[Beezle]

Amateur maker of things here. Been looking at CNC machines for months and the 770 is very high on my list. I have a fair amount of manual machining experience, woodworking, mold making, electronics, etc. Materials are aluminum, wood, copper, brass, various plastics such as cast acrylic, urethanes, etc.

What is the popular tooling to use with a machine like the 770? I don't expect to care much about rapid tool changing. I always tend to use whatever seems to be the most rigid and otherwise reliable. Eg, I prefer end mill holders to collets on the small machines. Always had better luck with them.

The TTS stuff looks interesting.

Moving a machine of this size - I figure to buy a Harbor Fright 2 ton crane and one nice thing about the 770 is that knowing how to pick the thing up is actually dealt with by Tormach by providing the rig. I have never seen a company selling heavy machines to the general public actually address that before. Like, say, Grizzly. Tormach generally appears to provide excellent support.

Software - SprutCAM? I know the concepts well enough, but specifically say I wanted to design a part that is 10x3x0.75", 2D+rounded edges or some such, lots of curves that are not circular. Is that THE software? Or worry about that later? I am taking a CNC class or three that actually uses Tormach machines soon, but any recommendations from people using these machines appreciated. Most everything I make is one of a kind. Unless the project needs more than one of a part.

I was thinking for a long time that I would just buy the cheapest machine I could find - say, the smaller Little Machine Shop machine, and use that to learn. But I'd much rather dive right into a machine that will still be useful once I know what I am doing. I tend to learn fairly fast and will be skipping the why-isn't-this-machine-perfect phase and trying to make real parts on day, oh, two or so.

I figure I would get the machine, stand, coolant whatzit, maybe a new vise (I have several), R8 tooling and any other machine specific work holding. I already have lots of end mills, measuring stuff, etc.

Thanks for any advice.

Ed

[davidperry3]

One of the main reasons I bought the Tormach was the software package. The Alibre and SprutCam combo is unbeatable price wise (by several thousand dollers). I had prievous experience with Pro-E and Autocad both of which were very expensive and absolute misery to use. Alibre has been very easy to get results with. SprutCam is the only cam I have ever used so I can't compair. I will say that Sprut was very challenging for me to get going. But the hours and hours I have spent on the phone with Tormach getting advice on runnung Sprut (and the machine) have been a cost savings on their own.
With the exception of the duality lathe, probe and tool setter I have had no regrets buying tooling from Tormach and buy as much as I can. I bought the 1100 with stand, lathe and 4th axis as well as some tooling. My initial outlay was around 20K and I have been very happy.
With regard to the 770 vs the 1100... everybody wants more room sooner or later, with the price so close the 1100 gets you a bridgport sized mill.

[frankee]

Hi,

With regards to the tooling, I purchased the tooling kit from Tormach which came with some TTS mill holders etc. and I think it was well worth the investment. I've gone back to buy some more since I purchased my machine a few years ago.

Frank

[Magnum164]

As far as a crane. I bought a 2 ton lift and ended up not being able to get the legs around the stand to lift the machine on to it. The best thing I found to use was this cart:

1/4 Ton Capacity Hydraulic Lift Table

If you buy the deluxe base it will pretty much raise the pieces up high enough you can simply push them off onto the stand.

As far as software I went with Rhino/Alibre and SprutCAM and also have BobCad. I use Rhino for most organic modeling and Alibre for hard surfaces. I haven;t used Bobcad as much as I thought.. I use ProE/NX6/Catia and others at work and Alibre is just as powerful for a lot less.

[Beezle]

Thanks for all of the replies.

Magnum - yeah, wow, that's obvious if you look at the Harbor Freight cranes.

The crane you see in the Tormach 770 uncrate slideshow has wide legs and is made by Bluebird. I don't see that you can buy those but perhaps one could be rented locally.

The table makes sense, but I'm having a time envisioning pushing something really heavy onto that, then onto a stand that isn't a flat surface.

[twocik]

Hands down Tormach offers the best support !! When there's a problem it's fixed fast. They follow up with a phone call just to make sure everything is ok and yes deal with our annoying beginner questions with a smile... every time. I can't explain in words how impressed I'm with the company, truly 5 stars. Yes you can find other tooling to fit the machine, but I'd rather support the company and have the 100% backing.

The Harbor Fright 2 ton crane works great, just make sure you tighten everything down and look over every angle before you pick up and drop. I wish I could find something to lift the stand and allow me to put the crane underneath at the same time. It's a lot of fun building the egyptian pyramids, but a substitute for a forklift would be great..


"Magnum"

Have you thought about replacing the casters with something a little smaller ?




I agree with david, yes you'll eventually find things that you'll need more room for. I would love an extra 8" on my X and 5" on my Y. As for software, I'm currently looking at both Alibre and SprutCam, but I also need a probe... I'm flipping a coin here soon. For 2.5D work I use a program called CamBam, a lot of bang for your buck. Also features engraving, 3D milling and a bunch of other stuff. Not to mention it's very affordable and easy to learn fast.



My experience with the cheaper machines has been great for learning and yes you will hit that point where you want more. Here's what you have to ask yourself, do you want a machine that you will constantly need to make or replace parts for or a machine that cuts all day with very little problems.... Not saying things don't break, but with the little machines in my experience aren't very reliable.

[Beezle]

So are you saying one could use the HF crane by raising the stand using blocks of some sort, set the mill on the stand and attach it, then raise the mill and stand, remove the blocks, then lower the whole thing?

Something like that? With the stand raised at its feet, will the HF crane's legs fit under it?

Er wait, the specs say the Tormach stand is 26" wide and the HF 2 ton crane's legs appear to be 36" apart. Sounds to me like that crane would work for the 770.

So far as small machines go, I've loved mine. I don't make particularly large parts out of metal anyway. They do need tweaking. My oldest small mill has a lead screw in the Z axis, DRO, ceiling mounted counter weight for the head and about 250 pounds of large angle plates that make it very stiff. I have bored holes into 2" 6061 using 3/4" end mills. Just to see if I could do it.

I want CNC and I want a bigger machine for the envelope. But even the 1100 doesn't have the Y axis that a gantry crane router CNC could. Shame those can't really do metal work. Same money could provide a work envelope bigger than 24" square.

Thanks for the help.

[twocik]

"So are you saying one could use the HF crane by raising the stand using blocks of some sort, set the mill on the stand and attach it, then raise the mill and stand, remove the blocks, then lower the whole thing?"



Yes









"Something like that? With the stand raised at its feet, will the HF crane's legs fit under it?"


Yes but I believe I had to add one more layer of bricks.





"So far as small machines go, I've loved mine. I don't make particularly large parts out of metal anyway. They do need tweaking. My oldest small mill has a lead screw in the Z axis, DRO, ceiling mounted counter weight for the head and about 250 pounds of large angle plates that make it very stiff. I have bored holes into 2" 6061 using 3/4" end mills. Just to see if I could do it. "


Oh don't get me wrong, I too have done things like this, but it takes forever.... Great machines to learn on, but not for a business. We're talking 5 ipm max.




"I want CNC and I want a bigger machine for the envelope. But even the 1100 doesn't have the Y axis that a gantry crane router CNC could. Shame those can't really do metal work. Same money could provide a work envelope bigger than 24" square."


I'm not sure how a router holds up against a 1100 mill, not even sure you can cut heavy with a router. Maybe you can, but it does depend on what you want to cut.

[Magnum164]

"Magnum"

Have you thought about replacing the casters with something a little smaller ?

Any smaller and they would not support the weight. The casters are the weak link on that cart, but for the price can't beat it. I actually plan on putting larger casters on it so that it will be even with the bed of my lathe now.

[Magnum164]

The table makes sense, but I'm having a time envisioning pushing something really heavy onto that, then onto a stand that isn't a flat surface.

Let me rephrase that...

You move the 770 in three pieces... Don't try and move in two pieces, trust me it won;t work. If you are moving into a house you can't maneuver the pieces through the doors or hallways. One of the reasons the crane would not work for me. I had a small garage entry door.

First you move the base and slide it onto the stand. By sliding I mean two people lifting up the base just enough the clear the mounts and sitting it down. I have a bad back and it was easy for me and my dad. We just carefully slide it over and lifted when needed to keep from banging up the surfaces.


Second.. The vertical can lay directly on the cart and you roll it into position. it is at the right height to connect up with almost no lifting and you can put the pin in it. It simply swings into position.. Piece of cake!

Third.. I believe for this piece we move the piece in the basement on the cart. Once in place I did use the hoist to lift it up and swing into place and bolt to the vertical. Or I think we may have actually lifted it and set it on the bed. It's not too heavy for two people.

[Magnum164]

"So are you saying one could use the HF crane by raising the stand using blocks of some sort, set the mill on the stand and attach it, then raise the mill and stand, remove the blocks, then lower the whole thing?"



Yes









"Something like that? With the stand raised at its feet, will the HF crane's legs fit under it?"


Yes but I believe I had to add one more layer of bricks.





"So far as small machines go, I've loved mine. I don't make particularly large parts out of metal anyway. They do need tweaking. My oldest small mill has a lead screw in the Z axis, DRO, ceiling mounted counter weight for the head and about 250 pounds of large angle plates that make it very stiff. I have bored holes into 2" 6061 using 3/4" end mills. Just to see if I could do it. "


Oh don't get me wrong, I too have done things like this, but it takes forever.... Great machines to learn on, but not for a business. We're talking 5 ipm max.




"I want CNC and I want a bigger machine for the envelope. But even the 1100 doesn't have the Y axis that a gantry crane router CNC could. Shame those can't really do metal work. Same money could provide a work envelope bigger than 24" square."


I'm not sure how a router holds up against a 1100 mill, not even sure you can cut heavy with a router. Maybe you can, but it does depend on what you want to cut.

Be careful thinking about going this route in a house. Looks like you may have more room. My machine sits under a overhead air vent so I only have 4 inches of clearance from the machine up. Plus my basement ceiling is not much higher so I did not have the clearance to raise anything.

Tormach has envelope dimensions on their site for the 770, might be good to check overall height on your location to make sure you have the overhead room.

[Beezle]

Be careful thinking about going this route in a house. Looks like you may have more room. My machine sits under a overhead air vent so I only have 4 inches of clearance from the machine up. Plus my basement ceiling is not much higher so I did not have the clearance to raise anything.

Tormach has envelope dimensions on their site for the 770, might be good to check overall height on your location to make sure you have the overhead room.

My shop is 2/3 of a 3 car garage. Nine foot ceilings, post-tension concrete floor.

[MichaelHenry]

So are you saying one could use the HF crane by raising the stand using blocks of some sort, set the mill on the stand and attach it, then raise the mill and stand, remove the blocks, then lower the whole thing?

Something like that? With the stand raised at its feet, will the HF crane's legs fit under it?

You might be interested in how a PCNC-1100 was moved into the basement of our townhome. The process is described here with a bunch of photos:

Tormach PCNC 1100 CNC Mill

Mike

[Beezle]

Let me rephrase that...

You move the 770 in three pieces... Don't try and move in two pieces, trust me it won;t work. If you are moving into a house you can't maneuver the pieces through the doors or hallways. One of the reasons the crane would not work for me. I had a small garage entry door.

First you move the base and slide it onto the stand. By sliding I mean two people lifting up the base just enough the clear the mounts and sitting it down. I have a bad back and it was easy for me and my dad. We just carefully slide it over and lifted when needed to keep from banging up the surfaces.


Second.. The vertical can lay directly on the cart and you roll it into position. it is at the right height to connect up with almost no lifting and you can put the pin in it. It simply swings into position.. Piece of cake!

Third.. I believe for this piece we move the piece in the basement on the cart. Once in place I did use the hoist to lift it up and swing into place and bolt to the vertical. Or I think we may have actually lifted it and set it on the bed. It's not too heavy for two people.

Ah, that helps. I am fortunate in that it's a straight shot into a garage door to where I will be putting the machine.

That moving kit is interesting. And so is that table. I could see getting one just to have it.

[Beezle]

You might be interested in how a PCNC-1100 was moved into the basement of our townhome. The process is described here with a bunch of photos:

Tormach PCNC 1100 CNC Mill

Mike

Thanks for doing that. Amazing how much help one gets around here.

[Magnum164]

That moving kit is interesting. And so is that table. I could see getting one just to have it.

I used the table to lift my lathe up on it's stands as well. Didn't have to disassemble it to far. It has definitely paid for itself. Now it stores my vise and rotary when not on the machine.

[Scott_M]

And another moving to a basement thread.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormac...tml#post277589

Scott

[Magnum164]

My shop is 2/3 of a 3 car garage. Nine foot ceilings, post-tension concrete floor.

My basement is actually a converted 2 car garage that makes a full basement. But the dork that built the house made the ceiling less than 8ft... I think he forgot to figure in the width (or height) of the floor joists.. Oh well..

My original plans was to convert a 20x24 detached garage with 12ft ceilings. But the city said if I decided to turn my hobby into a business, I could not use the detached garage.. But that is fine, walking 50ft in the cold during the winter to that garage is a pain.

[Beezle]

No such thing as too much shop space. Or height. Only problem worse is having time.

This forum is making me dizzy. Just randomly reading about people buying machines, building machines, etc. Some are so dramatic. Just read one where a machine was ordered, months and months of anticipation getting the rest of it, then nothing. Then a year later, never used the machine, it is now for sale.

Oh the humanity!

I definitely cannot see going the build-your-own route. I just don't have the bandwidth to take that on. More "here's a complex part and how I made it" would really be nice. Is there some of that somewhere in this giant forum?

Seems like lots of excitement leading up to a running machine, then nothing more. Even the manufacturers like Tormach could really do to show more of what's possible. That sucks in people like myself that aren't professionals and don't really know what a machine of this class can produce.

It's Monday. I tend to babble on Mondays.

[Magnum164]

Seems like lots of excitement leading up to a running machine, then nothing more. Even the manufacturers like Tormach could really do to show more of what's possible. That sucks in people like myself that aren't professionals and don't really know what a machine of this class can produce.

You said you had a fair amount of manual machining experience, so I assumed you were somewhat in the field and familiar with what the machines can produce.

From being on the forums a bit, I am pretty sure the more experienced machinists will reply to you asking what exactly do you want to do?

I found lots of info on what the machines can do, but I agree it is not organized at all. Would be nice to start a show off thread but I don't have anything worth showing - yet.