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  1. #1
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    Apr 2011
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    Lightbulb plasma table using CandCnC electronics

    im starting a new system build and wanted to post info about my build and get help with what ever speed bumps i encounter along the way, if this is not the proper forum to post about my system in please point me in the correct direction.

    electronics

    CandCnc.com

    - Dragon-Cut 620-5
    ---DRAGON CUT w/Rotary Wizard and TubeSlicer
    ---DTHC II Module
    ---DCP-01

    linear motion

    - Hiwin track

    gear rack

    - not yet decided

    frame

    -3x3 steel 3/16 wall

    software

    - autocad 2011

    - sheet cam TNG

    - mach3

    - ink scape



    as i start building the system ill ad more info. at this time i have steel, electronics, linear motion already to go.



    now to read all the manuals -

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    110
    Sounds similar to a table I just built. Please keep us posted!


    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/precis...ladrunner.html


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by tig-racer View Post
    im starting a new system build and wanted to post info about my build and get help with what ever speed bumps i encounter along the way, if this is not the proper forum to post about my system in please point me in the correct direction.

    electronics

    CandCnc.com

    - Dragon-Cut 620
    ---DRAGON CUT w/Rotary Wizard and TubeSlicer
    ---DTHC II Module
    ---DCP-01

    linear motion

    - Hiwin track

    gear rack

    - not yet decided

    frame

    -3x3 steel 3/16 wall

    as i start building the system ill ad more info. at this time i have steel, electronics, linear motion already to go.



    now to read all the manuals -
    I got the same kit, basically, as you did 4 axis DragonCut w/ 620 motors. Lots of good info in the manuals on CD that CandCNC include. I got the current sensor probe (Digital Current Probe). Don't skip the calibration of that...and on mine the sticker on the cover had the words "cal" and "test" but there was no hole for anything so I didn't think anything of it...until I read more in the manuals...oops...I cut a hole in the sticker and, yup, there's a button inside the unit that corresponds to a hole in the case...just not in the sticker. That helped, once it was calibrated.

    I got gear racks from Moore Gear, 20 deg. pressure angle and pinions from McMaster (sold me Boston Gear). The motors, if you've not noticed already, have 3/8" shafts, not 1/4" which a lot of NEMA 23 motors seem to have...which bit me in the butt since I ordered pulleys for 1/4" shafts prior to getting the CandCNC kit and finding I needed 3/8" bore on the pulleys...had to drill mine out.

    I think you'll be happy with the CandCNC stuff, I think it works very well and the screens customized for Mach3 are good, I think.

    Tips (must haves): floating torch head (I didn't know how important that was and didn't have it originally), right post processor selected in SheetCAM for the floating torch head (MP3000-THC-Zref, which I had to manually copy from one of the CD's to the posts directory for SheetCAM). And most importantly, hook up an E stop button...I put mine on a cord so I can have it in my hand when the table is running...no diving for a button on the table or trying to click a button on screen when the #$#$ hits the fan. A water table is highly recommended...that helps a bunch on dust/debris/smoke.

    Good luck.

    --HC

  4. #4
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    Apr 2011
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    thanks for the tips. i was a bit shocked to see how much larger the shaft on these stepper motors were than my previous system.

    HC B what type of "E" switch did you use? i need to get some limit switches and a "E" switch on order.

    most likely i will get my track/gear from McMaster as im able to pick my order up making it easy to get larger than average parts easily.

    im not sure yet if i want to run a pulley system on my stepper motors or some kind of gear reduction system. i like the PLANETARY GEARBOX setups i have seen but they are a bit costly.

    this is going to be my 2nd CNC plasma system. my last CNC system used another brand controller and worked great but was limited by the manufacture a bit. i have sold my previous system and i look forward to having a more end user friendly controller on this new system.

    i plan to have the new table be roughly 8'-6" wide by 12'-6" long with 9-12" of Z-axis below the gantry.

    ill also be running a water table probably 3-4" deep.

    i plan to run 2" slats supported at each end and down the center of the table.

    im looking forward to having an automated torch height controller. not sure yet what ill build for the "floating head" but i have a few ideas rolling around.

    i hope once the system is up and running to get an router attached to the gantry and a pneumatic scribe. i have yet to figure out if the sheet cam software can handle properly making g-code for offset tools.

    im currently working on picking out an rotary of some kind for the 5th axis motor to control.

    this system will be used to do mild product of specialty automotive parts and custom doors/gates for entry to homes/property. if all gos well id like to get the system to do some aluminum work but that's down the road quiet a bit.

    i see the sheet cam and mach3 as my biggest hurdles to over come as i have never used either of these before. i have 15 yrs of drafting/design experience with AutoCad and hope the new software play nice with the files i create in autocad.

    i hope to see how others have set up there CandCnC products.

    are there many CandCnC owners on this site?

    once i brake ground (fire up the grinder) on this project ill post some pics. at this time its just a shop corner full of things i try to keep others from staking car parts on.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    0
    Just as an option for your floating Z, since you mentioned it: I went with this one.

    CNC Routers, Routers for Wood, Routers for Plastic and CNC Plasma Cutter

    I can't say too much about it yet since my table isn't complete, but it's a pretty nice looking piece anyway. If you want more travel they offer larger ones too.

    They sell it cheaper on Ebay than on their website. When I was ready to order I called and asked them about that, and they sold it to me for an even better price.
    Carl

  6. #6
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Lean View Post
    Just as an option for your floating Z, since you mentioned it: I went with this one.

    CNC Routers, Routers for Wood, Routers for Plastic and CNC Plasma Cutter

    I can't say too much about it yet since my table isn't complete, but it's a pretty nice looking piece anyway. If you want more travel they offer larger ones too.

    They sell it cheaper on Ebay than on their website. When I was ready to order I called and asked them about that, and they sold it to me for an even better price.
    thanks for the heads up, i am only about 18 miles from their shop. i wonder if i can go down and check out some of their products in person?

  7. #7
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    Apr 2011
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    0
    im looking at using the Rack and Pinion Drive system from cncrouterparts



    anyone have experience with this drive system? seems fairly straight forward and solid.

  8. #8
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    Apr 2011
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    stopped by the office of K2CNC today, they were great to meet with in person and were even nice enough to give my wife and i a quick tour of their shop. i decided to go with an 6" Z-axis for my new CandCnC build. i should be picking up the new Z-axis in a few days.



    i look forward to buying more products from K2 as time gos on with my CNC projects. id def suggest anyone looking for an product of any kind to give K2cnc a call. the K2 crew were very professional and had great things to say about the CandCnC products ill be using with the K2 Z-axis.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2011
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    One thing I noticed with mine, is that I had to trim about 1/4" off the length of the motor shaft for the Z-axis. I'm using the same 620 oz. motors you are, so you'll probably need to do the same. Just so you aren't surprised like I was.
    Carl

  10. #10
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Lean View Post
    One thing I noticed with mine, is that I had to trim about 1/4" off the length of the motor shaft for the Z-axis. I'm using the same 620 oz. motors you are, so you'll probably need to do the same. Just so you aren't surprised like I was.
    thanks for the heads up on the motor fitment issue. i had planed on taking one of my motors down to the K2 shop with me when i go down to pick up the Z-axis. i hope any fitment issues will be addressed on the spot.

  11. #11
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    Apr 2011
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    i picked up the Z-axis today and its quality is 2nd to none. the guys at K2 were great to deal with during this purchase. K2 was nice enough to fit my motor and adjust the shaft to help ensure perfect fitment.

    the Z-axis is so nice im going to have to get someone to make an mounting plate of equal quality for it. i don't have the ability to do any extensive machining work with aluminum at this time, once i have an part drawn up in CAD ill have to find a shop to make it for me.

    lots more parts to collect.....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by tig-racer View Post
    thanks for the tips. i was a bit shocked to see how much larger the shaft on these stepper motors were than my previous system.

    HC B what type of "E" switch did you use? i need to get some limit switches and a "E" switch on order.

    most likely i will get my track/gear from McMaster as im able to pick my order up making it easy to get larger than average parts easily.

    im not sure yet if i want to run a pulley system on my stepper motors or some kind of gear reduction system. i like the PLANETARY GEARBOX setups i have seen but they are a bit costly.

    this is going to be my 2nd CNC plasma system. my last CNC system used another brand controller and worked great but was limited by the manufacture a bit. i have sold my previous system and i look forward to having a more end user friendly controller on this new system.

    i plan to have the new table be roughly 8'-6" wide by 12'-6" long with 9-12" of Z-axis below the gantry.

    ill also be running a water table probably 3-4" deep.

    i plan to run 2" slats supported at each end and down the center of the table.

    im looking forward to having an automated torch height controller. not sure yet what ill build for the "floating head" but i have a few ideas rolling around.

    i hope once the system is up and running to get an router attached to the gantry and a pneumatic scribe. i have yet to figure out if the sheet cam software can handle properly making g-code for offset tools.

    im currently working on picking out an rotary of some kind for the 5th axis motor to control.

    this system will be used to do mild product of specialty automotive parts and custom doors/gates for entry to homes/property. if all gos well id like to get the system to do some aluminum work but that's down the road quiet a bit.

    i see the sheet cam and mach3 as my biggest hurdles to over come as i have never used either of these before. i have 15 yrs of drafting/design experience with AutoCad and hope the new software play nice with the files i create in autocad.

    i hope to see how others have set up there CandCnC products.

    are there many CandCnC owners on this site?

    once i brake ground (fire up the grinder) on this project ill post some pics. at this time its just a shop corner full of things i try to keep others from staking car parts on.
    Tig, I'm sorry for the delay...I don't frequent the boards much and I've not logged into the e-mail account that I get notices on...sorry.

    I used a regular rocker style switch that stays in either of two positions (open or closed). It's designed for panel mounting through a rectangular hole but I put blade connectors on each end of a wire pair and then used some cut-short zip ties as stiffeners and taped it all up...looks like a cylinder of tape with a rocker switch at the top...the cable it's on is about three feet...right next to the table...long enough I can step away from the workstation and see what's going on with it in my hand. The switch is nothing fancy, just something I had lying around. I find it more convenient for what I'm doing to just use it instead of having a sprinkling of switches around the table. Whatever you do, make sure some easy-to-operate-by-touch cutoff is at hand when you first start cutting...unless you're way more lucky than I am, you'll need it a few times before you get things right. YYMV.


    The pulley/belts I have, once the belt is tight, do not seem to have any appreciable backlash and are cheap compared to gear boxes I've seen.

    Tom at CandCNC.com has been great, responded quickly and expertly to the few problems I've had. *NOT ONE* problem I've had was because of CandCNC or their products...*all* my problems have turned out to be mistakes soley of my own creation or shortcomings.

    I like the 12' 6" because you can, I seem to recall, buy sheet metal 12' long...but why the 8' + The largest sheet metal (or plate, depending on what you like to call it) I can get and have seen is 6'. If the Y axis runs the short length and the X axis runs the long length (which is how mine is setup), going to 8+ feet instead of, say, 6', will add weight to your gantry and give more chance for tail-whip, IMHO.

    And not trying to give you static at all...just asking...why the long Z travel?

    Water's good...I think I said this in my last post...but if I didn't, buy the right stuff...sodium nitrite (used for curing meats, I found stuff for curing salmon eggs that claims it's 99% pure) and get the physan 20...I found mine online at some head shop selling 'ponics stuff. :-/

    My 2" slats are supported at the edges and with 2 runs down the middle equally spaced. They are offset so that the 2" metal is curved like an S for rigidity...a really good idea because I beat the bottom of the tank down in two locations for draining so the slats are about 1/2" from the bottom of the tank.

    I got some linear slide stuff from McMaster...darned expensive...about 80 bucks for a 12" guide and one slide block...but it works. I would love to know what you come up with as the setup I have has some play in it...but it's way better than no floating torch...saves me a TON of time and aggravation.

    I'd also like to know how you make out with offset tooling...I set my Z carriage up for two tools...plasma/oxy-acetylene and a plate marker...just haven't put in the plate marker yet.

    Don't cut aluminum over water...if you believe what I've heard, it makes an explosion hazard (maybe producing hydrogen gas?). I dunno if it's true, but I'd definitely get some expert answers on that just in case.

    I've tried to use AutoCAD a few times and get P*#$#D off everytime I try to draw a rectangle and drag a corner to make it bigger and I get a polygon that's not square...arrgghhh....but I got SheetCAM and Mach3 with no troubles...so...if you can do AC you should have no troubles with those two. Cake.

    I'm back to work now...first cuts on the table in almost 2 weeks...need more parts. I'll be back around to check in and read the later posts.

    Good luck. Hope this helps.

    --HC

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by tig-racer View Post
    im looking at using the Rack and Pinion Drive system from cncrouterparts



    anyone have experience with this drive system? seems fairly straight forward and solid.
    I don't think I mentioned that I bought some stuff from cncrouterparts.com and if I did I apologize for the redundant info.

    First, I have bought a number of items from Ahren at CRP and the stuff showed up and works well. I got the extended slides and regular slide, the 5 start anti-backlash nut, some extra bearings for the slides, and an anti-backlash coupler for the Z axis. Ahren bored the coupler out for me as the site (at that time, he says he's going to offer this soon) only offered(s) a 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch coupler. He didn't charge me to do the boring and the job was well done. I'd recommend buying stuff from this guy.

    That said, the only thing I see about that drive reduction is that the gear/pulley combo, which you posted a pic of, seems to be made of aluminum. I, personally, am (and was) concerned about running aluminum against a steel rack in terms of how long would it last. Not cussin' it, not saying it won't last a lifetime, just saying what I personally thought. Here's a link to my PB album(s). You can look through some pics of how I implemented my drives and other PTable workings and general other, unrelated, stuff. Skip the other stuff, check the drives. They work very well for me.

    Again, the aluminum may last a lifetime. The gear/pulley combo may not be aluminum so verify that. And I'd not cuss CRP or Ahren, I've been very happy with the parts I got from him and the customer service I received.

    --HC


    *** EDIT ***

    Arrgghhh...I'm a Dumba$$... Here's the link: http://s938.photobucket.com/home/nunyabusiness11

    Sorry...I do that crap...like sending an e-mail and forgetting the attachment. :-/

    --HC

  14. #14
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    Apr 2011
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    while im going over my list of items i need to get before i can start using the system i came up with a question im unable to find info about.

    is it possible to operate MACH3 with an wireless controller? i had my previous CNC plasma system setup so i could use an logitech wireless game controller to operate my system. i have never used MACH3 or any CandCnC products so i figured id ask if anyone has seen this done before? if so could you post up whatever info you have about wireless operation of the MACH3 and CandCnC bladerunner system.



    on my previous system i used an logitech usb Wingman game controller and an joy stick to keyboard program to make things work. was able to cycle thru each of the screens, jog the gantry, set my Zero coordinates, E-stop and such. i hope its possible to get MACH3 to do these jobs and more.

    thanks

  15. #15
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    Apr 2011
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    pulled the trigger today on some parts from CNCRouterParts was nice to see that they offer a mounting plate for the K2 Z-axis. granted the mounting plate isn't really built specificity for my application its at least a good starting point for me.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    2415
    Quote Originally Posted by tig-racer View Post
    while im going over my list of items i need to get before i can start using the system i came up with a question im unable to find info about.

    is it possible to operate MACH3 with an wireless controller? i had my previous CNC plasma system setup so i could use an logitech wireless game controller to operate my system. i have never used MACH3 or any CandCnC products so i figured id ask if anyone has seen this done before? if so could you post up whatever info you have about wireless operation of the MACH3 and CandCnC bladerunner system.

    on my previous system i used an logitech usb Wingman game controller and an joy stick to keyboard program to make things work. was able to cycle thru each of the screens, jog the gantry, set my Zero coordinates, E-stop and such. i hope its possible to get MACH3 to do these jobs and more.

    thanks

    I have never been comfortable with running a plasma CNC table with wireless anything. Especially E-stop. You can use any game controller with MACH3 and most controllers have software that lets you map keyboard strokes (even mult-key strokes) to buttons on the controller. I have played with the Logitech game controllers with MACH3 and they work fine.

    In plasma you are dealing with conditions that may be a problem for IR or UV based communications. Just the fact you have to be pointing at the reciever makes using it somewhat restrictive.

    There are some functions using the DTHC that would be nice to have on a hand control so you could set things or adjust them as you cut. Having access to run macros is also a plus.

    We are in early alpha testing on our next generation Pendant. It's not wireless. It uses a reliable protocol (RS485) for noise immune operation across a common UTP CAT5 cable and has a hardwired Emergency Stop button. It will work up to 100 ft away. It interfaces to the PC (MACH) through a USB adapter.

    We will be making an announcement this month.

    In my estimation the real value of a pendant is to be able to control the setup and cutting process entirely from the pendant so you are not married to the keyboard and mouse.

    TOM caudle
    www.CandCNC.com

  17. #17
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    tom, thanks for information. i will keep an eye on your web site for the new pendant to be posted.

    HC B - i was told by CNCrouter parts that the pulleys are made of aluminum and the drive gear is steel.

  18. #18
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    Oct 2005
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    378
    tig-racer,

    I am not familiar with Mach or Torchheads system. However, I do have a Dynatorch and have been using a wireless Logitec control for 6 years now with Zero problems.

    It gets used constantly for setting location and dry runs. I can only imagine what a pain dragging a cord around my 5 x 10 table would be. I have also noticed the Torchmate guys are starting to run wireless. Here is a thread from their forum.

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...reless+control

    Magma-joe

  19. #19
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    Apr 2011
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    received my order from CNCrouterparts.com today, and its top notch quality. i am shocked how well every part fits together. seeing how well built and simple the drive system is makes me feel a bit retarded for what i had on my previous CNC system. not that my previous system was bad but it was no where as nice as the parts i just received.

    next on my list is to get my hands on some 80/20 products. once i get the 80/20 parts i should be ready to start building the frame and support table.

  20. #20
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    Mar 2011
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    27
    Quote Originally Posted by tig-racer View Post
    while im going over my list of items i need to get before i can start using the system i came up with a question im unable to find info about.

    is it possible to operate MACH3 with an wireless controller? i had my previous CNC plasma system setup so i could use an logitech wireless game controller to operate my system. i have never used MACH3 or any CandCnC products so i figured id ask if anyone has seen this done before? if so could you post up whatever info you have about wireless operation of the MACH3 and CandCnC bladerunner system.



    on my previous system i used an logitech usb Wingman game controller and an joy stick to keyboard program to make things work. was able to cycle thru each of the screens, jog the gantry, set my Zero coordinates, E-stop and such. i hope its possible to get MACH3 to do these jobs and more.

    thanks
    In my setup I use two keyboards, one at the console, one via a USB extension cable. I have the one extended one so I can walk around my table (62" by 146" total with 60" x 126" cuttable) and position the X and Y axis. I then walk to the console and other keyboard to actually reset X and Y since I don't (ashamedly) know what keystrokes to use to reset them so I just use the mouse at the console. I don't use a remote anything for anything other than the e-stop on the cord. If I need to adjust the voltage for the THC mid-cut I do that with the mouse at the console.

    As far as wireless goes...Mach 3 has a joystick plugin which should work with any Windows joystick, I think. I have bought a USB joystick but not connected it yet. That said, if Windows can see it/work with it, it should work, wireless or otherwise. However, I agree with what Tom (Torchhead) said about not relying on wirless for the e-stop. You've got lots of EMF going on that might mess with wireless and electronics...whether IR or otherwise. I only use two remotes...the keyboard on the long USB cable for pre-cut positioning (to be replaced by the joystick, maybe) and the e-stop switch which is hard-wired to the CandCNC box.

    Tom (Torchead) is the guy behind CandCNC and the brains behind that whole setup I've found so useful and which I think you will, too. He really knows this stuff well so it'd be worth your while to heed his advice/input.

    That said, my simple extra keyboard and "pendant" e-stop have, and still do, work very well for me.

    HTH

    --HC

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