[BSawyer486]

Ok guys,
I have burned up my C6 spindle speed control board after nearly two years of almost flawless operation. Bought a C41 board to replace it and as of now I have not been able to get the output at the 0-10vdc terminal. All I can squeeze out is 3.84 volts when I call for max spindle speed. half spindle speed gets me 1.9 and thru the rest of the range it stays linear. I know I am suppose to have nearer 10 vdc max but it aint there. The relays enable with M3 and M4 and disable with M5 like I assume they should. Anyone have any ideas how to get to output voltages up where they ought to be. when I first connected it I was only getting 2.04vdc at max and at half speed 1.0 so IO think I am pretty close. Really would appreciate any help anyone might have to offer.
Thanks,
Bruce

[eartaker]

Are you sure you have all power requirements meet for the board (12VDC)? Also take a look at page 8 of the manual. there is a pot that you need to adjust.

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C41R1_1_User_Manual.pdf

[BSawyer486]

Yes Sir,

The 12vdc power to the board is there and the adjustment is maxed out on the pot. Is there possible a setting in Mach3 that might have something to do with it? I think I have everything set correctly but I've been wrong before.

[eartaker]

What do you have the PWM base freq set to in Mach under ports/pins and spindle setup?

Also in motor tuning do you have the steps per set to 1000 and the velocity maxed out? Also in the manual I found this "Under Step Pulse length,
use a number from 3 to 5, but start with 3. This number is directly proportional to the
final voltage you will get in the analog output."

[BSawyer486]

Good morning and thanks for your replies,

I have PWM set to 20 (tried it at many different numbers). I have steps set at 1000 and velocity maxed out at 1500. Have seen some people able to set to 2700, any idea why I only get 1500? and have tried 3, 4 and 5 on the pulse length.
Going to pick another 12vdc power supply on my way home incase this one is getting weak and the relays are drawing too much.
Thanks again,
Bruce

[BSawyer486]

Ok, Bought a 12vdc 2 amp wall wart. going out now to wire that in place. Anyone have any other ideas that might help me kick this thing in the butt.
Thanks,
Bruce

[BSawyer486]

Well, new power supply all connected and still same thing. Please, anyone out there got any experience with the C41 that might be able to offer some/any advice.
Thanks,
Bruce

[eartaker]

I would contact CNC4pc and see what they say. You have meet all of the power requirements and set it up correctly so there isn't much more you can do.

[BSawyer486]

Yeah, I have contacted Arturo, he is very helpful but I know he is a busy man and it takes a couple days for him to reply to each step of trouble shooting. I really need to get this thing going so I figured I would see what the gurus of the ZONE had to say. A friend of mine asked me a question today that made me think..."Do you have all the stuff you need to make it work?". Well, I think I do. I was running a C6 board for about two years until the other day I was drilling some .531 holes in alum. Big "pop" and the spindle stopped working. I took the C6 out of the system and went back with the Rheostat and it worked so the KBIC board is still good. Ordered a C41 cuz the C6 was back-ordered and. The C41 seems to be working close to correctly in that the leds near the relays light up with M03 and M04 and the relays go click click. Does this sound like there is anything missing?
Thanks again for your time,
Bruce

[BSawyer486]

Ok, Let's try another angle. Can anyone tell me where the power coming from the C41 out the 0-10v connection comes from. I am assuming that is provided by the 12vdc power supply I replaced yesterday and travels thru the c41 and is transformed to the proper voltage as determined by input from Mach3. So, this tells me something is not quite right in the language/translators in Mach3 or on the C41 board. Sooo, back to the origination of the signal. Not real sure what PWM is or how it is generated. Is the PWM Frequency supposed to be a set number, where is this number found? I have it set to 20 as shown in the PDF but is that a set value or can it be different with some machines? The Steps set in mach3 are at 1000, changing that has no affect on the output. velocity set at the 1500 max. Acceleration doesnt seem to change anything.
I guess the biggest bother to me is the C6 worked nearly perfect for so long and the C41 is supposed to work the same except for it uses PWM. After work today I will order another C6 if they are actually in stock but would really rather make this C41 work.
Ok, I'm thru, I get up way to early before work. had to kill some time.
Anyone out there that might have any suggestions would sure make my day.
Thank You,
Bruce

[flak-spammer]

Hey, I have no experience with CNC systems or anything. But where are you getting your PWM signal from? PWM works on the basis of duty cycle (time on) that is in linear voltage 50% duty cycle should equate to 0.5*10v or 5v. So if you have an oscilloscope I would check the PWM pin and make sure that it is indeed outputting the correct duty cycle. That could be your problem, since it is clearly outputting a voltage. Also note that the frequency for motor PWM is usually around 100hz where the step frequency can be up to 50khz or so.

[BSawyer486]

"But where are you getting your PWM signal from?" That is a good question. I am thinking it is a signal generated by Mach3, output thru a pin on the selected port. Is this correct? maybe someone else can chime in and clarify this for me. Anyway, I ordered another C6 board and will go back the way it was and hopefully that will work. Sure would have been nice to get something different/better working but I'll save the C41 for my next build (CNC Lathe) and maybe someone or myself will learn how they work so I can use it on that. Thanks for the help from those who helped.
Bruce

[Shanghyd]

Sounds like their tech support could be better.

[BSawyer486]

Well, Nothing still. Hopefully my new C-6 will arrive today.
I was asked by Arturo "Is your controller set to PWM with 1000hz frequency?" Yes, the PWM check box is checked and I am assuming he is talking the Kernel Speed. No it isnt at 100khz as that causes my computer to lock-up. I remember seeing something about this problem in the past but dont recall if there is a fix or just run it slower and live with it. Anyone have any ideas about this incase I somehow get another day to work on it before my new board arrives?
Thanks again folks,
Bruce

[hoss2006]

never used a c41 but remember having to set the spindle step pulse
as high as 15 to get the voltage needed for one of my c6's.
Hoss

[BSawyer486]

Hey Hoss,
Thanks for your reply. And it is an honor to have one of the GURUS reply. (not to take away from other posters) I remember reading your posts and seeing that info when I originally set this thing up roughly two years ago. You do a fantastic job of showing how you were able to make things work.
I have tried a wide range settings in the step pulse and dir pulse velocity and acceleration blocks.
Arturo says the 1000hz refers to the PWM frequency on the ports&pins/ Spindle setup page and not the kernel speed page for anyone else that might be trying to get one of these running although that hasn't worked for me yet. get a message PWM frequency bumped to minimum an when I check it is set back to 43hz. I was hoping my C6 would have been delivered yesterday but I guess maybe today.
If anyone out there has any knowledge about what each setting has an affect on it could sure make setting one of these up. Prolly has the same result for the C6 or the C41 and maybe other board out there as well. Maybe could get that put on a website somewhere. Anyway, Thanks again to anyone that might be able to help with this.
Bruce

[LatheMaster]

I havent tried to control my spindle in mach 3 but everyone that has questions always gets this link in there forum . This might be of some help or not . Read through this .

G540 VFD

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Ok, Let's try another angle. Can anyone tell me where the power coming from the C41 out the 0-10v connection comes from. I am assuming that is provided by the 12vdc power supply I replaced yesterday and travels thru the c41 and is transformed to the proper voltage as determined by input from Mach3. So, this tells me something is not quite right in the language/translators in Mach3 or on the C41 board. Sooo, back to the origination of the signal. Not real sure what PWM is or how it is generated. Is the PWM Frequency supposed to be a set number, where is this number found? I have it set to 20 as shown in the PDF but is that a set value or can it be different with some machines? The Steps set in mach3 are at 1000, changing that has no affect on the output. velocity set at the 1500 max. Acceleration doesnt seem to change anything.
I guess the biggest bother to me is the C6 worked nearly perfect for so long and the C41 is supposed to work the same except for it uses PWM. After work today I will order another C6 if they are actually in stock but would really rather make this C41 work.
Ok, I'm thru, I get up way to early before work. had to kill some time.
Anyone out there that might have any suggestions would sure make my day.
Thank You,
Bruce

The speed control output voltage does NOT come from the 12V supply to the BOB. There are separate +/- supply connections for JUST the speed control circuit which MUST come from the motor controller NOT an external power supply. Using anything else will not only create a potentially dangerous condition, but also likely damage the BOB, motor controller, or both. The X2 controller has three connections to its speed control potentiometer. One end is supply -, the other end is supply +, the middle is the control voltage. The two end connections must go to the + and - supply connections to the speed control circuit on the BOB. The middle connection must go to the output of the speed control circuit on the BOB. Keep in mind ALL of these connections are at mains potential, so should be kept isolated from ANYTHING else, or you can easily create an electrocution hazard.

I never was able to get the speed controls on any of my CNC4PC BOBs to work terribly well - they were rather non-linear, and not very consistent from day to day. A few years ago I switched to the Homann DigiSpeed DC03, which has worked flawlessly from day one.

Regards,
Ray L.

[BSawyer486]

Thank you both for your replies,

Ok, keeping in mind that I had this running with a C6 for about two years, I did away with the breakout board about a year and a half ago and soldered wires directly to a 25 pin connector on my enclosure nice and neat. Been working great ever since. I will tell you that my new C6 was just delivered a few minutes ago. I'm going to try for the rest of today with the C41 and after that I'm putting the new C6 in and putting the C41 on the shelf til times get hard and I have to sell it...lol. or I get my second and third builds to the point where I need a control for them. I will be looking into the homann digispeed you mentioned. as it looks like they do have alot of info on the website. Thanks again and if ya think of anything else I'd be more than happy to hear it.
Bruce

[BSawyer486]

Man, I feel like such a quitter. I pulled the C41 out and put the new C6 in and except for a little fine tuning all is back the where it was two weeks ago when I heard that terrible POP. Thanks to everyone for their input and hopefully someday I will have enough knowledge to be able to help someone else in need.
Bruce