[rlrhett]

The Arduino is only a microprocessor, not a single board computer like a Pi. It functions more like the Gecko G540. The Arduino is powered by the +5v wire of the USB cable connected to a PC. It is grounded to the PC through the ground wire of the USB cable.

The SuperPID is powered by a Mean Well Switching Regulated Power Supply that is grounded to the ground pin of the mains power supply.

The SuperPID and the Arduino controller are not powered by the same source. I am not an electrical engineer, but I understand that attempting to connect multiple grounds can create problems. Are you suggesting that the COM from the Arduino should be connected to the GND of the SuperPID? Can you explain why you think that would create the problem of the SuperPID ignoring the duty cycle of the PWM and running the router at full speed?

[rlrhett]

Since the analog potentiometer seems to work in my set up, I am considering filtering the PWM signal with a DAC. It seems that the SuperPID was made with an analog input in mind, and I can't really find any references to other people successfully driving spindle speed with PWM.

Before I go down that route, I am wondering if anyone has managed to actually work the SuperPID with a PWM signal for spindle speed?

[Al_The_Man]

The SuperPID is powered by a Mean Well Switching Regulated Power Supply that is grounded to the ground pin of the mains power supply.

The SuperPID and the Arduino controller are not powered by the same source. I am not an electrical engineer, but I understand that attempting to connect multiple grounds can create problems. Are you suggesting that the COM from the Arduino should be connected to the GND of the SuperPID? Can you explain why you think that would create the problem of the SuperPID ignoring the duty cycle of the PWM and running the router at full speed?

The DC side of Meanwell P.S. is isolated from ground.
The SuperPID just needs a 5v supply, apart from the mains supply.
There have been many previous posts as to grounding different parts of the system commons, two schools of thought exists, for what it's worth I have always grounded all P.S. to the common star point GND.
Never had a problem, for example, some make use of the PC 5v supply for non-isolated BOB's etc, this 5v common is connected to earth GND in the PC.
The best way if using a PWM signal is to set up an opamp PWM to analogue signal.
Al.

[airnocker]

The DC side of Meanwell P.S. is isolated from ground.
The SuperPID just needs a 5v supply, apart from the mains supply.
There have been many previous posts as to grounding different parts of the system commons, two schools of thought exists, for what it's worth I have always grounded all P.S. to the common star point GND.
Never had a problem, for example, some make use of the PC 5v supply for non-isolated BOB's etc, this 5v common is connected to earth GND in the PC.
The best way if using a PWM signal is to set up an opamp PWM to analogue signal.

Al.

I agree with Al_The_Man. The Arduino GND af it's 5V DC (and any other DC) supply should be connected to the DC or Signal GND of the SuperPID ...and let's be clear.... NOT in any way should any DC GND of anything be connected to the 110VAC earth safety ground of anything.

Does this easier to understand. Let us and we will endeavor to help you in any way we can.

All the best,

[Al_The_Man]

Actually my post intended the opposite, where possible, supplies that are isolated from the mains power, SMPS etc, in my case have the common power terminals connected to the service earth GND where is enters the enclosure, these are taken to the star point ground.
As I said, there are two schools of though, For the last many decades I have opted for the earth grounding of commons side of the issue, rather than total isolation.
Your desktop/tower PC does it with it's power supply internally through the Mobo ground plane and input power conductor ground..
I should also note that I did CNC installations and retro-fits as part of my career, so it does not cover the odd one or two installations.
There are many previous posts here of posters complaining of spurious triggering of inputs etc, after carrying out the suggestion of earth grounding the commons, it invariably cleared the issue up
You can opt for either methods.
Al.

[rlrhett]

For now, I have connected both the SPID's ground terminal and the DC- of the Means Well Power Supply to the Arduino's GND pin and the SPID is now behaving as expected with proper RPM's to the router. If I have any further issues I will look into a star point ground.

Thank you all for your help.

[airnocker]

Actually my post intended the opposite, where possible, supplies that are isolated from the mains power, SMPS etc, in my case have the common power terminals connected to the service earth GND where is enters the enclosure, these are taken to the star point ground.
As I said, there are two schools of though, For the last many decades I have opted for the earth grounding of commons side of the issue, rather than total isolation.
Your desktop/tower PC does it with it's power supply internally through the Mobo ground plane and input power conductor ground..
I should also note that I did CNC installations and retro-fits as part of my career, so it does not cover the odd one or two installations.
There are many previous posts here of posters complaining of spurious triggering of inputs etc, after carrying out the suggestion of earth grounding the commons, it invariably cleared the issue up
You can opt for either methods.
Al.

Al, I see what you are saying. Thanks

For now, I have connected both the SPID's ground terminal and the DC- of the Means Well Power Supply to the Arduino's GND pin and the SPID is now behaving as expected with proper RPM's to the router. If I have any further issues I will look into a star point ground.

That's great news. Now, go have some fun!

[airnocker]

Would it be possible to use one Super PID with 2 routers? Maybe use a contactor to switch power between the two?

Sure, its possible, but it would require some diligent operation procedures. What a major hassle though. Think of all the connections that have to be switched from the one breakout board and the two router CNC machines.

Sorry, I don't know where Ger21's post originated.

[shirleyfamily]

I'm interested in it too. Is there any possibility that I can get a better price?

[rlrhett]

I spoke too soon. It turns out the grounding I've done, at least so far, hasn't solved the problem. It appears that in my exhaustion trying to problem solve this I connected the SuperPID's PWM terminal to the - terminal of the Arduino/Ramps control board by mistake. I was so happy that it wasn't running at FULL RPM that I failed to notice it was running at an INVERTED rpm. Whatever speed is called for in my G code is SUBTRACTED from the top speed of 30,000rpm. Thus a S10000 results in 20000rpm and a S25000 results in 5000rmp. While that is better than nothing, I still would like to have this working properly.

One thing I noticed is that the PWM on the SuperPID is ENERGIZED with 5v. Without connecting the Arduino/RAMPS to the PWM terminal on the SuperPID I can measure +5V on the SuperPID's PWM terminal. Is that normal?

It certainly isn't what the Arduino/RAMPS is expecting. The Arduino is ENERGIZING a 5v circuit according to the duty cycle. I can confirm with a multi-meter connected to the PWM+/- terminals that I get 66% duty cycle for S20000 and 33% at S10000, so the problem doesn't seem to be with the control board. Why would the PWM terminal on the SuperPID already have a load?

Anyhow, does this INVERTED rpm give anyone a hint as to what is wrong?

[airnocker]

I spoke too soon. It turns out the grounding I've done, at least so far, hasn't solved the problem. It appears that in my exhaustion trying to problem solve this I connected the SuperPID's PWM terminal to the - terminal of the Arduino/Ramps control board by mistake. I was so happy that it wasn't running at FULL RPM that I failed to notice it was running at an INVERTED rpm. Whatever speed is called for in my G code is SUBTRACTED from the top speed of 30,000rpm. Thus a S10000 results in 20000rpm and a S25000 results in 5000rmp. While that is better than nothing, I still would like to have this working properly.

One thing I noticed is that the PWM on the SuperPID is ENERGIZED with 5v. Without connecting the Arduino/RAMPS to the PWM terminal on the SuperPID I can measure +5V on the SuperPID's PWM terminal. Is that normal?

It certainly isn't what the Arduino/RAMPS is expecting. The Arduino is ENERGIZING a 5v circuit according to the duty cycle. I can confirm with a multi-meter connected to the PWM+/- terminals that I get 66% duty cycle for S20000 and 33% at S10000, so the problem doesn't seem to be with the control board. Why would the PWM terminal on the SuperPID already have a load?

Anyhow, does this INVERTED rpm give anyone a hint as to what is wrong?

Super-PID V1 and V2 expects a positive going PWM pulse train between 0v-5v., where if the pulse train duty-cycle is close to 100% positive will result in the router running at its fastest speed.
It is NOT expecting any kind of RAMP voltage. If you want to provide the Super-PID with a varying voltage value that ramps up from 0v to 5v you need to make the connection to the Super-PID terminals as the instructions indicate where the wiper of a potentiometer would be connected to the terminal block.

Here's a novel idea, why don't you post a schematic for how you are connecting your device signal and the type of signal you are sending to the Super-PID, i.e. ramp vs PWM, etc. from your Arduino, and to which Super-PID terminals your connections are being made.

If you are sending a PWM signal from your Arduino to the Super-PID, are you employing any router shaft encoding speed signal feedback to your Arduino? If so, your connections should look like that shown on page 23 of the Super-PID V2 Instruction PDF.

[rlrhett]

Thank you, but It is called a RAMPS 1.4 shield for the Arduino. That is short for “Rerap Arduino Mega Pololu Shield”. It is actually quite a popular and established controller. It is used on literally millions of machines, primarily in 3D printing and laser cutters, but also for popular CNC machines like the ShapeOKO. It is NOT a ramping voltage.

The controller is outputting 0-5v PWM signal from 0% to 100% duty cycle. In fact, Arduinos are incapable of producing an analog output.

I can’t explain what an Arduino is here, but more information can be found here:

https://reprap.org/wiki/Arduino_Mega_Pololu_Shield

Perhaps someone with a better idea of what an Arduino/grbl setup is has an idea? I am especially confused as to why the PWM input pin on the SuperPID has a positive voltage when not connected to anything.

I’ve tried to be very precise as to what my setup is, but they say a picture is worth a thousand words. The arrow I drew appears to point to the PG terminal, but I mean the PWM terminal. That’s where I’m getting an unexpected voltage.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Al_The_Man]

The control input for the SuperPID is an analog signal and in the simple version it is a pot using +5v - input - gnd.
So there will obviously be a voltage required to feed the Pot, in the case of an external analog signal, this only needs to be from GND and Input, the 5v is left unconnected.
Same for the PWM
Al.

[rlrhett]

The VS and POT are jumpered together, per the instructions. There is nothing connected to the P5 terminal. I still read a voltage on the PWM terminal.

Are you suggesting the VS and POT should NOT be jumpered together?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[airnocker]

Thank you, but It is called a RAMPS 1.4 shield for the Arduino. That is short for “Rerap Arduino Mega Pololu Shield”. It is actually quite a popular and established controller. It is used on literally millions of machines, primarily in 3D printing and laser cutters, but also for popular CNC machines like the ShapeOKO. It is NOT a ramping voltage.

The controller is outputting 0-5v PWM signal from 0% to 100% duty cycle. In fact, Arduinos are incapable of producing an analog output.

I can’t explain what an Arduino is here, but more information can be found here:

https://reprap.org/wiki/Arduino_Mega_Pololu_Shield

Perhaps someone with a better idea of what an Arduino/grbl setup is has an idea? I am especially confused as to why the PWM input pin on the SuperPID has a positive voltage when not connected to anything.

I’ve tried to be very precise as to what my setup is, but they say a picture is worth a thousand words. The arrow I drew appears to point to the PG terminal, but I mean the PWM terminal. That’s where I’m getting an unexpected voltage.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm well familiar with the Arduino, primarily the Uno. As long as your Arduino PWM control line and the Arduino GND are connected as you show, it should be working fine.
In terms of what you are measuring on the Super-PID 's PWM pin, as long as your PWM supplied 0-5v signal is pulling the PWM pin down to 0v, it doesn't matter. I'd have to open my Super-PID enclosure up to see if there is normally 5V on the PWM Super-PID port when no external signal is applied.

Al-the-man states that an analog voltage from a potentiometer wiper could be used to control the router speed. But you are not using the analog option. So you are on the right track for implementing PWM control.

If your Arduino PWM output is producing positive going 5v pulses from 0v, the norm for off, with narrow pulses widely spaced at low speeds and wider pulses more closely spaced for higher speeds (understand that I mean the pulse interval is a constant frequency) then that is what Super-PID is expecting. Super-PID has no knowledge or interest in how your G-code producing or reading software interprets your Arduino PWM pulse train. That is something that has to be dealt with (configured) solely in the G-code producing/reading software aka RAMPS.

Sounds like you need to invert the PWM signal sent to Super-PID. That your getting a speed change that is inverted to what is desired means you are close to having it work properly.

[swallace84]

I recently accomplished the attached wiring so that I can easily switch between cnc and laser on my openbuilds lead 1010. I use the dewalt 611. I'm interested in the super pid and they told me that I should double check here about how super pid wiring would be added to my attached diagram.

Super pid said: He said the IOT switch can
probably connect to Super-PID RUN terminal. May need to use a relay.

I have a response in the openbuilds forum that says:
You can add it, same as your diagram, the PWM signal wire to the SuperPID passes through your switch

Just remember to set $30 gnea/grbl so the spindle speed scales correctly

I, however, and not well versed in this type of thing. And need it explained in layman's terms. Many thanks for any pointers.
cheers
stuart

[airnocker]

Can you please provide more specific information for which Blackbox PWM switch you are using and why you would even need an IoT switch if you want to replace it with the Super-PID. What is the black wire "spliced" together from the PWM controller to the IoT and J Tech Laser Controller? are the components shown in your diagram purchased from the openbuilds 1010 website?

Are you aware of the modifications you would need to make to your Dewalt 611 in order to use it with the Super-PID?

What CNC software are you using to control the machine?

[rstrease]

I am trying to hook up and get running the Super PID on my CNC Machine. I am using a Porter Cable 892 Router. My setup uses a Gecko G540 and ethernet smooth stepper running Mach3. I am attaching screenshots from Mach 3 as well as my wiring diagram for anyone to look at and maybe see what I am doing wrong. I can run the router in POT mode but when I try and control (start and Stop) the router through Mach 3 it does not work. I am not sure if it is my wiring done incorrect or if I have a setting in my software that is not correct. Any help would be great.

[airnocker]

I am trying to hook up and get running the Super PID on my CNC Machine. I am using a Porter Cable 892 Router. My setup uses a Gecko G540 and ethernet smooth stepper running Mach3. I am attaching screenshots from Mach 3 as well as my wiring diagram for anyone to look at and maybe see what I am doing wrong. I can run the router in POT mode but when I try and control (start and Stop) the router through Mach 3 it does not work. I am not sure if it is my wiring done incorrect or if I have a setting in my software that is not correct. Any help would be great.

Can you confirm that you have made the modifications to your PC 892 router for the optical RPM sensor feedback control?

[rstrease]

I have made the changes to my router.