[arizonavideo]

I have one of the larger hobby mills a Industrial Hobbies mill and it is not to hard to be around +/- .002" for a smaller part of less than three inches working in aluminum.

I have also read all your post.

You just don't really understand how hard it is to work inside a .001" window.

The grinder idea might let you use a more standard mill and then do the grind.

You will still be closer to 15k if a used grinder is OK but you would have a chance that way.

[Rockn-Roll]

Is this some sort of hazing? I would like to think that some of these posts are a joke of some kind, but if not then I'm afraid some of my comments are just going to offend some of you...it's not my intent, but I'd rather deal with posts as serious and hope my comments can help some of you become better machinists. If not then please have a nice laugh at my expense...I'm sure we could all use a good laugh.

after reading this the simple answer to your problem is.

A GRINDER

I see...I can't wait to hear more. Could you go start another thread so you can share with us why a grinder is a better machining solution than a cutting tool? Perhaps I will post in your thread with details of how grinding up something into a powder creates more heat than removing chips and why heat is bad for a machining process and should be minimized. Thanks.

My degree is a BSME. The info I learned in the formal classes and lab at Univ. of Arizona did not correspond well to the real world. Surprise.

That's unfortunate that you didn't spend more time working on the machines...just reading the books and doing the minimum work for the classes isn't enough...most educational programs have everything set up for you...in fact if you use the machine after the previous student for the same part and don't remove the fixtures, and restore the machine back to a default state then you aren't learning anything. You have to actually commit to the time necessary to work with the machines over and beyond what is required to complete the classwork. As I said in the book I wrote in my previous post...I spent a lot of extra hours on the machines. I would arrive at school before 7AM so I could get in an hour of experience on the tools before my first class. The instructor even trusted me to run off some screws that the ME department needed for its senior project design kits while he worked on the specs for other projects. Yes...I was the only fool to take advantage of the opportunity to work with machine tools...everyone else was getting that extra hour of sleep that was so crucial to their real world skills...sounds like you were not an exception.

Before spending your money, I would suggest getting away from the academic environment and visiting a few machine shops. Ask the people who are spending the money on the machines, running the parts, inspecting the parts and see what they think.

That's what this forum is for...hello...I am now communicating with people who are spending the money on the machines, running the parts, inspecting the parts and seeing what they think. In fact, some of them have posted in this thread. Are you one? What machine are you using?

A basic rule of thumb I have learned is that if the "required" precision is .001", then the machine and the measuring tools must be an order of magnitude better. Thus, if you want .001" in the final piece, the machine must operate to .0001" and the measuring tools should have resolution of .0001". This is because of the statistical variances from all the factors beyond your control (or the machine tool builders control).

Wow...that was actually covered in my manufacturing processing coursework, but I never expected to hear it from a real machinist. I think there was a cartoon to illustrate it. I think it went something like the first frame showed the workshop owner buying a machine with precision of +/-.0005" then the next frame shows the machinist telling the owner that he needs to buy a more expensive machine. The last frame shows machinist standing in line at the unemployment office. Could you post a picture of yourself...then I can check my school books to see if it's you.

You don't need a machine with .0001" precision to turn a part with +/-.0005" precision...what you need is a machine with +/-.0005" precision and a machinist who has the skill to make the machine do it's job...that's what a machinist is paid for. There's more to making parts than clamping down some bar stock and pushing buttons...a machinist needs to get to know his machine...what it can do and where its strengths and weaknesses are. In fact, a good machinist can get to know a machine well enough to turn parts which exceed the tools precision. For example, if the machine has a spindle deflection of .001" when under the desired load from tool type & size and spindle & feed speed then a poor machinist will make the excuse that the machine can only make a part with a precision of .001", but a smart machinist would make a final finishing cut with a lighter load to improve the quality of the finished part. This isn't rocket science...think about what you are doing before doing it...there's usually a better way of doing something than what is obvious.

Your above example of a stepper motor with .9* steps and a .196" pitch screw. Let's assume the machine has an encoder and runs in closed loop. The minimum step is .00049". However, the screw can rotate +/-.00048" before the encoder signals the control that the screw is out of position by one step. In this instance, all the allowable tolerance in your part is already being used by the position error of that axis. And this ignores backlash, machine deflections, tool deflection, temperature variations, etc.

Wow...your imaginary machine sounds fascinating...I'd like to read more about this in another thread. I'm more interested in real machine specifications in this thread.

My principal concern is having a tool project from the spindle 5". That's a long reach even for a full size machining center that costs $100K. On a benchtop, that's so far, I'd be amazed if the tool will even cut. My guess is the tool will chatter and bounce, no matter how slow the feed and no matter how light the cut. I have no doubt those benchtops can drill 5" deep. It's the profile milling that would be a problem. I am not suggesting the machine would be cutting along the entire 5" axial length, perhaps only .01" at the tip. However, being that far away from the spindle bearings is likely to result in more deflection that is acceptable.

I see...uhm...I don't want to insult you, but I would hope that a machinist could figure out that if they need to make a 5" hole in a part (which by the way I never said that I'm going to do) then they could drill a 2.5" hole then flip the part around and drill the rest of the hole from the other side. Are you sure you are a machinist?

I have one of the larger hobby mills a Industrial Hobbies mill and it is not to hard to be around +/- .002" for a smaller part of less than three inches working in aluminum.

Then it sounds like the machining system you are using has a precision of +/-.002" or you aren't taking advantage of it's strengths and are making the cuts i n such a way that it's weaknesses are causing a loss of precision on the parts you are making. I'm looking at the IHCNC web site right now...they claim that, "Our CNC Mill moves and machines in tenth,s [sic] 0.0001 of a thousandth." and the CNC system is a closed loop servo setup...sounds like the best design possible. They also claim, "The Optical Limit and Home switch's have a return accuracy of 0.0002" and are designed to withstand the harshest of environments." Of course the ways and ballscrews could be causing a mechanical loss of precision, or are you saying that the specifications are not correct or you just can't figure out how to get the machine to make a single cut within .002"? There are lots of reasons why a particular part is out of tolerance by .002" and it's not always the machine's fault...it could be the way the part is fixed to the table, or the direction of the cut...some machines even have better precision in the Y direction than the X direction due to the extra rigidity. It could also be a build-up of heat in the part...get an infrared heat gun and measure the change in temperature of the part while it's being machined...in fact that actually seems likely to be your problem since it appears that the machine does not come with a flood coolant option. Perhaps you could install a vortex cooling system like what I plan to do? The easiest way to remove heat from a machining operation is to get those hot chips off the part.

I have also read all your post.

Thanks...I appreciate the effort and am adding the IHCNC mill as one of my possible machines...I'll make sure to ask about the mechanical precision of the ways and ballscrews and let them know that a machinist told me that it can't turn parts with better than +/-.002" precision and see if they can explain why...perhaps they have a better way of machining parts with their equipment than you do.

You just don't really understand how hard it is to work inside a .001" window.

The grinder idea might let you use a more standard mill and then do the grind.

You will still be closer to 15k if a used grinder is OK but you would have a chance that way.

Grinding is going to create more heat than necessary. As a learning experience you should get an infrared heat gun and install a cutting tool in your mill then measure the heat in the part during a sample cut. Then do the same cut with a grinding tool. I'm sure the part will heat up a lot more during the grinding operation that it does during the cutting operation.

[DareBee]

This is getting too funny.

Get off your high horse and listen to some of the EXPERIENCED people here.

If you don't want to do that, stop ranting about it.

[ihavenofish]

Grinding is going to create more heat than necessary. As a learning experience you should get an infrared heat gun and install a cutting tool in your mill then measure the heat in the part during a sample cut. Then do the same cut with a grinding tool. I'm sure the part will heat up a lot more during the grinding operation that it does during the cutting operation.

as a learning experience you should do the same. except put your hand on the part and tool to measure the temperatures. make sure you do the ground one first cause you might not have any skin left after touching the milled one.

For example, the Novakon nm200 specifications indicate a Spindle Positioning Accuracy of +/-.0005" and Repeatability of .00025"...OK, but that's just one degree of tolerance for one direction of one component...the repeatability for the X and Y positioning is not given and the accuracy is only stated for the ballscrew to be “P5”...whatever that is...my web searches aren't finding a definition of this spec., so if anyone knows what “P5” precision means then I’m open to learning. The ballscrew pitch on that machine is given as .196" and the stepper angle is .9º which seems to indicate that the smallest feed increment is .196" * .9º / 360º = .00049”, but that apparently is only true if the ballscrew is a Single Start which isn't specified

too much reading, not enough thinking on your part.

"spindle" positioning meanins all axes. the ball screw grade is C5, and the screws are ground so they should adhere to the standard of 0.0005 per foor random deviation and about .0008" accumulated deviation over the length of the screw. the reality of this is that the screws are of decent quality from taiwan, and will be somewhere in that range but may be a little over or under and each axis might be a little different. this goes for all machines really, which is qhy there are grades up to C0 which cost much money. P5 is a bearing grade and has nothing directly to do with the ball screw. the ball screw's support bearings are p5 grade, which means they will rotate concentricallt withing a certain measurement. p5 is high enough precision that it will make no measurable difference in positioning. single and double or quad start screws make no difference to the specification. the screws on the nm200 are 5mm pitch, them move 5mm per turn. thats all you need to know. 5mm is of course governed by the accuracy grade ad will need to be calibrated. it may be 5.01, or 4.98mm per turn. this overall pitch deviation is independant of the point to point precision specified earlier.

repeatability is by far the more important number though. 0.00025 is the tolerance for the spindle to end up in the same place each time. this means backlash and compression and flex in the ball screw dont add up to more then that measurement. in my experience this is met easily on the nm200. the reason this is more improtant is because absolute precision is easily compensated for, as long as the position repeats each time. so you can set the machine up with calibration to be positionally accurate under 0.0005", assuming you have the ability to measure and calibrate correctly (its a hell of alot harder than you might imagine).


there are a number of other sources of both inacuracy flex and play in the machine (any machine). 1st up on these bench machines you have the dovetails, or in some cases linear rails.

dovetails are usually fairly straight on better machines, however they have a degree of play in them. in the x and y this amounts to a few tenths because you are cutting in the centre of rotation on the table. generally a non issue but could contribute to chatter in certain spots of the table. at the ends of the travel in the x the table will cantelever under its own weight, and the work pice could move up a few tenths or even .001" depending on how the gibs are set up and how wide the saddle is. the nm200 has a massively wide saddle so this usually doesnt cause a problem. the tormach 1100 is pretty wide too. these things can also contribute to the x and y ebing out of square to each other by minute amounts - assuming they there squared well to begin with. i think if you are within .001 per 6" youre doing well on most of these small machines.

if the machine is linear railed, that eliminates play in most cases, but there will be a degree of spongyness as you are bearing on tiny points. the rails themselves are limited in precision by grade. the grade used on most of these small mills like the novakon and how mau will be straight and parallel to about 0.001" per foot.

dovetail columns (z axis) will throw some more monkey wrenches into the mix because the heads cantelevers down and any play in the short z saddle is magnified at the tool. you can generally assume the head will "sag" about .001" or even more on the better machines. this comes into play as backlash when the head changes direction. it becomes even more critical when you realise that the tool si changing angle, not just vertical position. when you are milling with a long tool of 5", this can put the tip of the tool out a thou or more just from retracting the tool. youll see this when cutting pocket - the tool with leave a mark on the side of the pocket suring retraction.

on top of that, theres the squareness of the column to the table, which should be within .001" per foot, and tram, which si the squareness of the spindle nose to the table. this is usually the most important and also somewhat easy to adjust and measure by the user. most people are happy with .0005" over an 8" swept circle.

then theres spindle runout. one a typical cheap mill, the spindle is going to be within 0.001" at 4" or so from the spindle not. thats considered "good".

now theres the steppers. they are usually 1.8 degrees per step, or 200 steps per rotation. thats .025mm or .001" movement per step on a 5mm pitch screw. gecko drives will micro step the motor gettign 10 times the steps, however the micro steps arent precise. they should be repeatable, however youd have to home the machine to the precise step of the motor to calibrate and that might not be possible depending on the type of home switches used.

so this is JUST the machine and its intricacies.

other things to consider is the squareness of a vise, the fact that end mills are usually only precise to .001" of the listed diametre, that even quality tool holders compound the runout of your spindle, that everything flexes, that the clamps and vise with distort the workpiece, that thermal expansion in the work could change its shape dramatically, that you actually have to learn the art how to measure things under .001" and a host of other factors.

THEN you have your chosen task...

cutting anything 5" deep, in steel, with any degree of precision requires alot of measuring gear, setup and specialised tools. you dont just grab a 5" long and mill and have at it. youll end up with a tapered and distorted mess.

youll also need to stress relieve a36 after rough cutting that much stock away, and yes, as people have said, most likely GRIND the critical areas after maching like everyones mentioned here.

were not here to joke or have a laugh at your expense, but its been clear so far you are not here to learn anything, even though you seem to have little to no practical knowledge.

[Caprirs]

Rockn-roll, you are in for some very expensive lessons in the world of metalworking because you are sure you are right and the entire metalworking industry is wrong. It is clear you have already decided what you want to do.

You asked for input/advice from experienced people. You got something contrary to your preconceived ideas and have fought, rejected, and insulted those who tried to help.

[Rockn-Roll]

as a learning experience you should do the same. except put your hand on the part and tool to measure the temperatures. make sure you do the ground one first cause you might not have any skin left after touching the milled one.

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your post after this paragraph...you have absolutely no technical knowledge concerning materials and machining processes...and the temperature measuring technique of a child.

When a part is milled large volumes of material are removed from the part...that material has bond energy. When you grind that material into millions of particles you are releasing that bond energy into the surrounding area...which is going to be your part, tool, and surrounding air. If you use a flood coolant you can remove the majority of that energy and prevent the resulting heat from concentrating around the tool. But, the primary means of managing heat is with the machining process and for 100's of years the process of choice is by removing the largest chips possible from the work piece.

I'll explain it so even a child will understand. If you want to cut 1" off of the end of a 5"x5" section of steel bar stock the most efficient way is to make just one cut. That 1 cut will produce a specific amount of heat. If you take that 1" chunk that was removed and make hundreds more cuts on it of the same depth i.e. keep cutting it in half and then those halves into halves etc. and grind it into little bits then you will be producing hundreds of times more heat. Just tell that to a child and have them run your machinery...because they will know more about machining processes than you.

[Rockn-Roll]

Rockn-roll, you are in for some very expensive lessons in the world of metalworking because you are sure you are right and the entire metalworking industry is wrong. It is clear you have already decided what you want to do.

You asked for input/advice from experienced people. You got something contrary to your preconceived ideas and have fought, rejected, and insulted those who tried to help.

I've made it clear that I don't want to discuss anything except machine tools that can position a 5"x5"x5" part with +/.0005" of precision and has a 2HP spindle motor. Yes...I've decided that I want a machine with that precision and power. No, I didn't ask for advice...read my posts...I don't want advice in this thread. "Advice" is frequently subjective and can lead to heated discussions with one member saying one thing and other members saying something else...members get insulted and it frequently gets out of hand. Discussions such as that may cause respectable machinists from posting in this thread...I've already received a private message which leads me to believe that this is what is happening now in this thread. I'm asking the cnczone admins for advice on how to keep this thread on topic, but for right now the only thing I can do is continue to ask that no discussions occur that is not directly related to the identification of machine tools which a +/-.0005" precision and a 2HP spindle motor for $10,000 or less.

I definitely will want some advice later and have purchased a Gold Membership to support the forum. I'll be around for everyone to learn something from me if they are willing to listen, and to attempt to convince me I'm wrong or provide me with a lesson or two. I'm learning a lot and will benefit from the knowledge of the cnczone forum members.

But, please...not in this thread! I don't know how else to make that clear.

Right now I want to see if there are any machine tools with +/-.0005" precision and a 2HP spindle motor for less than or equal to $10,000...if there isn't then I can raise my budget, but that's my decision. The last thing I want to do is start with a large budget of something like $100,000 because then I will find lots of machines that far exceed my needs and would ruin me financially. I've currently allocated a budget of $10,000 for a machine tool with +/-.0005" precision and will continue to search for such a machine until this thread has no new posts for 2 weeks or more.

Tormach has been mentioned, and I've exchanged several emails with them. They have indicated that their machines are not capable of making cuts with +/-.0005" precision. It's either +/-.002" or +/-.001" depending on which salesman you talk to...and those two specs are hugely different.

When I asked about the components to see whether there's something that I can retrofit such as the CNC equipment or ball screws, they indicate that the components are better than HAAS and have .0001" precision. That does not add up. It's becoming clear to me that machines with a $10,000 price tag are nothing more than $2,000 machines with better marketing and sales.

[arizonavideo]

I added a tool changer and upgraded my mill with a FM45 face mill and I now can stay to withing .001" on most parts. It took me a bit to make the video but I think it was worth it.

I had my brother do the voice over..

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SUQKGu7F5w&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]YouTube - Glacern Machine Tools - CNC Milling Products Showcase 2009[/nomedia]

[ihavenofish]

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your post after this paragraph...you have absolutely no technical knowledge concerning materials and machining processes...and the temperature measuring technique of a child.

When a part is milled large volumes of material are removed from the part...that material has bond energy. When you grind that material into millions of particles you are releasing that bond energy into the surrounding area...which is going to be your part, tool, and surrounding air. If you use a flood coolant you can remove the majority of that energy and prevent the resulting heat from concentrating around the tool. But, the primary means of managing heat is with the machining process and for 100's of years the process of choice is by removing the largest chips possible from the work piece.

I'll explain it so even a child will understand. If you want to cut 1" off of the end of a 5"x5" section of steel bar stock the most efficient way is to make just one cut. That 1 cut will produce a specific amount of heat. If you take that 1" chunk that was removed and make hundreds more cuts on it of the same depth i.e. keep cutting it in half and then those halves into halves etc. and grind it into little bits then you will be producing hundreds of times more heat. Just tell that to a child and have them run your machinery...because they will know more about machining processes than you.

alot of words, unfortunately none of them are meaningful other than to furthur show that you know nothing yet want to learn nothing.

i guess theres no more point to this thread. have fun.

[ihavenofish]

Tormach has been mentioned, and I've exchanged several emails with them. They have indicated that their machines are not capable of making cuts with +/-.0005" precision. It's either +/-.002" or +/-.001" depending on which salesman you talk to...and those two specs are hugely different.

When I asked about the components to see whether there's something that I can retrofit such as the CNC equipment or ball screws, they indicate that the components are better than HAAS and have .0001" precision. That does not add up. It's becoming clear to me that machines with a $10,000 price tag are nothing more than $2,000 machines with better marketing and sales.

it does add up perfectly, but you need to read whats being said here and lose the ego. precision is more than the written ball screw grade. tormach uses C3 screws, which indeed are as good or better than whats used on a standard haas.

haas gives an absolute precision spec of .001" per foot on most machines if i recall. most large budget machines like haas will be the same. DMG - "the best of the best" - will give you a positional guarantee of .0004" anywhere on the table. they will claim 0.0002" with glass scales, linear motors and laser tool measuring. by then you are in the half a million dollar range.

and all that STILL doesnt mean your part will come out that precise.

this is why people are jumping on you here. you havent yet figured out what youre asking so you cant get the answer you want.

[CarbideBob]

While you have identified a few of the simple things involved in machine tool accuracy (balls screw quality, minimum command resolution, minimum step response, bearing quality) there is a whole lot more involved in machine accuracy.

Things like machine base size (the structure bends and deflects as the tables move and as cutting take place.
Spacing and placement of the ways which affect how square of a structure you can build.
Thermal expansion differences in parts as spindle housings and ballscrews heat up during use.
Dynamic stiffness of the spindle and tool joint connection when cutting from opposite directions and about a hundred other things that you only learn after 30 years of designing machines.

Assuming the machine has adequate resolution you just need repeatability to make tight tolerance parts. You cut oversize then bring the part into size by tweaking the code and/or tool offsets.

If you want to put a part on the machine and run code straight from the model and hold a thou. you need to add at least one zero to your price range.
You will need a very stiff machine, HSK tooling, a built in automatic tool measuring device (the tolerance on the cutting tool will eat up your thou all by itself), linear scales and a measuring probe. If you were willing to live with very light finishing cuts (read very slow cycles) you could pull this off for about a quarter million or so.

You are correct in that you need a machine that repeatably position to .0001 if you want to hold .001 but you don't need accuracy better than .005 as you adjust the machine to the correct part size.
A good machinist can hold .001 on a worn out B-port with .050 backlash in the acme screws that are only accurate to .005, worn out old bearings on the screw ends, and .010 squareness error in the table.
Bob

[DareBee]

Very well said Bob. You have nicely elaborated on what others have been trying to say.

Considering the correctness of your statement, you had best be prepared to be told-off by the OP.

[BBchevy396_]

Wow.... I cant believe I wasted my time reading this thread. By mentally omitting the posts from the OP, it has been very informative, and for that, I thank everyone that contributed!
Just another example of a failure of our higher educational system producing experts that know everything, yet have done, and can do, nothing.
Too bad he/she skipped etiquette class to be on the debate team.

I'm still trying to figure out why, if he/she can prove every professional here wrong, he/she isn't already doing it, and why he/she even needed to ask any questions.
Self confidence issues?

Regarding the OP's employment/pay rate issues in his/her area. Dont worry about moving, employers everywhere will quickly be able to determine his/her worth to their companies.

If I could make one last suggestion that may be more valuable to him/her than any previous post in this thread. Find an anti-college somewhere, and uneducate him/herself to mitigate the damage that has been done. Then, with a clean slate, listen and learn from the professionals and experts here that are trying to get through his/her thick skull, and he/she will go far!
I'd wish you luck on your endeavor, but have a feeling that you became an expert in making your own. Please feel free to educate us on how smart your professor was in "Luck making 101".




"It makes me mad when I go to all the trouble of having Marta cook up about a hundred drumsticks, then the guy at the Marineland says, "You can't throw chicken to the dolphins. They eat fish." Sure they eat fish, if that's all you give them. Man, wise up."

[Ed from NY]

Oh well.

This is a simple question: What machine of 10,000 USD can hold 0.001" precision over a 5x5x5" work envelope?

And has a simple answer: None.

Everyone seems to agree on that, but the OP can not accept the reasoning behind that answer. Let him buy the $10K or $50K machine of his choice and learn on his own.

Gosh, we do not even know (or at least I did not keep track of) what he plans on making.

May be just wants to make... like... really big dice

[Rockn-Roll]

Thanks for posting arizonavideo. I watched the video...but without sound since it is now 6AM and didn't want to wake anyone. The machine being used in the video is most likely way more than what I am looking for...I'm only interested in machines that are no more than $10,000. And also a single tool bit won't help me since I don't have a machine available to drive it. I am adding the Glacern Machine Tools web site to my list of tool suppliers though.

For you others...I've read a couple of posts where a machinist will claim to be able to turn parts within .001" with a machine that doesn't have that good a precision. There's also posts where machinists claim that a part with .001" precision requires a machine with 10 times the precision (.0001"). That kind of information would be best to discuss in another thread...I'm not interested in machining operations or what skills others have or their feelings about my skills.

This thread is only here to see if there are any machine tools with a precision of .001" that can mill A36 Steel and have a minimum 5"x5"x5" axis movement for no more than $10,000. If you don't understand what that means then please don't post anything. It's obvious that there are hundreds of variations on what is considered a machines' precision...that's not what I want discussed here...if you want to discuss the various ways to communicate a machine's precision then please start your own thread.

One important thing I've learned from the unnecessary chatter...machine tool marketing and salesmen...and even the machinists who run them...cannot be trusted to provide an accurate precision for their machines...they will say anything to sell a machine or their skills. Thus, I won't be able to determine a machine's capability unless I actually measure it myself. Thanks to those of you who remained objective and suggested a machine for consideration.

[Rockn-Roll]

I did a quick search and found that there is a standardized test for machine tools:

ISO 230 Test code for machine tools.
Part 1: Geometric accuracy of machines operating under no-load or quasi-static conditions
Part 2: Determination of accuracy and repeatability of positioning numerically controlled axes
Part 3: Determination of thermal effects
Part 4: Circular tests for numerically controlled machine tools
Part 5: Determination of the noise emission
Part 6: Determination of positioning accuracy on body and face diagonals (Diagonal displacement tests)
Part 7: Geometric accuracy of axes of rotation
Part 8: Vibrations
Part 9: Estimation of measurement uncertainty for machine tool tests according to series ISO 230, basic equations

This looks comprehensive and very objective to me...nothing like the subjective close to harassment posts that some members have posted. I highly recommend that machine tool manufacturers submit to some sort of standardized testing...and some of the machinists in this forum learn about them and compile a document or thread with the results. It would save new members of this forum from being ridiculed because they don't know about these standards if the existing machinists in this forum would provide some useful information to new members asking about machines instead of insulting the new members by insinuating that their skills are not up to the task unless they purchase a $100,000 machine.

I don't have a machine tool, so I can't contribute to a thread containing the results of an ISO 230 test on my machine. But, those members of this forum who have a machine tool could...if they were serious about helping other members make an informed decision on what machine tool to purchase.

[ihavenofish]

you do realise running that test would cost more than the $10000 machine you propose to run it on, not to mention few if any people on cnczone would have the equipment let alone skill to carry it out. the typical machine from china undergoes only the most basic of testing to ensure it meets a very generous tolerance - read: "it works".

so youve already gotton an answer to your basic question. its no. the answer to that question wont change no matter how much you try to belittle those far more knowledgable than yourself.

the rest of this thread is trying to explain why you asked the wrong question to allow you to actually get a machine that will serve your needs. if you arent intersted in that part, youve really come to the end of your quest.

[leggazoid]

I think the closest you can get is Mikini 1610L CNC machining center

[Rockn-Roll]

I'm finding more information by searching the web.

For example, I just found The Association For Manufacturing Technology and The American Machine Tool Distributor's Association Machine Tool Database which I am now using to search for a machine tool. The web site integrates a Request For Quote for the machine. The web site doesn't include the details on any testing; however, it does have a checkbox to require that the machine have a guarantee of performance and a textbox with which I can ask about standardized testing so I can compare their machine with others.

There's also some good information at The National Institute of Standards and Technology in regards to Machine Tool testing, measuring, and tips to increase accuracy...one of the tips is the Vortex cooling technology that I read about in another thread in this forum. This forum is very useful...it's just this thread that has posts from members who refuse to stay on subject...which...as I keep saying...is locating new machine tools.

There's also an interesting graphic of the USMTC Machine Tool Sales which includes Average price and Unit Sales of machine tools...not much help to me really, but interesting none-the-less.

[Rockn-Roll]

I think the closest you can get is Mikini 1610L CNC machining center

Thanks leggazoid...that looks very much like what I am looking for.