[jviss]

I was about to pull the trigger on a great deal for Pro, when I decided to check the differences between Pro and PE (Personal Edition). I currently have the Pro trial version. The only comparison data I have are the feature charts on the website:

Alibre, Inc. - Alibre Design product comparison

Alibre, Inc. - Alibre Design product comparison

The price difference is huge, with PE at $99 and Pro at $699 (list).

Putting these side-by-side, it seems what you get for your additional $600 is:

Installation and Operating System Support

• Native 64 bit support

3D Modeling

• Standard Part Libraries

Sheet Metal Modeling

• Basic Sheet Metal Design

Design Communication

• Advanced 3D PDF Publishing
• Photorealistic Rendering

2D Drawings

• Full 2D Toolset
• Automatic and Manual BOM Creation
• Automatic Title Blocks

Import/Export

• Basic 3D Import
• CAD-neutral 3D Export

Is that all of the differences? Are there any 3D modeling functions, issues of scale, i.e., model size, number of parts in an assembly, etc., that differentiates Pro?

For an 3D design that doesn't require a lot of "standard parts," done by an individual, i.e., not a collaborative effort, no heavy import/export needs, and no sheet metal, PE could be a huge bargain.

I would sincerely appreciate any comments or advice on the decision to go to Pro or just get PE.

Thanks,

jv

[jviss]

I'd also like to ask, since I am a raw beginner at this, does PE have the output or export formats necessary to send a 3D design to CAM? I'm specifically thinking about parts milled out of a block of aluminum.

Thanks!

[wildwestpat]

Hi JV

You have already looked at the Alibre website there is a full list of the extra features that are added at each level. I suggest you start by deciding if you want an integrated CAM to turn your work into code as this is only available in "Alibre Expert". Another pointer for the Expert edition is the sophistication of your requirement for sheet metal work and motion analysis . If these are necessary then you would need to go to the "Alibre Expert" or bite the bullet and find other packages to do the necessary analysis and conversions. Either way is expensive and the "Alibre Expert" package is an economic bundle if you need the various add ins.

If you do not need the full package of the "Alibre Expert" then the choice is between the "P E" and the "Pro" packages and again the extra features will determine if you will be making use / require the extra features. I would down load the trial and see how you get on. Since I went straight to the "Alibre Expert" edition due to the attractive offer being made at the time I purchased I cannot say for certain that the functionality is not limited and suggest you email Alibre Pre Sales Support. The folk on the help desk are good and respond quickly. Alibre 2011 launched in the fall of 2010 and in the past upgrades in version appear every 24 months - hint in the past the best offers have been in just prior to the new version. But do be aware that if you take out the maintenance agreement you are covered for the version upgrades.

The Alibre approach appears to be to add features to a core rather than open up features that have been limited. For example the CAM and Photo Modelling are separate products that have been integrated into the appropriate level of Alibre.

There are upgrade offers from time to time so all is not lost if you set out with the basic "PE" version. There is a steep learning curve and the videos are worth while and neatly add to the built in ones.

Hope this helps as my suggestion is to start with the trial and to progress through the versions as your needs dictate.

Regards

Pat

[jviss]

Thanks Pat,

I have the Pro trial now, and I'm going through the tutorials.

I guess a gap in my knowledge is what interface from CAD to CAM is - what file types or database need you produce on in CAD to input into a CAM system?

I imagine I will have my parts made by a service bureau, and not tool up myself, at least initially. What will they need in order to produce my parts? And, can I get this out of PE?

Thanks,

jv

[wildwestpat]

Hi JV

Glad you have reached a decision.

Think of CAM as being a quick check that the article can be machined using the specified tools. The output file can then drive the machine selected or may require further tweeking or conversion to suit. I use Mach and would do a dry run cutting air to just make sure the tool paths are correct and free from obstructions.

Talk to the people who will be doing the machining. The conversion from the 3D model to the code necessary to dirive the machine used to hue out the desired object starts from a good set of drawings and that is all they should require. It will help if you also add some 3D rendered views and some notes to define treads, wall thickness, surface finish etc - but all that is standard engineering practice.

Having the CAM module built in just gives a quick check that the article can be cut from a solid block. Things like tool radius, maximum machining depth etc. This can be left to the shop selected to make the part and provided you have designed internal radiuses to take into account common tooling you should have no problems. The use of the 3D rendering helps a lot in seeing problem portions of the design that would either have no access for the cutting tool or require four or more axis work to get the tool into place which can be expensive.

Good luck with those tutorial videos. Regards Pat

[jviss]

Thanks again, Pat,

It seems to me as if you are suggesting that I would use 3D CAD to design a sold, produce a set of drawings, and then have the service bureau program the machines to produce the part, working off my drawings. That is not at all what I am thinking. I am thinking I would pass a database to the service bureau, who would use their CAM s/w to produce the tool paths, machine programming, as it were, with no "hand translation."

[scudzuki]

AD Expert has (or had, I thought it was being eliminated) Alibre CAM Express, which has so few MOPs (toolpath strategies) as to be nearly useless except to produce the simplest of parts.

AD Pro and Expert can be "extended" with one of the paid versions of Alibre CAM. The CAM module operates inside the AD interface and enables the end user to create the CNC code for machining the part (milling only, there is no Alibre CAM turning module). In my opinion it would be a waste of money for anyone who does not plan on machining the parts themselves to invest in it or even learn how to use it.

If you plan to design in house and outsource the production of your product, you may need AD Expert to successfully communicate your designs to the outside world (unless your vendors also use Alibre) since PE and Pro lack the ability to export to other standard file types (SolidWorks, etc.).

Joe

[jviss]

Thanks Joe,

I guess what I'm thinking is that AD could produce output in some standard format which would be a representation of the design; this would be input to the CAM software which could then operate on it to produce the machine control, toolpaths, etc., to produce the part.

I may be just imagining that a world like this exists!

It certainly was so years ago when we would produce a "manufacturing database" of a mold in ProE that we could then transmit to a tooling vendor who could make a mold (for injection molded parts) for us. We would send the design for the part, and the tooling vendor would design the tool, i.e., number of cavities, ejectors, ports, etc., and then make the tool.

So, the "standard" output available from AD Pro is:

3DD Export:

• IGES
• STEP
• SAT
• STL

2D Export:

• DXF
• DWG
• Image formats

So, for example, can I transmit IGES to a machine shop and expect that they can make my part?

I'm sorry if I'm just not getting what you are saying, and beating a dead horse; I'm really trying to determine if this end-to-end system can be segmented logically, so I can make a CAD s/w investment decision. If I really need SolidWorks export to get parts made, then I need AD Expert. If IGES or STEP or whatever are adequate, then I can live with Pro. If STL is enough, I can even live with PE!

Thanks,

jv

[Caprirs]

The export format will depend on the machine shop doing the job for you. Not all are keeping up with all possible formats so it would make sense to ask the shops you deal with what format they prefer. If the work tends to be 2.5D, then 2D drawings are often sufficient. Supplying a full solid 3D model may actually result in extra work if they have to convert the solid into 2D DXF/DWG format to import into their CAM software. If there are 3D surfaces, IGES and STL are often adequate.

For shops that are staying current with a CAM package that will import SolidWorks, there are some advantages:
- there is no risk of improperly scaling the part.
- material information (alloy, hardness, etc.) can be included by the designer and the manufacturer's CAM software can automatically recognize that info to select speeds/feeds and machining strategies.
- if a change is made in the SolidWorks file, some newer CAM softwares will automatically update the tool paths/operations.

[Fixee]

I'm in the process of making the same decision.

Software makers, like all marketeers, want to upgrade us. Pro, at 7x the price, doesn't hardly add incremental costs - so it adds to profitability. Consequently, don't expect them to make it easy to decide to go with the Personal Edition.

That said, some common formats for 2D/3D output are supported, and these should be usable by anyone who credibly presents themselves as acting in a service bureau mode. The service bureau needs to offer the flexibility, not the customer ATMO.

So, I think you probably should be fine using DXF and STL files.

I figure that if I don't know what the missing capabilities are (apart from a 1 word description) there is a good chance that I don't need them. Certainly I'm not in a position to use them at this point, if I don't clearly understand what they are.

The Alibre site takes some work to fully open up, but there is some good info that goes back the 1 word comparison lists. Look under the Pro versions, on the left are some categories surrounded by gold and blue for Expert and Pro respectively. Click on the 1-words and there is quite a bit of additional detail

The parts library descriptions are vague. These could be great, but I couldn't access same as part of my trial, so don't know the degree to which they contain things I'm interested in. If I had a commercial budget, it would be different, but I don't so without proof of applicability, its hard to assign great value to the libraries.

How about section views? That could be a big winner for Pro over PE, depending on needs. Are your drawings complicated enough to need BOM? Title Blocks? Or do you have customers that will need these?

More formats is always nice, both import and export, but does it offset the cost of a nice new spindle?

Sheet metal could be fun, and might have some other applications, but again, unless its clear how it'll be used, it seems like nice to have rather than worth a higher price.

Direct Editing (Expert level hence an order of magnitude more expensive than PE) looks like fun, but doesn't seem truly necessary if one cares about how much they are spending.


Dig into the documentation on the Alibre site - including where they describe CAM offerings. I wouldn't expect to do much came with the baseline Alibre Expert, OTOH it appears that more advanced CAM modules should work with PRO. But, until you are making 'in-house', you probably shouldn't really need the CAM.

However, digging through these other sections will give a few more clues about PRO and PE.

Also, if you go PE, I believe it counts as a $50 discount for the purchase of a copy of PRO - so a later upgrade doesn't totally through your investment away. I tend to be a bit conservative, but I'd try PE 1st and only upgrade when I had a clear need.

Its probably clear that I'm starting with PE. An upgrade is somewhere in my future, but not until I need it.

Hope you make a good decision and one that satisfies you.

Cheers,

[jviss]

I just bought AD Expert plus support and training: videos plus workbook. Too much agonizing over what features I might want. Got a good value for the bundle.

I haven't even 'acquired" all the assets yet, still ploughing through tutorials, etc.

[wildwestpat]

Hi JV

I still suggest you talk to the fabrication shop about the input they require. Alibre has a reasonably comprehensive output for machine ready formats and there is a list of these on the Alibre site so I will not repeat them here. To check that you can machine the part you need the CAM feature which enables you to specify tool type diameter tip radius etc. Which again needs to be verified by the fabrication shop to avoid being charged for tools they do not have in stock!

The information to the fabricator could be the digital files for the drawings including the
3D renders and the all important tolerance and surface finnish information. The machine direction code contains the cutting co-ordinates and the conversion from the surface through the CAM will have decided the feed rates which approximate to the finnish but the tolerancing required determines the degree of manual tool setting and the capability of the machine to be used. For economy try to keep tool changes to the minimum and keep in mind the stock sizes of material available from which the part is to be made.

There is no substitute for getting experience so good luck with the first few parts - from there on it becomes automatic - just don't skip any of the preparatory 3D sketch and CAM runs to check viability of the design.

Reagrds - Pat

possible

[jviss]

Thanks for the reply, and all who have replied. This is a great community.

jv