve there Jvarga!

    It's also good to see you have added the clear plastic insulation plate over the high-voltage area of the Super-PID, keeping those LCD wires protected.

  2. #1002
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    I am a bit reluctant to plough through 1000 posts to find out, so maybe Roman you could tell me what is the nature of the SO input for a V1? the manual says Analogue input?
    I want to experiment with a couple of different ferrous detect devices for input.
    Is it digital, sink or source?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #1003
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    what is the nature of the SO input for a V1? the manual says Analogue input?
    Al, do you mean the P0 speed control input? If so, it is a high impedance, DC voltage input that expects 0v and 5v and determines the spindle speed between minimum and maximum RPM ranges.
    airnocker
    Everything depends on everything else

  4. #1004
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    No, I want to replace the retro reflective device fitted to the Ver 1 with one of a couple of special ferrous detectors I have.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  5. #1005
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    You're looking very nautical there Al. First time I have seen the new avatar.

    OK, to answer your question, the spindle sensor "SO" input is designed to handle many types of RPM sensor, analogue or digital. Specifically it will work well with the analogue optical sensor as supplied with the SuperPID but it will also work well with a digital input like a hall sensor. It was designed to support both.

    Both the v1 and v2 SuperPIDs will work with most sensor types, and the trigger threshold is around 2.5v. It has a weak pull-up to 5v of about 50k ohms.

    You can drive the "SO" input perfectly with a 5v squarewave, either TTL or CMOS or any typical open-drain hall switch.

    I can give more help if you provide info on the type of "ferrous detector". Most that I have seen are used on cars for detecting metal cog teeth and are just a hall sensor combined with a small permanent magnet. I think they usually have open-drain outputs.

    Make sure you use the "View spindle" mode to test the new sensor is giving ONE clean pulse per spindle revolution, with no edge glitching. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

  6. #1006
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    20

    Universal Motor Speed Controller Using Back EMF as Feedback

    -- Since this thread is more alive, I'll ask my questions here --
    When the PWM on one of these speed controllers turns off, doesn't the motor produce back EMF acting as a generator? I have been considering building a speed controller that samples the voltage during the off cycle of the PWM to measure the motor's speed. This could then be used in the control loop to adjust the PWM duty cycle and thereby maintain constant speed. Thoughts? Is this available commercially somewhere?

  7. #1007
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    DC motors produce a back EMF based roughly on speed. It's a poor speed feedback system as it does not cope well with dynamic loads like the pulse load from the cutting teeth of a router tool. It also is pretty useless with AC motors.

    The very best system is to measure the router shaft speed directly which is what the Super-PID does. And yes it's commercially available.

  8. #1008
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216
    Roman what is the source of the magnets you are using if I convert this to the Hall type sensor?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  9. #1009
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    20

    Super-PID

    NICE pics/control panel! So what level of "Commercially available" is super-pid or its equivalent?

  10. #1010
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #1011
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    2392
    Al_the_man- please check earlier in the thread, somewhere in the first 3 or 4 pages I cut some donut shaped plastic mounts to hold 2 small ebay magnets, I think they were 3mm dia by 2mm thick. Actually I think you provided some input there too.

    Sparks-n-chips- The SuperPID is supplied fully assembled and tested, you basically just need to put it in a safe box, mount the opto sensor to the router, and screw in the wires. Please read through the thread there are lots of user installs showing how they put the Super-PID on their machines and how they mounted the opto speed sensor.

    On the other hand if you really just need a fairly basic speed control like the back-EMF system then many of the new routers have decent speed controls already built in. Check out the PorterCable models, Colt, and the Hitachi M12VC. The SuperPID goes one step up with exact speed control, lower RPM, better power and stability, an accurate RPM tacho display, and the ability to attach directly to your PC setup to turn it on/off and control speed with your CNC software like Mach3 and EMC2.

  12. #1012

    Just Took The Plunge

    Hi,

    Just ordered the Super PID V2

    I have a Shopbot PRT CNC Router and have 2 routers. One is a Porter Cable 7518 and the other is a Makita RF1101. Currently only the P/C 7518 is installed on the machine. (Note: The Shopbot PRT does have dual spindle capability with 2 routers installed. I realize that I can only operate one router with the SUPER PID at a time.) I ordered a spare RPM Sensor for the Makita RF1101 in case I want to use that router on the machine. Initially, I intend to just operate the SUPER PID with the hand-turn speed pot but intend to eventually convert it over to Mach3 control.

    I have looked at the discussion and associated pictures of the Porter Cable 7518 install by CARVEONE and looks like he did a nice job on the install.

    I haven't seen where anyone has done a SUPER PID install on a Makita RF1101. If anyone has done this and has any information and pictures it would be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance for any information you may supply.

    John
    2007 HAAS TM-1P OneCNC XR5 Mill Pro. Shopbot PRT running Mach3 2010 Screen Set, Super PID and PMDX Electronics.Check out my Gallery on: http://[email protected]

  13. #1013
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    Oct 2005
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    2392
    Hi HelicopterJohn and thanks for your order.

    I have a photo in my collecion of a mod done on a Makita MTR100, but I don't know if that is a similar router to your RF1101.

    If you could post a photo of your router it should be possible to suggest options on where to mount the opto speed sensor.

  14. #1014
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post
    Hi HelicopterJohn and thanks for your order.

    I have a photo in my collecion of a mod done on a Makita MTR100, but I don't know if that is a similar router to your RF1101.

    If you could post a photo of your router it should be possible to suggest options on where to mount the opto speed sensor.
    It isn't similar to the MTR100, the RF1101 is way more powerful and has speed regulation. It would have been my choice if it wasn't twice as expensive as que MTR100.

    Regarding the MTR100, I think it's called MT370 in other countries (under the Maktec brand, still Makita). I've read it shares a lot with the Makita 3709, so it might be just as easy to use with the SPID.

    RF1101 parts breakdown:
    http://www.google.cl/url?sa=t&source...p7FjLSMAYoZxXQ

    Seems the sensor could be mounted in pretty much the same way I mounted it to the MTR100, by drilling a hole on top of the plastic bearing cover.

  15. #1015

    Makita RF1101

    I have attached a few pictures of the Makita RF1101. The speed controller was burned up in this router and the former owner threw it away. It does run wide open and thought this would be a great candidate for the SUPER PID
    Conversion. I think he told me it was one of the quietest routers on the market.

    If you look under the bearing housing and the brown ring possibly it could be painted white and black and the sensor put in from the side.

    I tried to pull the top bearing plate off with no success. Does anyone have any ideas how the top bearing plate is removed.

    Hi Walky,

    Thanks for the parts breakdown. Could possibly use a disassembly manual???

    John
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1045a.jpg   IMG_1046a.jpg   IMG_1047a.jpg  
    2007 HAAS TM-1P OneCNC XR5 Mill Pro. Shopbot PRT running Mach3 2010 Screen Set, Super PID and PMDX Electronics.Check out my Gallery on: http://[email protected]

  16. #1016
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    Thanks for the info Walky.

    HelicopterJohn, it's quite possible the router has 2 long "through" bolts, the heads are on the bottom and they go right up to secure the top plate.

    It also looks like there is room at the bottom to mount the opto sensor on the round shaft close to the housing (between the housing and the hex).

    That brown area near the commutator might also be a good place to point the opto sensor.

  17. #1017
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    499

    Thanks!

    I was going over this thread and realized I never posted a picture of the SuperPID installed and running, so here it is. (There is a writeup of doing mine at Snailworks CNC Builder Log on page 5 if interested)

    I would also like to say what a joy this thing has brought - I can now cut many different materials while still being able to talk to someone while it is running. (I am using a Bosch Colt, and it is very loud when running at full speed.) I now find myself going down the aisle of the hardware store wondering what speed I would cut this or that material! I know - I've got it bad.

    Thanks, Roman for doing this. (In fact, this PID control stuff got me interested in the control of Quadcopters, which is a current project. They use rotational change and acceleration changes in three axes as their feedback, not rpms. Tuning them is the challenge, as you know.)

    Anyway. thanks again for an enjoyable project!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails superPID.jpg  
    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright

  18. #1018
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    Wow nice looking setup RevWarGuy! Are those 6 LCD voltmeters for your 3 axes?

    I'm very happy that you like the Super-PID, that's what it is all about. Making our tools better.

  19. #1019
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    499
    The top LCD is the main supply voltage. It reads 47.9 in the pic, I guess I need to tweak it a bit to 48.0.

    Back when I was building the power supply, there was a thread somewhere on the Zone about reports of temperatures getting high on the steppers and supplies while cutting - too hot to even touch them. At that time I found some cheap $3 digital temperature gauges and decided to put the matter to the test. I've got one on each stepper, one on the router, on the main power supply, and on the G540. It turns out, nothing gets very hot even after running it for a while. $18 and some wire to find out, but I would say not really necessary - I love to measure things.

    I haven't put one on the SuperPID heatsink, though. Think it gets very hot driving my Colt at low RPMs in tough material?
    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright

  20. #1020
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    No, just the opposite your Colt will likely be running at about 35% power (and 35% duty) so the SuperPID TRIAC device will run quite cool.

    Considering the nice "holey" heatsink you have I doubt it would get much warmer than body temp.

Page 51 of 121 41495051525361101

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