[ryderz]

hello, i bought a cnc table from shopsabre about 2 months, and things are not what i expected. has any buddy else got a table from these people. if so have u had any technical difficulty's.?

[jimcolt]

Provide us some details.....what plasma, what kind of problems, etc.

Jim

[ryderz]

well im not sure if im n the right spot its for metal. i just think i made a mistake buying a shopsabre. from being mislead before buying, to a real late delivery, to major programing problems. the table was forgetting were home was, wasting stainless. its been a nightmare. the programmer Ben has been very helpful, and trying to help get the bugs out. i just figured for that amount of money invested, problems like these wouldn't have happened. if this would have been a new car, i would have returned it..!

i just dont think ill have trust in this cutter for a while. no big projects for sure..!

[jimcolt]

There always is a learning curve associated with cnc machines such as this. The vast majority of buyers of these entry level cnc plasma's have a tough time for the first few weeks and months. There are many, many parameters associated with the plasma, the torch height control, the motion control, as well as with the CAD and CAM functions that have to be done correctly, or the result (the cut part) is less than perfect. There is no textbook that will help out, as every manufcaturer does things a bit differently.

My best advice is to stick with it, provide details of your issues on this and other forums, work with the manufacturer and I suspect the machine will start working better for you.

So, details! What make and model plasma system? How is your machine equipped? What software? Does the machine have a full featured torch height control system?

Then, what type of problems are you experiencing? Is the plasma misfiring? Is the cut quality bad (describe (edge angularity, dross, out of tolerance, bad holes)? Is consumable life short? Is the computer crashing? Is the machine not following the cut path accurately?

These are all things that we can likely help with.

Jim Colt

[ryderz]

well i just think that when u call a place (being in the market for a table), that they should be a little more honest. they need to say it will take u a couple months to get the hang of things, and that u wont be cutting parts for a customer right when u get it. i just dont belive in misleading people. i have ran a business for a long time, i sell a bunch of different brands to complete my sale. if one of those parts fail, im still responsible to fix it. even if i didnt make it. this company doesnt belive in this.!

i have one of there sidekicks. its a 4x8 table. it does have the tourch height control. this cutter hasnt made a nice part sence i have had it.yesterday ben was helping getting the machine dialed in, and for the first time it made a couple decent cuts (in 14 gage) not peices,cuts.! i was led to belive that this cutter would do 1/4 stainless. then when it didnt, the response i got was i didnt ask if it would do a quality cut. ya it cuts stainless.

one of the biggest problems im having is that the cutter will make like 30 cuts or so, then it seems like it doesnt know where it is, and goes to cut a hole where there shouldnt be one. it has done this many times. it also wouldnt start. it would go down touch off, and not start. over and over again. then when u want to go home, u hit the home button and it goes to the middle of the table at the end, does its little up and down bit, and thinks its at home. u have to turn everything off, then turn it all back on, then hit home, and it goes back to the corner where home actually is.

if u r just trying to cut a circle it does great. if u r trying to cut 100 circles then u r screwed. it finds a way to mess up. like when i got it, it draged the metal on the table. it didnt matter what the setting were it would go touch of, and drag the metal.

they sent me a new cord for the computer to the plasma, i turned everything off, unpluged the cord, pluged the new one in, turned it back on, and the computer crashed..! so know there is another 100.00 to get the computer fixed. i asked them if it was my fault or theres, and they just said it not theres. but if i would have never swaped that cord, then i would have never had to pay 100.00 to fix the crashed computer.

[ryderz]

you know i cant belive all the things im reading about this company, and there product. if it wasnt for Ben being so helpfull, and putting up with my attitude i would have reported them to the better business bural. maybe this is just one of those bad deals. either way, Ben u the man, thanks for helping me thru this bad deal. i have to say this tho. i still have no faith in this machine.

[jimcolt]

Instead of just complaining about it.....how about telling us more about it so we can help you make it run better. There are a few experts on this site....and a direct quote from my previous post:

"So, details! What make and model plasma system? How is your machine equipped? What software? Does the machine have a full featured torch height control system?

Then, what type of problems are you experiencing? Is the plasma misfiring? Is the cut quality bad (describe (edge angularity, dross, out of tolerance, bad holes)? Is consumable life short? Is the computer crashing? Is the machine not following the cut path accurately?"

I know there are quite a few happy customers with ShopSabre machines....I'm sure you can be one as well.

Jim

[ryderz]

well i guess u will have to forgive me for expecting a "turn key system" like i paid for.

i told u n my last message, its a sidekick 4x8 table. it does have the tourch height control. some of those questions i dont have the answer for, but every cut is loaded with slag, the cut chart for the 60 amp cutter is garbage. none of the set cut levels are with in 40 marks of what it says to cut at. if u set the cutter with there ipm it wont cut thru, it wont blow thru. it says to cut half inch at 27, well it dont even blow thru half inch.1/4 inch it says mdelay .25, ya right try 1.25 and cut is 86, it only cuts thru at 38-39 ipm. keep in mind that i can make these cuts only when the table feels like moving. they were going to send me a new limit switch on the gantry, it is sticking, i havnt recived it yet.

u know i need u to understand that i am a busy person. i dont really have time for a broken table. i shouldnt have to fix it. i do appreciate any help i can get, its just that its been 2 months now, and my patients are gone.

[ryderz]

well i had a long sesion with ben again today (good dude). it ended with him needing to call me back. it seems like the Arc voltage jumps around alot. the cutter leaves alot of slag. we do alot of test, and it doesnt seem to want to stay were we set the target voltage to be. like if we set the voltage at 158..... its jumps between 150 to 179 180. so it raises and lowers the cutter into the metal, and even drags it. the last thing mentioned was the ground. that cant be it, i told him. there r 2 grounds one is a peice of copper 10 ft n the ground always wet because of the building run off drains, and the second it 6 ft long 2 ft over solid grinded down steel (always shaded no sun).

we didnt get to talk about y the table goes off on its own and decides to cut out of know where.

[Navigator7]

hello, i bought a cnc table from shopsabre about 2 months, and things are not what i expected. has any buddy else got a table from these people. if so have u had any technical difficulty's.?

@ ryderz,

I'm very interested in how this turns out for you. I too am interested in purchasing a ShopSabre.

ShopSabre has turned me from other competitive products because they say their products "Just Work". I use strictly Macs for work and they "Just Work" so ShopSabre has my attention and most likely my money.

However, I don't expect to produce widgets without fully understanding the machine by taking baby steps and $$$Baby$$$ ri$ks.

I've yet to talk to a dissatisfied ShopSabre owner. Most rave or have the "pregnant woman glow" regarding their new baby.

You wrote:

u know i need u to understand that i am a busy person. i dont really have time for a broken table. i shouldnt have to fix it. i do appreciate any help i can get, its just that its been 2 months now, and my patients are gone.

I'm 55. I've seen and done lots of things. Frankly, lucky to be alive.
I troubleshooted as part of my job and found that humans don't treat machines alike.
Your sloppy writing style, poor punctuation and typos inspired me to respond with a conclusion you simply wanted to exchange money for instant results.
Perhaps you should have bought the parts from a shop dedicated to their craft?


Let me use a comparable analogy!:
Consider the Bobcat....a versatile tool for moving earth and many other things. They are everywhere.
In the hands of a novice, these machines are deadly.
In the hands of a pro, the machine is a graceful workhorse.
Here is proof of my observation:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHRa2-aMnw&p=D2570311E0F04322&playnext=1&index=34"]YouTube - bobcat freestyle[/nomedia]

How can you be considered as talented with your Shopsabre on day one as somebody trained and experienced?


Let me hit on you a little more:

o People can be busy yet unproductive. I'm as guilty as the next guy. There is busy and there is productive. Done properly, we prosper.

o Who has time for a broken anything? Start up on a new machine with inexperienced people at the helm is an accident waiting for a place to happen. (I know...you are busy and don't have time for this)

o I agree ...you shouldn't have to fix and new machine but in your haste and busy work might you have damaged the machine the moment it came into your shop?

o Patience = "is the state of endurance under difficult circumstances, which can mean persevering in the face of delay or provocation without acting on annoyance/anger in a negative way; or exhibiting forbearance when under strain, especially when faced with longer-term difficulties. It is also used to refer to the character trait of being steadfast."

You wrote "Patients" which = "A patient is any person who receives medical attention, care, or treatment. The person is most often ill or injured and in need of treatment by a physician or other health care professional, although one who is visiting a physician for a routine check-up may also be viewed as a patient."


If you applied the same attention to detail installing your ShopSabre; and put the same effort into creating files; ... As you applied in your post to us, perhaps the machine is doing precisely what it was told?

Frankly, I can't tell whether you are a steal guy, (Or should that be steel guy?) or a physician?

If you are a steel guy, you would know precisely what your plasma machine will cut. You should be able to evaluate the cut ...even by sound and instantly be able to adjust the machine to make a proper cut.

On the other hand, perhaps I am full of it?

[ryderz]

well when im on here i wasn't to worried about if i was passing a spelling class. maybe thats y i dont get results i talk and type to fast. i thought u guys want to know about the problems, not grade my writing. well u can make your own judgment about this topic, and still in the end i have a big paper weight. if u want to buy a table like this fine. i hope u dont have the issues i have. good luck..!

[jpgdesigns]

which plasma unit did you get with your sidekick table?

[Navigator7]

in the end i have a big paper weight. if u want to buy a table like this fine. i hope u dont have the issues i have. good luck..!

What is needed is substantive dialog from you. Not potshots at a company producing products sold around the world.

i just think i made a mistake buying a shopsabre. ~ Ryderz

I bought a $65k Zcorp 510 3D printer. It was a mistake.
The machine worked as advertised.
The fault was mine thinking I could produce products and make a profit.
It really produces ideas.
I'm in the wrong field to produce ideas.

Is it possible you really bought the wrong machine for your needs and it's all ShopSabre's fault?

[jimcolt]

I have to agree with Navigator. In order for us to help troubleshoot your problem you need to clearly describe all of the equipment, and what it is doing.

Stating that you have a 60 Amp plasma tells me nothing, there are a dozen different 60 Amp plasma systems available. If you tell me its a Hypertherm Powermax1000, and you are trying to cut 1/4" steel at 86 inches per minute at 60 Amps with a pierce height of .15" and a cut height of .08", yet the torch is dragging on the plate.....then I would ask a few more questions, we would go back and forth a few times.....and eventually we would solve your issues. Instead you are just rambling about how the machine did not work perfect on day one. There is a learning curve with every cnc plasma, regardless of the brand. It may be a turnkey machine, but you have to learn how to use it. There are dozens of parameters to set to cut one part....when they are set incorrectly, the machine will display symptoms similar to what you sort of described. I'm still willing to help, but not unless you help us understand what you are experiencing.

Jim

[rgh]

I have been following this thread for a few days. I don't have a Plasma cutter, but do have a ShopSabre CNC router. I agree with the comments from the group that there is a significant learning curve to these machines. I bought thinking it was just another machine for the shop, and found myself in a bit of trouble for being so naive. As the group stated, there are a lot of parameters, and you can't take these things out of the box and expect them to just go. I will say that once we got past my learning curve, and some machine rework (they could have tested a bit more), the machine has been stable and reliable. I have heard many stories of folks buying CNC's to fulfill an immediate need and finding out too late that the learning curve is significant, thus blowing the project. The $100K+ machines come with weeks of on-site training and professional set-up for a reason. Those of us who choose the lower cost entry machines take on the responsibility for knowing what we are doing, and working with the personalities inherent with these complex machines until we can get them dialed in.

Thanks to groups like CNC Zone, experts who are willing to provide a little free advice, and help keep the vendors focused on support, us newbies have a fighting chance.

Though I empathize with your concerns, I think you need to step back a few feet and let the reality set in on what you have gotten yourself into. Then breathe deep and let these folks and ShopSabre's support staff help you by providing quality input. Without it, you are just ranting and wasting everybody's time.

By the way, Ben is one of the most helpful folks I have worked with from a vendor. I don't necessarily think that ShopSabre is as customer oriented as they could be, but Ben is always there to help when I need anything. (And with these machines, there is bound to be a configuration issue here and there that you won't find documentation on)

Good luck with your implementation. Once you get past the initial setup issues, I think you will find that ShopSabre is a good choice for the price range.

[ryderz]

u know i had all kinds of things to say after reading these post, about how the table was 6 weeks late. i paid for a probe, and to have it installed, but no probe, no install, and no refund. got a probe in the mail tho..! how they(Jim,john,josh,and Ben) have been working on the table since i have had it, that they picked my plasma (hyper 1000)........... but no one would care, they are to into there "pregnant woman glow"......so Mr "I troubleshooted as part of my job" can u tell me why the tables arc voltage jumps all over place #1 ......... then can u tell me why the table goes down and touches off but wont fire repeatedly #2 ........ please keep in mind that the tables ground reads with in parameters with there ancient light test..!

im going to have to apologize, for im not part of the forbes 500, and cant thro around this kind of money. i went off what this company said, and bought what they had to offer. yes, maybe i bought into there bull****, and yes it might be harder then i expected. i do know how to write programs, i know how to load the metal, and i know that the table doesn't cut like promised, that the table has issues that i cant fix. i can tell u that all my machines are paid for, and im a zero dept company..! i must have half a brain. so please, unless u can help me fix the problems MR "I troubleshooted as part of my job" THEN PUT YOUR 2 CENTS IN ANOTHER TOPIC..!

[ryderz]

ITS A SIDEKICK table
plasma hyper 1000.
im try to cut at 40 ipm.
the arc is set to 140.
but jumps from 135 to 155.
its 1/4 steel.
the plasma is wired 3 phase.
they have sent a new touch cord that plugs into the wall, and plasma.
the cut chart that came with the plasma, can only be used at half the recommendations. and more wont pierce.

[jimcolt]

OK, now we are getting somewhere.

You should be using the cut charts in the Hypertherm manual that are for mechanized cutting (you have not yet revealed whether you use a hand or a machine torch, regardless, these are the charts to use). Here are the starting specs for 60 Amp cutting on 1/4" steel, and they are guaranteed to work:

Consumables, please verify that these part numbers are in your Hypertherm torch: Shield-120930, Retaining cap-120928, Nozzle-120931, Electrode-120926, Swirl Ring-120925

Arc voltage setting....the setting in the Hypertherm manual is a suggested starting point. The voltage is used as a reference voltage for controlling torch height, so start with this setting, then adjust your voltage until the correct torch to work distance is achieved, after you have all of the other parameters set. As the torch electrode wears, you will have to increase the voltage 5 to 10 volts to accommodate for the wear in order to maintain proper standoff.

Arc Voltage: 138 volts

Pierce height: 3/16" (this is critical, one pierce too close and you will damage the nozzle orifice, and cut quality will be affected in terms of cut edge angularity.)

Cut Height: 1/16" , this is the physical height that is adjusted by adjusting the arc voltage while the plasma is cutting. Higher voltage means higher hight, lower voltage means lower height. Adjust arc voltage until this height is achieved.

Pierce delay time: .25 seconds (this allows the arc to penetrate the plate fully before any x, y or z movement occurs, very critical)

Air pressure: 70 psi (set the air pressure with the amperage knob turned fully counterclockwise, this allows the air to flow so you get a dynamic, flowing setting)

Amperage: 60 Amps

Cut Speed: 86 inches per minute (the optimal speed produces the best combination of cut quality in terms of edge angularity and dross formation. If you use the maximum speed setting the cut edge will have more angularity.


If you can verify that all of the above are being set correctly, then we can move on to the height control settings. You have not provided much info about the height control.....so I may have to guess a bit on helping you get it set up correctly. There are a lot of parameters with the height control that affect every aspect of the cut, so if you want to make it work without oscilating up and down, and without damaging the torch consumables you will have to work with me.

Jim Colt

ITS A SIDEKICK table
plasma hyper 1000.
im try to cut at 40 ipm.
the arc is set to 140.
but jumps from 135 to 155.
its 1/4 steel.
the plasma is wired 3 phase.
they have sent a new touch cord that plugs into the wall, and plasma.
the cut chart that came with the plasma, can only be used at half the recommendations. and more wont pierce.

[ryderz]

like i have been saying if i put those numbers on the table, it wont cut thru. the arc voltage is to low 138, then the pierce delay needs to be atleast .50, im not sure what tourch height contrlo it is. the programming is wincnc. what works is u add 10 to the arc voltage, cut the ots to half, set the peirce delay for .60. then it will get thru, and make a cut.

now if u r asking me to set the table at those settings i will. then what nexts..?

[ryderz]

I put your setting in and it started it blow thru, then it stopped going thru and started blowing sparks all over. its moving to fast. i slowed it down to 40, and it cut thru, but really nasty. this is 1/4 steel the ots says 86ipm theres no way not even 60.