[Alan Ing]

Hi All,

Would appreciate some advice in regards to selecting the appropriate Plasma Cutter for our High School Robotics program. Currently I am looking at the Hypertherm Powermax 45 or 65 for use in a Precision Plasma CNC Table setup using the C&CNC Bladerunner controls.

Our school has been competing in the FIRST Robotics competion for 10+ years and we basically make these 150 lbs machines that move around and play whatever new game they make up each year. Most of the parts we make are machined from aluminum plate. Primarily 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". Occasionally we make parts from 1/16" and 3/8" plate. Most of our work is done on either a manual bridgeport size milling machine or our 3 axis Tormach cnc. Last year a few of our parts were made on a Waterjet by a former student which worked out fairly well. Since we cannot afford a Waterjet machine, we were thinking that maybe we could do with a relatively low cost cnc plasma table instead. We realize that we cannot expect the same accuracy that we are used to, but if we design our parts for looser tolerances, perhaps a plasma table might be just what we need.

With that I would appreciate your recommendations as to which Plasma unit to purchase, which torch, and what consumables to buy keeping in mind that we are trying to get the highest tolerance cuts we can while keeping costs down to something we can afford. As an example, we know that the 45 is lower in cost, but does the 65 have significant advantages for cutting aluminum that we should consider it? We do have an older Miller Spectrum 375 we could borrow from the autoshop, but somehow I have a feeling we would be better off buying a new Hypertherm unit. By the way, we have never used a Plasma Cutter before.

We are also considering buying the water table for the Precision Plasma table in the hopes that it will help make better cuts and allow us to run the plasma table inside our shop.

Sorry I did as much searching in the forums as I could but have a short time table to make the purchases as our competition starts on January 8th so any help is appreciated.

Best Regards,
Alan

[jimcolt]

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. The Precision plasma machine with the C and CNC Bladerunner package are a popular choice for entry level cnc cutting machines. I would definitely recommend using a water table for this machine, it will makecontrolling the fumes and smoke much easier.
Either the Powermax45 or the Powermax65 would work for your application, although I would lean towards the 65 as you have an occasional need to do some 3/8" work....which is near the rated limit on aluminum for the 45. The 65 is also the latest technology in plasma systems, and will provide longer consumable life, as well as having higher duty cycle ratings. Make sure you aske your local dealer for the eductational discount!

Make sure the machine is equipped with a full function torch height control system, critical for best tolerances with any plasma.

Attached is a picture of a recent 3/16" aluminum job that I did with my Powermax45 on a cnc machine. I quoted prices per part, and competed against water jets and laser. I was able to produce parts much faster than the other processes, at a much lower cost, and within tolerance!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

[Alan Ing]

Hi Jim,

Thank you for the advice. We will mostly be using this on 1/8" to 1/4" thick aluminum plate. Are the PowerMax 45 and 65 about equal in this range of thickness on aluminum or is there an advantage with the 65? Is the machine torch the way to go and if so, is there any difference other than the obvious for the shorter version of the machine torch for the 65?

In regards to the educational discount. Does every certified Hypertherm Dealer offer it? Is it a standard discount, or does it vary by dealer. It seems that the best time to buy anything from our local Airgas/gaspro dealer is during the annual tent sale even if we are buying it for the school. I would hope that schools would get a decent discount any time of year.

Final question, will the water backsplash from a water table damage the torch?

Best Regards,
Alan

[jimcolt]

Alan,

The 45 is 45 amps and the 65 is 65 amps, so the 65 will cut faster on thicker materials. To get the best cut quality on thinner materials, say 1/4" and below they would both be using the same processes and power levels and cut at the same speed. There are 45 amp consumables for the 65 that emulate the 45 amp process. The machine torch is the best way to cut on a machine, the hand torch is ergonomically designed to fit in a hand. Many people buy both torches as they quick connect (no tools, 5 second changeover) to the power supply.

The terms of the educational discounts are determined by the distributors. Hypertherm has certain criteria that has to be met to qualify. The distributor makes the final decisions on eductaional discounts as many have theri own programs....you will have to ask the dealer about this. Look on the Hypertherm | Plasma Cutters | Plasma Cutting Equipment | Metal Cutting Equipment website as well under our education/training tab....there are some programs there for training facilities.

Water splash on a torch will not normally affect it. Cutting submerged could have a long term effect, and is not recommended with our Powermax line of torches.

Jim Colt

Hi Jim,

Thank you for the advice. We will mostly be using this on 1/8" to 1/4" thick aluminum plate. Are the PowerMax 45 and 65 about equal in this range of thickness on aluminum or is there an advantage with the 65? Is the machine torch the way to go and if so, is there any difference other than the obvious for the shorter version of the machine torch for the 65?

In regards to the educational discount. Does every certified Hypertherm Dealer offer it? Is it a standard discount, or does it vary by dealer. It seems that the best time to buy anything from our local Airgas/gaspro dealer is during the annual tent sale even if we are buying it for the school. I would hope that schools would get a decent discount any time of year.

Final question, will the water backsplash from a water table damage the torch?

Best Regards,
Alan

[Alan Ing]

Hi Jim,

Again, thanks for the advice!

Our shop has a single phase 208V circuit protected by a 50 amp circuit breaker that we use for welding. We also have several three phase 208V circuits which are probably 20 Amp.

I was leaning towards the 65 over the 45, but it appears to me that our circuits may not be adequate for the 65. The manual for the 65 says that the Input current at 9.0 kw ouput at 208V single phase is 52 Amps and can hit 75 Amps during arc stretch. It also mentions that we should install an 80 Amp slow-blow fuse. Sounds like we won't be able to run this set up. What do you think?

For the 45, at 208V single phase, the rated output is 45 Amps, Input current at 6kw 33Amps and arc stretch at 54.5 Amps. Recommended slow-blow fuse size is 50 Amps. If our breaker is rated at 50 amps, do we still need a slow blow fuse?

if the 45 is the way to go, what would you recommend as far as model numbers and accessories. Again, we are using a Precision Plasma LLC table with water table, C and CNC AIO Dragon with DTHC and will mainly be cutting 1/8" - 1/4" aluminum as precisely as we can.

I was thinking about the 088022 which comes with the T45m machine torch. Do we need to buy the 128650 Remote Pendant and the CNC spade plug? If so which one, the 228350 (for divided arc voltage) or the 23206 (for non divided arc voltage usage). What consumable set should I buy? I don't recall seeing a finecut set.

Sorry for all the questions. I have a limited time to get this set up going before our robotics competition starts in January.

Best Regards,

Alan

[jimcolt]

Alan,

You can run the 65 on your circuit. The only time you will run into an issue is when you are cutting the maximum thickness for relatively long cuts. For most normal cutting at 65 amps output, the current draw will be less than 50 Amps. The unit only draws as much power as is needed by the length of the arc....so cutting thin materials at 65 amps....may only draw 30 or 40 amps at the breaker, as the material gets thicker, the arc length gets longer (amps x volts = killowatts) the unit will draw more power. It is always better to plan for the extremes with a plasma cutter...always easier to upgrade the circuit!

I don't use a slow blow breaker in my shop, I am running a Powermax45 on 208 volts on a 50 Amp circuit. I cut a lot of 1/2" and have never tripped the breaker.

For the thickness range....the 45 will do just as well as the 65. Only consider the 65 if you have some heavier cutting in your future! Get the machine torch, the machine interface cable. You don't need the pendant.....it is to manually fire a machine torch on non-cnc applications such as a track burner or a manual pipe cutoff machine.

For consumables for the 45....there are no FineCut consumables....the standard 45 amp consumables will cover the whole thickness range very well. Make sure you use the machine shield (220673) as opposed to the hand torch shield (I don't have the part number!). If you order the system with the machine torch you will get a small starter kit of machine consumables.

For the 65, there are FineCut consumables...use them only for materials 1/8" and thinner, there are 45 Amp and 65 Amp consumables.....depending on the thicknesses you plan to cut.

Jim Colt

Hi Jim,

Again, thanks for the advice!

Our shop has a single phase 208V circuit protected by a 50 amp circuit breaker that we use for welding. We also have several three phase 208V circuits which are probably 20 Amp.

I was leaning towards the 65 over the 45, but it appears to me that our circuits may not be adequate for the 65. The manual for the 65 says that the Input current at 9.0 kw ouput at 208V single phase is 52 Amps and can hit 75 Amps during arc stretch. It also mentions that we should install an 80 Amp slow-blow fuse. Sounds like we won't be able to run this set up. What do you think?

For the 45, at 208V single phase, the rated output is 45 Amps, Input current at 6kw 33Amps and arc stretch at 54.5 Amps. Recommended slow-blow fuse size is 50 Amps. If our breaker is rated at 50 amps, do we still need a slow blow fuse?

if the 45 is the way to go, what would you recommend as far as model numbers and accessories. Again, we are using a Precision Plasma LLC table with water table, C and CNC AIO Dragon with DTHC and will mainly be cutting 1/8" - 1/4" aluminum as precisely as we can.

I was thinking about the 088022 which comes with the T45m machine torch. Do we need to buy the 128650 Remote Pendant and the CNC spade plug? If so which one, the 228350 (for divided arc voltage) or the 23206 (for non divided arc voltage usage). What consumable set should I buy? I don't recall seeing a finecut set.

Sorry for all the questions. I have a limited time to get this set up going before our robotics competition starts in January.

Best Regards,

Alan

[A_hobbyguy]

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. The Precision plasma machine with the C and CNC Bladerunner package are a popular choice for entry level cnc cutting machines. I would definitely recommend using a water table for this machine, it will makecontrolling the fumes and smoke much easier.
Either the Powermax45 or the Powermax65 would work for your application, although I would lean towards the 65 as you have an occasional need to do some 3/8" work....which is near the rated limit on aluminum for the 45. The 65 is also the latest technology in plasma systems, and will provide longer consumable life, as well as having higher duty cycle ratings. Make sure you aske your local dealer for the eductational discount!

Make sure the machine is equipped with a full function torch height control system, critical for best tolerances with any plasma.

Attached is a picture of a recent 3/16" aluminum job that I did with my Powermax45 on a cnc machine. I quoted prices per part, and competed against water jets and laser. I was able to produce parts much faster than the other processes, at a much lower cost, and within tolerance!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

I know it's an ancient thread, but if you're still around... was this air/air or nitrogen/nitrogen?