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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > Just got my updated super Pid controller
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    686

    Just got my updated super Pid controller

    Just got my Super PID today
    It took two weeks but it arrived today. Its the upgraded one with the larger Triac so it can control larger routers.

    My goal is to go totaly automatic with Mach3 so I took a spare G540 and power supply and decided to do a test hookup.

    I have a cheap $79 Dewalt trim router. This router has no electronics at all and runs normaly at about 28000 RPMS. It has a side mount so I thought it would be a cheap and quick replacement for my Festool MFK 700.

    It took a while to get the sensor connected to the router. It was easyer to do it from the back end of the router as there was not room on the front.

    I used a relay to provide Run control from the G540 to the Spuer PID. This allows the SuperPID to change display modes depending if its running or not.

    Next I wanted to get Mach 3 to read the Tach out from the Super PID. This presented a problem cuse the inputs on the G540 are pulled high and the tach output on the SuperPID could not pull it low enough to register. I had to make a slight mod to the SuperPID to bypass a resiister but git it working. Now Mach3 rgisters the actual RPM that the router is running.

    NExt was the VFD control of the router. This was pretty easy since the G540 lets you provide both the Ref GND and + volts that the PWM ckt uses. I just took the three leads from the Gf40 and plugged them into the three leads to replace the pot and we were rolling. I spend more time confiuring MAch 3. The main thing I did was turn on closed loop control of the spindle. This gave me perfect control over tyhe router.

    Well how does it work?

    I now have total control over the router. On and off and speed change of 5000 to 28000 RPM.

    I cut my first plastic today and it was great. I even did some aluminum. No heat and very little noise. The little router has a lot of power at the low end and I did not get any over heeating issues.

    One thing did come to light though. The Dewalt D26670 sounded good out of the box and the collet had very little runout but after about 40 minutes of testing the bearings developed some play. I should have expected it The last 5 routers I have purchased from that company have had the same kind of issues. But what can you expect for $79.

    The speed controller and interface works good. After some more testing I will try other routers. I need to build some new mounts for my build anyway.

    What I would like to do is to put a bypass on the Festool electronics so I could use that tool. But It does not seem right tearing inot a $400 router.

    Both theese shots are done with Mach3 set to closed loop spindle control.





  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621
    You should post what you bypassed in the SuperPID and how you wired it for others to follow.

    Looks nice.

    Adam,

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by adam_m View Post
    You should post what you bypassed in the SuperPID and how you wired it for others to follow.

    Looks nice.

    Adam,
    It's posted in the long Super-PID thread, and should make it's way into the manual at some point. All the info the early users are providing is getting compiled into a reference manual.

    MSimpson,

    In the second video, what is that material? It looks like it's burning??
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    624
    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    MSimpson,

    In the second video, what is that material? It looks like it's burning??
    It looks like white faced hard board to me Gerry.? . . . That would give the apperance of burning.! (Plus the furing round the edge's)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    686
    Yes the second vid is on Faced hardboard at 20000 RPM. What is cool is the cut-2D lets you set up your tools RPM and I no longer have to manualy set my spindle speed. Which I forgot to do most of the time.

    The first vid is at 5000 RPM.


    The only down side is MACH3. When I first start it up and go to the MDI screen if I turn on the spindle with the RPM set to 0 it runs away at max RPM until I hit thr reset. Then ever thing works good. Thats def a MAch3 issue.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by msimpson99 View Post


    The only down side is MACH3. When I first start it up and go to the MDI screen if I turn on the spindle with the RPM set to 0 it runs away at max RPM until I hit thr reset. Then ever thing works good. Thats def a MAch3 issue.
    Do you have Mach3 turning it on and off with the run input on the super pid?

    Try putting S5000 in your initialization string in General Config.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    Hi msimpson99! I just saw this thread. Thanks for purchasing a SuperPID and also thank you for being so thorough posting your installation and wiring details, I'm sure that will be of help to other SuperPID users.

    I'm also available to offer SuperPID support via PMs, or in the main support thread; http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...ontroller.html
    although it looks like you are very skilled at installing electronics already.

    I would like to ask about the way you connected the "TACH" output of the SuperPID to your G540 input. There is a compatibility issue here as (I believed) the G540 inputs are not compatiable with the logic-level outputs as used by the Super-PID.

    Did you replace resistor RI2 on the SuperPID PCB with a different value (a lower resistance) or a wire?

    I'm also interested in any info you have on using Mach3 in "closed loop" mode, as I had thought this may conflict with the SuperPID closed loop PID system. Generally it's a no-no to have two closed loop systems trying to control the same motor!

    However there is another SuperPID + G540 user in the other thread who has used the Mach3 "auto spindle calibration" feature to good effect on his router.

    As I don't use Mach3 I really appreciate any info you can provide on how you set up your Mach3 settings etc. The SuperPID is a very new product and there will be other new users too that will appreciate any details you can provide on your setup.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by msimpson99 View Post

    The only down side is MACH3. When I first start it up and go to the MDI screen if I turn on the spindle with the RPM set to 0 it runs away at max RPM until I hit the reset. Then ever thing works good. Thats def a MAch3 issue.
    I think this may be a configuration issue. Just got my Super-PID wired for Mach3 speed control last night, and I didn't see this.

    I'll do some testing later, to see if I can confirm it though.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    686
    @ ger21
    I am using the run option to control with MAch. I used a relay to provide the proper level. I also am using the relay to switch on my vacume system so it was a no brainer on that end.

    I did set the S register to 5000 in the initilation string and this fixed the problem with MAch freaking out with a zero value.

    @RomanLini
    I left the old resister in place and used a 47K in parallel with the old.

    Mach3 has enough control to tweak so you dont get any hunting. I have enough delay that mach3 is just using the feedback to get the speed set then once its naild it settls down. SPID does all the instantainious work. Those veriations are too fast for MAch3 to catch with my settings.

    I did use MAch3 auto tune but it was kind of lost in the low rpms. I just could not get the manual (non closed loop) to work very well. Probably some of my settings.


    I have not had a lot of time to play woth the router much as this was a new router mount and I am just now adding mounts for dust collection.

    I am now ready to move to my second router a larger Dewalt. I have already removed the electronics and switch from the router. PRoblem is I need a new sensor set. I dont want to remove the sensor from the last one.

    Any change you would be willing to give some specs for us engineers so we can wire our own sensors. Would save me some time frime having to go thorugh a test phase to come up with my own IR led and Photo Transistor.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails _MG_8318.jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    Thanks for the info msimpson99, that is very helpful.

    I beleive the resistor you used in parallel with the RI2 resistor is a 4.7k (4700 ohms) based on it's colours and my calculations.

    Thanks for the info on the Mach3 setup!

    Re the sensor type, it is from Mouser and the part number is in the main SuperPID thread as someone else requested the sensor details. Wiring the sensor is shown in the main diagram in the SuperPID instruction PDF. The SuperPID was deliberatly designed to be very tolerant of sensor types, anything that produces a pretty clean pulse about 0v-5v and exactly one pulse per shaft rotation will work fine. I have done tests using a magnetic hall sensor so that is another possible sensor type.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Roman PM'd me the number, I don't think it's in the thread.

    828 - OPB609RA
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    686
    Yep it was a 4.7K.

    What I did is hook up a scope and tried various resistor when I saw a good 0-5v pulse transitions I new I had a winner.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2392
    Thanks! I'm still waiting on some info from Mariss regarding connecting these 2 things but in the meantime it looks like you got it sorted!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    686
    Just ordered 10 sensors wo I can start converting other routers

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