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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    0

    Tormach Vacuum Plate

    Everyone keeps recommending a vacuum plate for some of my small parts. I didn't realize Tormach had a smaller version of their vacuum plate that will fit on a vise.

    So hopefully at the end of this week I will be in possession of a vacuum plate and pump.

    Anyone already using the vise mount plate (please already ordered only good things )

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    Don't have one but.....

    Would really enjoy hearing how yours works. I am very interested in this because coming from a woodworking background we are constantly using vacuum to form and hold down parts as they glue up. It only seems natural to me to have a decent sized vacuum table on the mill. However I have been looking into building my own. I did not realize that Tormach has one and would also love to hear any ideas, reviews, and tips on using it on the tormach or similar machines. What would you change about it, what would you do differently? Anyone using an Air venturi in lieu of an electronic vacuum pump? Peace

    Pete

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    176

    vacuum set

    We have the vacuum set.

    1. the table works great and is a real help. Holds on to plastic and other soft materials like a charm. We use it to cut structures into PVC. It will not hold on for rather tough applications like contouring 304 or something like that. You will need hex insert screws to bolt it to the table and keep a flat surface. Still using it after all these years

    2. we were unhappy about the vacuum pump . They resell it and it shows that it is not a Tormach product imho. We continuosly had oil mist that was ejected from the housing collecting in the muffler. Unless you remember to screw off the muffler and clean it every time, the puddle explodes into the environment and/or the operator when you turn the pump back on. Tormach gave us a fix from their supplier with a fancy tubes/t-pieces assembly we had to make, but it would have costed some of the suction power. We didn't bother and ended up putting that piece of equipment in the basement and bought a nice vacuum pump on ebay.

    Other than that ... very happy with the Tormach products and the vacuum table in particular.

    benji

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    0
    Hopefully this is a new and improved pump Hope it will be a good one. I had planed on using it for a vacuum chamber as well for molding. Killing two birds with one stone.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    Here's a question...

    Having never used one of these at least on a milling machine, how do you find it holds with aluminum pieces? IS it something that you gotta cut really gingerly or it will come loose. Also how do you find the ability to hold things that have thru holes and can you machine them somehow? Can you cut a perimeter if you are careful with it.... Do you normally just lock it down to the table and then make a face cut on it or do you rely on it being flat already? I really do not know the workholding mindset with these things and would like to hear from someone who apparently uses them a lot. Peace

    Pete

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    176

    experiences with vac table

    Cutting perimeters is not a problem. we sacrifice some of the nice table surface and go 5 thou deeper than the piece. has not influenced the flatness quality so far.

    Flatness of the table/surface/piece: the plate itself is parallel within one thou over the length (as a guess). It has never been an issue for us.
    The table has square pins standing out. In the grooves around these pins you put a sealing rubber/plastic rope in a circle/ring that is within the x-y-bottom dimensions of the piece you place there. Inside this rope you open one of the suction holes. If you then place the piece onto the circle/ring and turn on the pump, the piece gets sucked down onto the square pins of the table and is therefore as parallel to the tormach table as the vacuum plate itself. (hope this description makes sense )

    Thru holes are not feasible inside the rubber band circle, otherwise the vacuum is history and the workholding follows immediately. They are feasible outside of the rubber band circle for a limited distance.

    We have had no issues with light cuts in aluminum. The vac table is a nice fixture and holds on tight, but it does not hold as tight as a vise. So if your machine starts squeeking or vibrating at the cut, chances are the cut is too heavy for the vac table. We often use it for PVC applications, but also for quick fixturing of any material that we engrave on the surface. I think you get the idea.

    benji

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    SO....

    So if you are doing perimeter work and indeed cutting thru and into the fixture .005 or so then I am assuming you are doing it in a fashion that makes the same cuts for the same parts over and again because if you just cut anywhere as in zeroing on a part and not the fixture how can you guarantee there is no loss of vacuum? I hate to ask so many questions but I just have never used one of these before and have always wondered about them. I know that it is possible to make masking fixtures for specific parts that would go on the plate but does that not also decrease holding power? I am going to try to make one of these hopefully soon. YOu said that you just make your ring as it were with the o-ring material and then remove the plug from it to allow the vacuum. Does it appear that the fixture is two pieces or did they machine into the fixture from the sides to make the matrix for the holes inside the grid to intersect each other. I was thinking that if you made it from two plates you could cut the matrix for the supply holes on one then make the grid pattern into the face of the other with the holes for the seals and then put a large o-ring groove around the perimeter and then screw the whole thing together and then face the surface off in the mill. What are your thoughts on this method? I honestly cannot afford the table they sell but I can afford some time and an inexpensive vacuum pump from northern tool. Thanks for your input here.. peace

    Pete

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    0
    pete/ Good questions and discussion.

    When you say you can't afford the table, did you see the smaller vise model? its not much more expensive than the material. Of course I realize this stuff can be fun to make, but I wanted something "proven" first. i saw the price of the larger version that fits on the table and yes, it was outside my comfort zone..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    176

    yup

    that's pretty much how it is done.

    the vacuum plate itself is actually is held to the table with the "regular" bolts. there is no vacuum holding the vac plate to the mill table ( I know you understood it this way, just making sure)

    the vac plate itself has two structures milled into it, one on the bottom and one on the top. the top has the pins and the opening (with o-rings) towards a (let's call it) vacuum chamber underneath the top surface. this chamber underneath the surface just"distributes" the vacuum to the different opening in the surface. This vacuum chamber is closed from underneath with a plastic cover that keeps it airtight. I am sure a large o-ring and a well-fit aluminum plate will do the trick very well. So the vac table is hollow inside and has a connection to the holes on the top and the hose on the side. Make sure this vac chamber spares out the bolt holes (vac plate towards mill table) and gives the sealing plate from underneath some support.

    The holes in the top plate all have o-rings in them and are blocked with a little round steel plate, I'd say 8mm diameter (diameter of hose, more is useless). What I called "ring" previously is the form that you lay out in the grooves of the top structure in order to seal the connection between part and vac table. It is a rubber-like band that is about 50 thou thicker than the grooves in the table deep. Under regular conditions it stands out a little, when the pump is on and the part in place, it gets squeezed into the grooves and the parts sits on flat.

    Concerning the setup of the parts you have multiple options:
    1. yes, mill the part and then perimeter. we do that quite often
    2. you make a stop anywhere on the vac table (we use a clamp or any regular table stops that we have
    3. many engraving jobs are close enough within 10 thou, so we align it with the help of the surface structure.
    4. do it with any alignment tool that you put in the spindle. for x-y "pump off" since you might have to move the part, for z "pump on" since the part comes down when the vacuum sets in.

    benji

  10. #10
    I have seen a vacuum table being used to hold wooden parts on cnc routers, but never imagined how any of my parts could be held on a cnc mill with one before. This video has given me several ideas!

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFOY8p1X6jQ"]YouTube - Vacuum Chuck HOW-TO[/nomedia]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dammachines View Post
    I have seen a vacuum table being used to hold wooden parts on cnc routers, but never imagined how any of my parts could be held on a cnc mill with one before. This video has given me several ideas!

    YouTube - Vacuum Chuck HOW-TO
    Thanks for that video!

    In fact those parts are almost identical to the parts I will be making..

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    154

    Cheap ones

    I considered buying a vaccum plate sometimes ago and found the following seller:

    GAL

    Much cheaper and a wide varieties of plates. I do not know the quality but the web site is well done, always a good sign.

    Christian

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    0
    Quote Originally Posted by concombrefrais View Post
    I considered buying a vaccum plate sometimes ago and found the following seller:

    GAL

    Much cheaper and a wide varieties of plates. I do not know the quality but the web site is well done, always a good sign.

    Christian
    They have some nice plates.. Like the single mounting plates they have, might be something else to play with. But they are a little higher profile than the Tormach. For placing on the vise I am not losing that much height for tools.


    I got the plate/pump in today but will be a while before I use it, but need to run it as the shipping box was opened but nothing appears damaged. lately I have gotten a coupel of packages from UPS that have been damaged, guess with the volume they handle they can't afford to be gentle

    It's well made and the pump itself is relatively quite. Compressor is a lot louder. After looking at this I can see how easy they are to make, the smaller sizes anyway. Should be easy to make some special holding plates.

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