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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0

    Need Help and Camsoft will not help.

    Ok so I just finished all the wiring and I wired the limits as sourcing. Because of it I need to enter !COMMAND CN 1,1 into the startup.fil. The problem I am having is when I open the startup.fil in Edit Other Motion Control Files and save it. Whether or not I add any logic, when I go to open Camsoft after I save the file I get to where I enter the password and then the user interface will not come up. In windows task manager it says not responding. It makes me think there is something wrong with the CBK file that Camsoft initially sent with the program.

    Ok so let me give you a rundown of what I did from the beginning to show you that I think something is wrong with the CBK file.
    After I first had the program not respond I reinstalled it.
    Once reinstalled, before anything, I launched the Camsoft program. Everything Started as normal.
    I then went into setup, clicked "restore" and opened the .CBK file that I put into the Galil folder that was on the floppy disk Camsoft provided.
    Opened Camsoft and everything still started as normal.
    Then I went back in setup and set my general settings and i/o settings. Clicked save.
    Then Clicked backup to save information into .CBK file
    Then I went back into Camsoft and everything started as normal.
    I then went into setup and then Edit Other Motion Control Files.
    I opened the startup.fil and without entering any logic this time I clicked save and exited out of the setup program like I was prompted.
    Opened setup again and backed up the CBK file again.
    I went into Camsoft, entered the password, and then I got not responding just like the first time.

    You see, even when I do not enter any logic, something is going on when I save the startup.fil and then backup the CBK file. This makes me think there is something wrong with the coding in the CBK file because you should be able to save the startup.fil especially when I do not add any logic. Its just re-saving what is already there to begin with.

    I sent this to Ruben at Camsoft and he is telling me that there is no problem with the CBK file so it has to be something I am doing but he did say that reading what I wrote that I am not doing anything wrong. He says in order for him to help I would have to send the CBK file over for him to see if there is something wrong with it. But in order to do that we have to pay a subscription fee of 1200 bucks just so he can help me. This is outrageous because I am doing things the book says I can do.

    Anyone have any ideas? I need to get this right so I can see if I did the wiring correctly and get the machine running. I did have a long posting on here a couple months ago and the gentleman on here helped me through the process and confirmed that my wiring looks correct.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1542
    Can't see what's happening from your description. My guess is startup.fil is getting corrupted and won't load.

    A suggestion, why don't you try a simpler route? All your *.fil are just text files. Use your favorite programmer's editor on them. MAKE SURE WORD WRAP IS OFF. The Camsoft editor is a good choice. I just use notepad when working right at the machine.

    On another note, Camsoft is a powerful control software with a ton of features. Because of this, its difficult for first time installers. IMHO, its near impossible to configure your first machine without serious help. I know the maintenance fee is steep, but it is worth it. If you're not willing to do this, I'd suggest you switch to simpler controls like EMC or Mach.

    Karl

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    0
    I had the same problem right away as well, After I reinstalled it the problem never came back. I change the .CBK file name every time I back up to save my progress. That way if I run into a problem I can restore from a file I know to be good. I used Camsofts help and sent them my .CBK file when I got stuck and they were alot of help. I will absolutely use Camsoft again. Very powerful system.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1542
    Quote Originally Posted by Mbock View Post
    I had the same problem right away as well, After I reinstalled it the problem never came back. I change the .CBK file name every time I back up to save my progress. That way if I run into a problem I can restore from a file I know to be good. I used Camsofts help and sent them my .CBK file when I got stuck and they were alot of help. I will absolutely use Camsoft again. Very powerful system.
    Seriously good advice. You WILL screw up. My naming convention is machine date current change. For example, I just put a RESUME user button on my mill and then named the file: Excello 110225 RESUME button.cbk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    0
    I have been just using the date, then I make a note in a type of journal. I keep track of stuff that way because my mind is not like a steel trap, stuff gets out of it all the time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    332
    We did try to help even though your software is old and you declined
    maintenance. We looked at your settings and files for you. There was nothing
    wrong in the CBK or the settings you had. We concluded that there must be
    one or more damaged or missing supporting CamSoft, Windows and/or motion
    card files and ask you to reinstall from the CD from scratch.

    Did you try re-installing before you wrote here?
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Camsoft,

    You did not look at my CBK file because you would not allow me to send it without the subscription. In my email to you I stated that I reinstalled the program. I did it 3 times because every time I would reinstall it everything worked fine until I tried to save the startup.fil with or without any added logic. I sent my emails to Ruben, and he stated from what I said that I am not doing anything wrong. So how are these files getting corrupted? They shouldnt when I am only doing what the book says to do.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Mbock,

    I did reinstall the program and the problem went away until I saved the startup.fil. Once I saved it the system hung up. Because of this I can not add the logic needed for the limits being wired as sourcing.

    Karl T,

    I will try to use notepad and save it that way. Hopefully that works. Thanks for the advice.

    All,

    Im and under the impression that I add the !COMMAND CN 1,1 at the end of the preexisting logic, correct?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    0
    I have !COMMAND CN 1,1 as the very first line in my startup.fil. I just checked it out to make sure. Maybe if you open the file with note pad and omit things with the (') before the instructions, the enable them 1 at a time to see where your startup is hanging. It would be time consuming but you should be able to locate where the hangup is. I don't know for sure if this would be the proper way to do it but it is what I would try.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    332
    We used the CBK we last gave you and it's not the STARTUP.FIL file itself. Yours and every default CBK work with or without logic in the STARTUP.FIL file when saved. We still believe it's one or more of the supporting files that run the whole system. If re-installing doesn't help this would take some deeper investigation and to do so would mean you would need to be using the same software as we are and possibly a look at your PC as well.

    We are trying to be helpful, but there's no quick answer to get you on your way. It's not our place to say but you should know that the talk in the office is that your approach is not advancing your goals with us. At this point it looks like you set the bridge on fire.

    Tech Support
    CamSoft Corp.
    [email protected]
    PH 951-674-8100
    Fax 951-674-3110
    PC Based CNC Control For The Machine Tool CNC Retrofit And CNC Controller OEM Market
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1542
    Quote Originally Posted by SMcDevitt View Post
    Camsoft,

    You did not look at my CBK file because you would not allow me to send it without the subscription. In my email to you I stated that I reinstalled the program. I did it 3 times because every time I would reinstall it everything worked fine until I tried to save the startup.fil with or without any added logic. I sent my emails to Ruben, and he stated from what I said that I am not doing anything wrong. So how are these files getting corrupted? They shouldnt when I am only doing what the book says to do.
    I should warn you, I've bet these guys a beer on more than one occasion that it was their problem. I now owe enough beers to get the whole office wasted. These guys work miracles, but they don't work for free.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    59
    Obviously Camsoft's file editor should work. There is probably some unconventional problem going on (hence why Camsoft suggested re-installing the software). Consider it might also be your Windows installation.

    But first... Do a _binary_ comparison of the .FIL and/or .CBK file you edit (before and after) using a program like Beyond Compare. This will show you exactly what changed. An ASCII comparison won't. If you need help with this, contact me and send me the two files.

    There's not much that can go wrong here. I mean, the .FIL files are just standard text files. I always edit them using text editors like Notepad (or Notepad++ which allows me to open multiple .FIL files at once). Or, I edit the entire .CBK file and read it back in through CNCSetup. Try that and see if the problem continues so you can isolate that it really is a problem with CNCSetup corrupting the file. If CNCSetup is corrupting the file, it has to be something on your system that is messed up (bad Camsoft install, or bad Windows install).

    To see if it's your Windows system, install Camsoft on another PC. You can run CNCSetup without the license key even. Edit the file on the second PC in CNCSetup, then copy either the specific .FIL file, or save and copy the .CBK back to the original machine and see if the problem persists.

    Regards,
    Mike

    P.S. What do you mean by enter the password when starting Camsoft? Is this the AT YOUR OWN "RISK" password you must enter on a new Camsoft installation? Is there any reason having this password enabled would cause this problem? I imagine most people clear this password right away.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    58
    Camsoft is the WORST company I have ever dealt with.
    Sorry to hear your plight but it is typical of how they do business.
    We used them for one project and switched immediately after to another supplier.
    The only good point is that machine is still running - with unsolved issues, but running.

    Siemens although more expensive is a much more reliable control and they stand behind their products, wait for it ---- YES, EVEN IF THEY ARE 20 YEARS OLD ---- YES, WITH NO CONTINUOUS MAINTENANCE CONTRACT.

    CAMSOFT refused to replace a damaged CD for our company without buying/upgrading to a new product. That was it for me. How can CAMSOFT defend not making available to someone the same item we already paid for. I would rate them 1/2 step above a scam.

    You will find almost any other machine tool supplier superior.

    Good Luck!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Camsoft,

    How did I set the bridge on fire when I have been professional this whole time on here and in my emails with Ruben. Not once was I hostile or anything of that nature. Although, I do not know how many times that I told you guys that I have reinstalled Camsoft and everything worked until I saved the startup.fil in your editor with or without changing or adding any logic. I do not see how I am the talk in the office and burning bridges. Please explain.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Lohmeyer,

    The password is risk and it is entered everytime I go to enter camsoft. Its just a red oval where you type the password. I did not know you can take that off. As I stated already in the thread I have reinstalled camsoft 3 times and everytime it worked with no problems until I saved the startup.fil in their editor with or without adding or changing the logic.

    How could the windows installation effect only when I save the startup.fil? that just doesnt make sense.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    rmarchjr,

    I am trying to give Camsoft the benefit of the doubt and I hope what you say doesnt turn out to be the truth.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by SMcDevitt View Post
    How could the windows installation effect only when I save the startup.fil? that just doesnt make sense.
    It only makes sense because the issue you are having, actually, doesn't make sense. Meaning, it's just plain odd. Your description is very straight forward and I agree, it makes no sense doing what you are doing should cause the problem you are having.

    That means whatever is wrong is probably something unconventional, or possibly completely unrelated to startup.fil and CNCSetup. Camsoft's first answer was to re-install their software in case something was corrupted. I'm extending that to the possibility that something is corrupted on your Windows system, and re-installing Camsoft doesn't fix that corruption. If the Windows installation is old or heavily used (lots of software installed and/or removed), this is very plausible. If your Windows install is new, maybe there's another program installed that is conflicting with Camsoft. Now _that_ would not surprise me at all. For example, did you install GalilTools on your PC? That would cause all kinds of issues. The Galil drivers and Camsoft-Galil Drivers are not compatible.

    Regardless, the first thing you need to do is figure out what changed on the startup.fil file. Do a _binary_ comparison of startup.fil before and after you open it in CNCSetup. That will give a huge clue. Also, similarly, save a .CBK and do a before and after binary comparison on the saved .CBK file vs. the one you started with. Maybe it isn't startup.fil that's being changed, but maybe CNCSetup is changing some other file that you aren't aware of.

    BTW, if you re-load your original, unedited .CBK file, does Camsoft work again after locking up? Until you find what changed, it's difficult to know what to do next.

    Regarding Windows, I'm not suggesting you re-install your Windows. I'm suggesting you install Camsoft on a different PC, and edit the startup.fil file on that PC. Copy the edited Startup.fil file to the original machine and see if you continue to get the same problem. If you don't, then there is probably something wrong with Windows on your Camsoft PC that is conflicting with CNCSetup. If you do get the same problem, then it is possible there is something wrong with how you are installing Camsoft - something you are doing different than everyone else. I know, crazy, but I'm just trying to point out the different possibilities. There is no reason why opening and closing startup.fil should change the file and corrupt your Camsoft, but somehow it is. You need to consider all possibilities.

    The key starts with finding out what changed.


    The password is risk and it is entered everytime I go to enter camsoft.
    OK, that's what I thought, I wasn't sure.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Lohmeyer,

    There is no Galil Tools installed on the computer. I will try everything that you said and hopefully I can come up with an answer. I do not have the time this weekend but as soon as I get to it I will post my results.

    I will first edit the startup.fil in notepad and see if it will work that way.

    If not then I will try reloading the first cbk file to see if that will get past the system hang up.

    If not then I will do the binary comparison.

    Hopefully by editing it through notepad will be the answer but Murpheys Law will most likely come into play. Thanks for all your help and also the rest of the folks on this thread.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    0
    I installed the software on my laptop that is running Windows XP with alot of other things running in the background. Just to see if it would run. When I started Camsoft I got some messages to close a few things that were running on the laptop, then after I closed the programs the software asked me to it started just fine. I even tried to tell it it had a motion card in it and it gave me an error stating it couldn't find the card. I am not getting it to just hang and not start, when there is a problem it gives me some kind of error message. The computer I installed Camsoft in that I have on the machine had a clean Windows XP install in it. You have a stumper there. I have had great luck with Camsoft and will definitely be using them on my next refit I do. They were very helpful to me when I got backed into a corner.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    0
    Yea I am not getting any sort of error message. Camsoft was put on a brand new xp computer right out of the box. Perhaps one of the proprietary software that is installed from factory is creating some kind of mess but I doubt it. I always do a fresh install of the OS whenever I buy a new computer to get rid of any crap but this is not my computer and I did not purchase it. I am only the technician doing the install. Perhaps I will reinstall xp for ****s and giggles if nothing else works.

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