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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > Mastercam > Truth in Mastercam advertising?
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigJW View Post
    There sea to be a real difference of opinion between the end users of Mastercam and the people who sell books and training. I wonder why that could be???

    Do you have to buy the full version of Mastercam at full price and pay maintenance for every seat of every person who works on these training books and DVD/websites?

    John

    John
    I believe anyone producing quality training should get free seats of Mastercam. While I understand your points and think they are legitimate points I don't think giving a hard time to someone who creates Mastercam training furthers your cause. Your issues seem to be with CNC Software and with your Canadian dealer which I guess must be In House Solutions? I have done business with In House Solutions in the past and was ripped-off on shipping rates. They quote one price for shipping to the states and charge another.

  2. #22
    Do you have to buy the full version of Mastercam at full price and pay maintenance for every seat of every person who works on these training books and DVD/websites?
    I bought mastercam in the mid 90s and have been a maintenance paying customer since.

    Any opinions I express are my own.

    I provide training in CNC Programming and Manufacturing Engineering at the College level and provide affordable Online training.

    I use SolidWorks and Mastercam as the CAD/CAM technologies because those are the ones that I know best.

    There are plenty of good software technologies out there, one of the most important things to consider when purchasing "high end" software is the availability of training.

    In my opinion

    Mastercam and SolidWorks Training online

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjacoby View Post
    I don't think giving a hard time to someone who creates Mastercam training furthers your cause. Your issues seem to be with CNC Software and with your Canadian dealer which I guess must be In House Solutions?
    Why should people writing the training books get a free seat, they are profiting from their teaching. Their overhead barely cracks a single digit percentage when compared to those of us THAT ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT WE USE AND DO NOT BUY HACKED SOFTWARE OR GET IT FOR "EDUCATIONAL PRICING" One of the MCrap cheerleaders on this forum let it slip his was an educational version(and selling training that is:bs. So why would they complain when you are using $20,000 worth of software for free and selling training materials for a profit.

    With Solidcam ALL THEIR TRAINING MATERIALS are downloaded from their site for FREE and you can actually use what is written and get positive results.

  4. #24
    Some of you guys seem to have had a bad experience with Mastercam, and prefer other software technologies.
    Excuse me for asking a dumb question, but why do you hang out in a Mastercam forum?

    Mastercam and SolidWorks Training Online

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxsquirrel View Post
    Why should people writing the training books get a free seat, they are profiting from their teaching. Their overhead barely cracks a single digit percentage when compared to those of us THAT ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT WE USE AND DO NOT BUY HACKED SOFTWARE OR GET IT FOR "EDUCATIONAL PRICING" One of the MCrap cheerleaders on this forum let it slip his was an educational version(and selling training that is:bs. So why would they complain when you are using $20,000 worth of software for free and selling training materials for a profit.

    With Solidcam ALL THEIR TRAINING MATERIALS are downloaded from their site for FREE and you can actually use what is written and get positive results.
    They should get a free seat because it provides an alternative to overpriced Mastercam dealer training. Sometimes a Mastercam dealer doesn't offer advanced training and I'm tried of being ripped off by In House Solutions for lousy books and ridiculous shipping prices. As far as Solidcam goes it is not exactly easy to find a job programming with Solidcam. Hopefully many shops will have enough of CNC Softwares arrogance and poorly designed software and change to something like Solidcam. In the mean time it sure would be nice to have as many independent authors and video producers of Mastercam training as possible so that Mastercam users are not stuck with CNC Software and In House Solutions as their only choice for training. It is pretty easy to see that Solidcam's user manuals are much better written than the crap manuals that CNC Software provides for Mastercam.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Goodwin View Post
    Some of you guys seem to have had a bad experience with Mastercam, and prefer other software technologies.
    Excuse me for asking a dumb question, but why do you hang out in a Mastercam forum?

    Mastercam and SolidWorks Training Online
    Mastercam owns the market so if you want employment options it makes sense to know Mastercam even if you don't like using it. A better question might be how long is it going to take for more shops to change to the better options that are now available?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Goodwin View Post
    Some of you guys seem to have had a bad experience with Mastercam, and prefer other software technologies.
    Excuse me for asking a dumb question, but why do you hang out in a Mastercam forum?

    Mastercam and SolidWorks Training Online
    So you have never gone to a website to find information about product or service you were going to buy? People who are looking to purchase should be able to find information about the product that a dealer would not share with them.

    It is very common to find people who are dissatisfied with a product. But it takes a special company with a very special type of (or lack of)customer service to get customers to really really hate that company.

    It only helps to better the whole industry if customer experiences are shared on a public forum.

    Like I have said before you really have to read between the lines on these forums. There are the dealers and wares sellers that praise Mastercam and then there are the end users that are not happy.


    John

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjacoby View Post
    They should get a free seat because it provides an alternative to overpriced Mastercam dealer training. Sometimes a Mastercam dealer doesn't offer advanced training and I'm tried of being ripped off by In House Solutions for lousy books and ridiculous shipping prices. As far as Solidcam goes it is not exactly easy to find a job programming with Solidcam. Hopefully many shops will have enough of CNC Softwares arrogance and poorly designed software and change to something like Solidcam. In the mean time it sure would be nice to have as many independent authors and video producers of Mastercam training as possible so that Mastercam users are not stuck with CNC Software and In House Solutions as their only choice for training. It is pretty easy to see that Solidcam's user manuals are much better written than the crap manuals that CNC Software provides for Mastercam.
    I understand your point but they are not providing the training for free, if the training is free then of course they should get a free seat.

    MC's people are masters at how to monetize a product, I am sure they have the resources to document and test software, but are they willing to do it and do they want to do it?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigJW View Post
    There are the dealers and wares sellers that praise Mastercam and then there are the end users that are not happy.


    John

    I guess it is also as important to note that for each one of the (very few) guys that are unhappy with mastercam here, there are hundreds and even thousands of absolutely stoked guys using it every day that just don't give a rats a$$ about saying so on a website.
    Tim

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyL7 View Post
    I guess it is also as important to note that for each one of the (very few) guys that are unhappy with mastercam here, there are hundreds and even thousands of absolutely stoked guys using it every day that just don't give a rats a$$ about saying so on a website.
    Have you read this? This does not read as "absolutely stoked" to me.


    Are the Graphics Gonna be improved in X5? - eMastercam.com

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjacoby View Post
    Have you read this? This does not read as "absolutely stoked" to me.


    Are the Graphics Gonna be improved in X5? - eMastercam.com
    That could be taken both ways, MC does not need "slick graphics" because it is a standalone product with a primary mission of toolpaths only, if they are refering to the Solids modeling thats not even worth commenting. The only issue with graphics in the standalone version that would need reworked is the chain selection and a better display showing the tool travel paths when the tool is not engaging the work piece. SolidCam has done it right with chaining because each chain has a very solid and visible arrow with the addition of a numeral (when you click on something it actually highlights every time). If you need to reverse one of several its very easy to locate. I have not used the SW version of MC so I cannot comment on that.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxsquirrel View Post
    That could be taken both ways, MC does not need "slick graphics" because it is a standalone product with a primary mission of toolpaths only, if they are refering to the Solids modeling thats not even worth commenting. The only issue with graphics in the standalone version that would need reworked is the chain selection and a better display showing the tool travel paths when the tool is not engaging the work piece. SolidCam has done it right with chaining because each chain has a very solid and visible arrow with the addition of a numeral (when you click on something it actually highlights every time). If you need to reverse one of several its very easy to locate. I have not used the SW version of MC so I cannot comment on that.
    Mastercam Verify is many years behind other cam companies who use the exact same verify engine from Machineworks. The graphics display in Mastercam is the worst of any cam product on the market.

  13. #33
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    I did not think the graphics for verify are bad or need updated, it shows the bad spots. It did miss a move between between toolpaths, while 4" deep it did not notice the tool was not being retracted to clearance as it moved to another area. Lost time, broken tooling, and several large pieces of material had to be scraped, not to mention this BS happened at around the 23 hour mark with a 30 some hour cylcle time part!!!!!!!!!!!. Hmmm, I paid $17,000 for MC.....:violin:

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxsquirrel View Post
    I did not think the graphics for verify are bad or need updated, it shows the bad spots. It did miss a move between between toolpaths, while 4" deep it did not notice the tool was not being retracted to clearance as it moved to another area. Lost time, broken tooling, and several large pieces of material had to be scraped, not to mention this BS happened at around the 23 hour mark with a 30 some hour cylcle time part!!!!!!!!!!!. Hmmm, I paid $17,000 for MC.....:violin:
    The link I put up to the thread on the Mastercam forum says what the problems are and just how bad Mastercam graphics and Verify are better far better than I ever could.

  15. #35
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    I'd love for the graphics to be improved, personally. Although I don't expect it to happen anytime soon since the entire interface is laid out as a 2d program (IMO).

    I've used several other "parametric" CAD packages that have CAM integrated, such as pro/e or gibbs, (or just straight parametric CAM) but they always disappoint me with the features they have or the level of control they offer. I've used surfcam quite a bit, which probably has more control compared to mastercam, but it's useless options in my opinion. I admit though I'm the type of guy that would love using a simple autocad version if it had CAM abilities

    For the record my process is usually to draw the part using my parametric CAD of choice (Inventor) then import it to mastercam. I wish there were a viable solution for my particular case but I've tried the InventorCAM plugins and I find them to be laughable. Solidworks seems to have a larger add-on market including camworks, which I have demoed in the past, but even though it was better in some ways it was hindering in others.

    I don't think there's a quick easy solution to anything, and I very much don't believe there is one superior program no matter what you're talking about (cad, cam, fea, whatever). If there were, it would obviously be CATIA or pro/e since offering integrated solutions was the entire reason why those two programs begun. But they suck at it.
    IMHO anyway....

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ydna View Post
    I'd love for the graphics to be improved, personally. Although I don't expect it to happen anytime soon since the entire interface is laid out as a 2d program (IMO).

    I've used several other "parametric" CAD packages that have CAM integrated, such as pro/e or gibbs, (or just straight parametric CAM) but they always disappoint me with the features they have or the level of control they offer. I've used surfcam quite a bit, which probably has more control compared to mastercam, but it's useless options in my opinion. I admit though I'm the type of guy that would love using a simple autocad version if it had CAM abilities

    For the record my process is usually to draw the part using my parametric CAD of choice (Inventor) then import it to mastercam. I wish there were a viable solution for my particular case but I've tried the InventorCAM plugins and I find them to be laughable. Solidworks seems to have a larger add-on market including camworks, which I have demoed in the past, but even though it was better in some ways it was hindering in others.

    I don't think there's a quick easy solution to anything, and I very much don't believe there is one superior program no matter what you're talking about (cad, cam, fea, whatever). If there were, it would obviously be CATIA or pro/e since offering integrated solutions was the entire reason why those two programs begun. But they suck at it.
    IMHO anyway....
    Have you looked at Solidcam?

    I am thinking about giving it a try.

    John

  17. #37
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    Funny you mention it because Solidcam is something I have a passing interest in trying. One of the neighboring machine shops in the area uses it. I know it indeed has a lot of modern features. I'm by no means an expert in CAM programs but I like to try getting my hands on as many options as possible. I work for a college and end up small talking this stuff from time to time...but I admit there's a lot of hardware and software we use at the school which I would never advocate buying when a student asks (lol)

    I personally prefer mastercam on the whole, though like I said I don't think anything is perfect. Some parts of featurecam beat mastercam. Some parts of surfcam beat featurecam. When I think about messing with another program I walk into it thinking it'll be just another "some good some bad". I like mastercam since it has great control and the community support is good when you need it. Easy to find people that can help. I also find it easy to adjust the posts too. (although I see some other people complain about that pretty hard)

    If Mastercam made an add-on program for Inventor or SolidWorks that did every single thing that mastercam does, instead of a subset of its abilities combined with hindering many of the native program's options (which all the addons currently do)....well nobody would use the standalone mastercam program any longer. Answering the OP question, of course that would be preferable! But we're not quite there yet...hopefully we'll get there eventually.

  18. #38
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    Go find the case you got in the mail with the Solidworks DVD. Take it into the washroom and take a big crap in the case. Close the case......

    Now you have the equivalent of Mastercam in Solidworks. Without all the bugs and maintenance fees.....

    But don't run it yet it's still in Beta...

    John

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyL7 View Post
    I guess it is also as important to note that for each one of the (very few) guys that are unhappy with mastercam here, there are hundreds and even thousands of absolutely stoked guys using it every day that just don't give a rats a$$ about saying so on a website.

    I think that there are far more dis-satisfied customers than you might think. I dont know many that are "absolutely stoked" about any cam system. I find the the people that are "stoked" or rather do not bother to mention their frustrations with Mastercam are the people that are either invested in it some how (reseller, training, etc), have never used any other system, or have only had their hands on lesser systems such as Bob Cad so they have no real point of reference.

    There are things that in my opinion, make Mastercam stand out from some of the rest in its level of Cam, but having licensed seats of 5 other cad and cam software, I can hardly say that I am even close to "stoked" with this system. And as far as an add on to Solidworks... there are far better choices out there that have been around long enough that the juvenile Mastercam SW plugin has allot of catching up to do.

  20. #40
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    I had the opportunity to try X5 for SW, and HSMworks... 2.5D and 3D for 3 axis milling were priced within a few hundred bucks of each other.

    I went with HSMworks.... it's x64 bit, and the program flow is excellent IMO.

    Love the interface with SW....love the adaptive clearing tool paths.... very intuitive and easy to learn...

    I am not a production machine shop....and am by no means an experienced machinist... in my limited experience I chose a different package than MCAM...

    But back to the topic - did MCAM do what they were advertising? In my limited experience - yea I think it was a nice looking package...close second to HSMWorks for me...

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