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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    592

    Arrow

    Optical encoders are defined in different ways that make things a bit confusing.

    A 1000 LINE encoder puts out 4000 pulses per revolution (aka PPR).

    A 1000 PPR encoder has 250 lines.

    When people order encoders they are usually defining the number of lines on the encoder disk. The pulses per revolution (or count) is allways 4x the number of lines.

    The economy CUI encoders are not optical at all and are switch configurable as to the count output.

    As a line is read it goes through 4 stages (pulses) then repeats. This is how it can determine direction.
    • A on, B off
    • A on, B on
    • A off, B on
    • A off, B off


    Hope I have not confused you more. ( I did not get into the I or Z (index) channel. )

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    This is where the confusion arises, a 1000 line encoder does not put out 4000p/rev, the two quadrature pulse are used by many systems to read the 2 rising and 2 falling edges of the two quadrature pulses, hence the natural resolution of the encoder can be increased by x4 this way.
    Some system, I have an Acroloop card for e.g. that will give you the option of X1 X2 or X4 the encoder resolution by reading one, two or four pulse edges.
    The term quadrature refers to two pulses 90° apart NOT the x4 factor.
    I have seen more than a few sites and posts that state 'The x4 is why it is called a quadrature encoder', Just not true.
    The bottom line is a manufacturer lists the encoder as the basic pulses/rev as he has no idea how the end user will use the two pulses.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    Skullworks & Al,

    I want to thank both of you for the information.

    The sites I've looked at had me thinking it was the x4 because of quadrature.

    My encoders are the AMT 103 that are adjustable. < These are the CUI type aren't they? I think the AMT 103's are also single ended

    Could someone tell me the difference between differential and single ended encoders?

    There are line drivers-converter boards for the Dugong drives, that converts single ended encoders to differential.

    Thanks for all of the help, guys.

    JAckal :cheers:
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    With the exception of some Heidenhain encoders and scales, differential is usually 5v TTL standard.
    Differential also uses a standard called RS422 and has a complement pulse for each or the A B & I pulses, i.e. six output pulses, this method is used over long distance for noise immunity.
    Single ended can be a push pull output or open collector and can have a supply anywhere from 5v to 24v. The open collector generally requires a pull up resistor if there is none supplied in the destination electronics.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108
    Got back from Cleveland Clinic last Night about 10:15 pm.
    Got up at 7 am and went to Indianapolis today. Got home about 6:30 pm.
    Got the geckos 320X's mounted.I used thermal grease between the mounting
    plate and the drives. They use them on transistors for heat transfer. Started wiring up the fuse holders. Thanks for the information about encoders. that really helped. I am going to have surgery as soon as they tell me when. Wont be able to lift much for a month. Got to get fall things done soon. Got to check the wire pen outs on the encoders. All of a sudden there a ton of things to do to the Hurco. It all will be fun. Dave:banana:

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    592

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rothermel View Post
    ( Big snip )

    All of a sudden there a ton of things to do to the Hurco. It all will be fun. Dave:banana:
    Its all fun but paying the bills for the toys.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    Dave,

    Sounds like you have a plan.

    I thought running time was close on my retrofit after most of the parts came in and were mounted.

    Then I was where you are with a large what to do next list.

    Everytime something came to mind for the Hurco, it was added to the list. My list ended up being 3 pages long.
    It is down to about half that now.

    Things are going quicker now that I understand the settings better.

    Skullworks,

    I hope this machine will make enough money for me to justify what was spent on it.(chair)

    JAckal :cheers:
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    I have a lot of KM3P factory Hurco parts left over, if anyone is interested.

    e-mail or private message me.


    JAckal
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108
    Will finally got to work on the Hucro. Took the covers off the encoders. Well I got three different ones. The Z is a Renco rsc 23d. There is no pin out info. The Y I haven't looked at vary close. I had info on the X. I finally ran a new shielded cable to the encoder. Went through the Gecko set up info. Checked the encoder lights. then hooked up the step & direction. It checked out. Then we wired up the motor, powered it up, and it moved. Boy was I excited. It doesn't move as fast as it should, but I can jog it back & forth. The other axes will take a little longer. If I hook the 5 volts to the wrong pin on the encoder will it hurt anything. I will look at the Y closer tomorrow. Got to get down on the floor to see it. All ready have the limits hooked up. It was a good day. Dave

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Renco encoders hookup is fairly consistent in their wire colours, what type of encoder is it a through hole or shaft type and diameter?.
    If you post a photo I may be able to identify it.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108
    I think I have two of the encoders working. X is ok Hooked up the encoder for the y. The warning (red) light comes on when I move the axes, and then goes out and the green light comes on. Started hooking up the step & dir. shielded wires. I decided to stop and Clean up the wiring and make it permanent. I see that with the x & one y light are on with nothing connected to them. Don't know why. I know that I can make the encoders work. Haven't done much with the z axes. Got to be in South Bend at 8:30 in the morning. Don't know when I will get back. Will take pix.s when I get the wiring cleaned up. Some of the wiring is going through the open door. Just wanted to see if I could make it work. It is 11:30 pm. Good night.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108
    I cleaned up the wiring on the x & y. I think I got the 5 volts and ground switched on the y.
    Anyway I think the encoder is toast. Can I mix a 1000 ppr with a 500 ppr. I ran a new separate line to the x encoder. I will do that with the y & z. To easy to mess up. I will work on the z and leave the y set for awhile.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108
    Can I mix a 1000 ppr with a 500 ppr. I didn't realize That the new encoders are programmable. I ordered from Digikey. Will have it Monday. Servos are new to me. I ask questions, and then I find the answer was simple. Learning a lot. Dave

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    Dave,


    You can set the new encoders to 1000. The settings sheet from amt/digi-key says there are 16 different settings.

    Here is a link:

    http://products.cui.com/CUI_AMT103-V...df?fileID=4033


    Hope this helps,

    JAckal :cheers:
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108

    Smile

    Tonight I got the Z going up and down. The only problem I had
    the A & B on the encoder was reversed. I ordered a new encoder
    for the Y. I should be here Monday. If Digi-Key can sell one for $ 23.95,
    but I can get one from Hurco for over $ 300.00 Take some pix.s tomorrow.
    Still got a lot of work to do after the X,Y, and Z are working. Dave

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    Dave,

    Here are the new pics you sent me. Dave is chugging right along.

    With the Geckos mounted sideways, it is easy to wire them up. Mine are facing downward where you have to remove the plate, or lay down to wire them.

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    JAckal:wave:
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    0
    Gorgeous work. Makes me ashamed to look at the wiring I did on my KM3.

    Let me know how those Geckos and DigiKey Encoders work. I'm pretty happy with what I have right now and the price on the parts was right for the amps and encoders, but I may need to replace at some point.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    300
    Efinkg,

    That is why I am moving kind of slow on mine. I am afraid once it gets running, the wiring won't ever get cleaned up.

    After every new wire or cable is added, I look at the whole thing and ask if it would be easy to trace something down later.

    Sure, now while it is fresh on my mind, it seems like no problem.

    2 years from now I will be like "UUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH".:drowning:

    I am making a road map of the wiring. and a separate page for the X axis, Y, & Z.

    All wires are numbered on each end.

    Any multi-strand cable is labeled such as:

    Cable #77- z axis encoder-
    White wire- XYZ terminal
    Black Wire- PDQ terminal
    Green Wire- 123 terminal
    Red wire- 321 terminal
    Blue wire- not used

    Maybe this will be easy enough for me to interpret later on.


    JAckal:cheers:
    Everything is bio-degradable, if you run over it enough times with the lawnmower.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    0
    Very true, I'm worried about the same to some extent as well. And since I'm a college student at school far from home, I am concerned when I get home I'll be entirely confused what I did. It's utterly wonderful when you are done, however. I can CAD, CAM, and send the file over, and everything just works. It's a great feeling when you can actually make things. Best of luck!

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    108

    Smile

    On the contactors / overloads. I took the overloads off the contactors.
    I didn't know how to hook them up. Curious as what you guys did? Do I need to have them in there? Couldn't turn on the spindle with them inline. I to am making a map of the wiring. I have looked at things that I have done years
    ago, and don't have a clue. I really like everybody's input. Thanks, Dave

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