[gene8522]

I made this sign as a fundraiser for my grand-son's school. It is meant to be a yard sign. Here's the problem..... If someone wants to buy one, I have no idea what a fair price would be. The sign is 36" X 14" and made of pine. What do you think is a fair price : painted & unpainted? I am using a home built CNC so I don't have a lot of money tied up in my machine.

[Kottwitz_Signs]

I am using a home built CNC so I don't have a lot of money tied up in my machine.

The problem with this statement is you devalue the process in the eyes of the customer.

There are sign people that do have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in their machines, programs, and frankly years of experience. If you under price what you do, then word will get out, and you may be busy, but you will be taking work from the people that depend on their line of work to put a roof over their head and feed their families.

So now on to your original question. Wholesale prices for unfinished work (in Cedar or HDU, depending on thickness) is $45 to $60, finished $60 to $75 psf.

I charge $125 per square foot for a finished dimensional sign, using signfoam 3.

What ever you charge, make sure its a fair market value.

[Signmaker]

I don't have a lot of money in my machine and don't have to make a big monthly payment for it..... if I charge the going market rate I make a BIGGER profit which I get to keep as a fatter profit margin.

The sign trade these days appears to be stuffed with morons who know nothing about making money... who cares how MUCH your machinery costs... it's how MUCH you can make from using it that matters.

Jeez... does the bloke in a second hand taxi cab charge you less because "they don't have much money in the car"? Of course they don't.... they charge you the going fare.

[El$syd]

I don't have a lot of money in my machine and don't have to make a big monthly payment for it..... if I charge the going market rate I make a BIGGER profit which I get to keep as a fatter profit margin.

The sign trade these days appears to be stuffed with morons who know nothing about making money... who cares how MUCH your machinery costs... it's how MUCH you can make from using it that matters.

Jeez... does the bloke in a second hand taxi cab charge you less because "they don't have much money in the car"? Of course they don't.... they charge you the going fare.

Charge whatever the customer can pay.
$1 may be too little
$1000 may be too much
So somewhere in the middle :-)

Pricing anything is an art ! No-one gets it right all the time, charge too much and you won't sell anything and charge too little and customers won't buy because they think it must be cheap rubbish.

Aren't Taxis regulated and so can't charge market rates?

A glass of water in the middle of the desert is worth a whole lot more to a thirsty person than any drink in a town bar.

[gene8522]

Hey Guys..............
Thanks for the replies. Not trying to start something here, but finding the right price to charge is not an easy thing to come by. That's why I am looking for answers from the people that should know what the going rate is. It is amazing how cheap people are. Just look at all the trash that is coming from China, people buy that junk to save $2 when they could get good high quality for just a little more. I have built custom cabinet before and pricing is the hardest part. I've had more that one tell me that they could go to Home Depot and get it for a lot less. I tell them fine, in five years you will be replacing it. But back to the "signs" I am looking to retire in about a year and a half and it would be nice to be able to do something I enjoy, that will keep me off the computer some of the time.

[El$syd]

Looking at the quality of the work you produced for the sign I believe that you have a 'premium product' !

The sign looks great.

[Litografa]

In laser engraving very often price of final product calculated from price of materials. For example, customer ask 100 badges, and you need for this order 1 sheet of Rowmark plastic priced $40 and 100 magnets priced $1 each. So in total cost of material is $140. if customer is end user - we multiply this amount to 3 and price of order will be $420.
If customer is VIP or dealer - we multiply by 2 and price of order will be $280.

Of course it didn't work for gene8522 sign - your sign is art )) really. But for some standart applications it works.

[bpoulin]

Seeing as you are using a CNC router, Time=Money. How long did it take your machine to route that sign out? A lot of people base the sign price on an hourly rate for the machine. Ask around to find out the going rate, but I've heard it's between $80 and $150 an hour, so at $80 if that sign took 15 min cut, 30 min to design, and 5 min to setup, you charge $20 for the CNC time, $40 for your time, and $7 for setup. Now others charge a flat artwork fee that covers your time, and setup, on top of the hourly rate. Say $80 flat artwork fee for all custom jobs, and $80hr for CNC time. I would call around to local shops and find out the going rate. You really don't want to underprice your work. It seems good at first because you have tons of customers, but after a while you'll get swamped, and want to up your price, and lose a lot of customers doing that. You can always lower your price, but raising it is difficult. The cost of your machine is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the situation, someone could hand carve that sign with hand tools only, and sell it for $50 because they only have a few dollars into a gouge... It's not the machine they're paying you for, it's the knowledge of how to use it.

[FSRDoug]

I think the answer to your question is one that every artisan struggles with. I use my machine to make art most of the time but I also build high end speaker boxes for a small company and some times do cabinets and furniture. I can charge whatever I like for the artwork that I make, sometimes it sells sometimes not.
The speaker boxes were easy, the company put them out to bid and asked me if I could match that price. Done deal.
Furniture and cabinetry is another story. I always struggle with that. The best advice is to know what the going rate in your area is and stay close to that.
If you have a superior product, don't be afraid to charge a premium for that product.

[Joe Crumley]

Gene,

My complements on a neat looking sign.

I'm a commercial sign maker. For the past twenty years I've been making dimensional custom sign and quiet familiar with pricing. Perhaps I can be of assistance.

On matter what your equipment, the price will range from $60 to $150 a square foot. There is always a base price which starts from $80 to $125.

The cost difference depends on complexity, time routing and finishing, along with materials used.

I make good money at $60 per square foot on 2" rough cedar which is V carved and finished with Sikkens stain. That's the bottom of the barrell. Most of my signs range between $100 to $125.00.

You have a great future in this trade if you so choose to.

Joe Crumley
Norman Sign Company, Norman, Oklahoma, SandBlasted Signs, Sign Painter, Redwood Signs

[jack halley]

Joe,
Do these prices include installation? Do you install?

Do you have a blog where you have tutorials or any kind of block learning?

I am very impressed with your signs!

Jack in Forsyth, Mo.

[Joe Crumley]

Jack,

Thank you for the questions and complements.

I wish I'd developed some kind of tutorials but couldn't see a place or interest to do so. Now with the internet that might have been possible.

Of all the unknown area's of this trade, installation tops the list. I learned this lesson the hard way. So, no I don't do much installation. A client should be informed, up front, they will be hiring you to build a beautiful sign. You may want to include the price in your total bid, but it should still be stated, "Installation by Others".

To raise prices and build a good business, it's helpful to have lots of samples. Don't expect your prospective client to know what you can do. It's best to show them.

Joe Crumley

[jack halley]

Joe,
Your signs are beautiful!
What has been the most challenging aspect of sign building?
It sure looks like you have your finishing techniques down to a fine art.
What primer do you use for HDU?
Do you use HVLP?
Thanks for your time and expertise!


Jack Halley

[Joe Crumley]

J.

Thank you for the complements.

The process for me has been experimentation with materials and techniques. As a young man I was eaten alive with the desire to create the best signs I could. I would devour information and experiment, making lots of samples.

The samples were the key.

I don't use any fancy equipment except for the router. My spray equipment is cheap Harbour Freight HVLP's. They are disposable to me. I don't spend much time cleaning up. My primer is catalized High Build Primer from the Auto Paint Store. I don't use much HDU now days. It's too figety and expensive.

My favorite materials are DiBond, Trupan, Extira, MDO and MDF Cedar and Yellow Pine. I've give up on Red Wood.

Good luck with your routing. Make lots of samples to show your clients. You'll learn while making them and they will be your friends for years.

Joe Crumley
Norman Sign Company, Norman, Oklahoma, SandBlasted Signs, Sign Painter, Redwood Signs

[bpoulin]

These are beautiful pieces of work. The one photo shows you using a syringe, what are you using for the fill? Also what size router do you have? I have a 15x15 CNC, I would love to put it to use, but I think it's a bit small.

[Joe Crumley]

B.

The photo showing the State of Oklahoma seal has a smooth background made from epoxy which I've colored with One Shot enamel. Like you have observed, the epoxy is applied with a veteranerians hypo. The Hemingway sign was done the same way except I used several different colors and mixed them as I went.This seal was placed at the top of the Election Board sign shown in the photo.

I have a 5'X15 EZ-Router. I started out with a ShopBot but couldn't get the quality I needed and it required continual updates. I threw in the towel on that one. The EZ seems to fill the bill. Both of these are low end equipment.

Joe Crumley

[gmfoster]

Joe
No doubt your an artist...
Beautiful work..

[bpoulin]

I should have been more specific, I didn't know we were talking about CNC's in feet. That 15x15 I have, is in inches lol.

[Joe Crumley]

"Joe, What been the most challenging aspect of sign building"?

I'm not sure I answered Jack Halley's question properly.

It seems to me there are a couple of major challenges. First, find a lucerative Nitch Market. For me, I follow the money. Anything which has to do with medicine is a good nitch. For example, Veterinarians, Chiropractic, Dentists, Maxiofacial, Sports Med., or anything that has M.D. in the title. The second challenge is pricing. If I loose a job due to price, it's a shrug of the shoulders. It frees up my time to search for another good client. If you get a reputation of being cheap it will haunt you all your life.

Presentation is everything. It's even more important than price. I've walked away with contracts when my competition didn't put their best foot forward. When I started out I didn't have a portfolio. So I made up a "Concept Book". I clipped photo's out of magazine showing beautiful signs putting them in glassine sleeves, three ring binder. It was a big beautiful collection. It worked too. Clients would point to a pix and say could you do something like this? You DON'T need lot of your personal work to show but you do need to show the customer something. Make sure you let them know it is for concepts and not your work.

While driving by a professional business that has a "Run Down" sign, that's you're opportunity. If you make up a nice little drawing, wire frame, no color and drop it by, you've baited the hook. Place it in a folder, with your business card, and a nice letter telling them you would like to work for them on a sign update. Most of the time your client will want to know the price up front. That's the easy part. Tell them prices are based on a squre foot price. I'd suggest not making more drawing without a commitment. Some clients will lead you down a dead end path.

There's plenty of good out there but sometimes you have to ask for it.

Joe Crumley
wwwnormansignco.com

The attachment below was for the telephone book ten years ago. It was moderately successful. It got the phone ringing but the cost was way too expensive. I no longer use yelllow pages adertising.

[BaySigns]

I noticed an earlier question about installation that did not have a response. We are a full service sign company that designs, builds (all except electrical), and installs signs & graphics in a large metro area in the Southeast.

The going rate for ground installations in our region ranges from $60 - $100 per hour. Obviously a lot of variables involved but it can be more profitable than fabricating some sign products. Like many of the previous comments about 'what to charge for a sign', your knowledge of what the customer & market will bear will impact your quoted price.

If you have the skills and time you should consider quoting installation any time a client asks for it. One less reason for the client to go elsewhere...