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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Mazak, Mitsubishi, Mazatrol > Mazak MYSTERY. HOW do you clear this ANNOYING Mazak alarm??!!! NOBODY KNOWS!!
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  1. #1
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    Mazak MYSTERY. HOW do you clear this ANNOYING Mazak alarm??!!! NOBODY KNOWS!!

    There is an ANNOYING alarm that comes up on Mazak mills that NOBODY I have EVER known, knows how to clear without a minimum of 20 minutes of experimental button pushing in pure desperation to get the machine back up and running again.

    The alarm occurs when an operator presses the "Reset" button while the machine is in the process of performing a tool change.

    For myself and many others, hitting the "Reset" button is an immediate and instinctive reaction to the realization that there may be a problem somewhere or that the program or other data may have been inputted incorrectly to which it is necessary that the machines operation be terminated quickly from running.

    Now I know that the ultimate solution is to NOT push the "Reset" button during a tool change, but sometimes instinctive reactions take control and I then get stuck with 20 minutes of time wasting and lots of cussing to clear this alarm which I (and others) clear only through random button pushing to which finally hitting the magical combination of buttons to clear it.

    I would SO GREATLY APPRECIATE it if ANYONE here can PLEASE tell me the specific and correct way to clear this alarm on the Mazak CNC mills. It is not just limited to one model or version of Mazak CNC mill as it has occurred exactly the same on several different model Mazak mills. It is SO gosh-darn frustrating!! Please help!!

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    many machine tools act like that it is because it looses the turret position when you press reset. and you have to re-establiss a known turret position.

  3. #3
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The T2 T3 lathes had a outboard PLC for the tool changer, I don't think the mills had it.
    what model is the controller?
    Many have a set of M codes that act on single actions allowing you to get it back in sync.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    As Al The Man said, Mazaks use Mitsubishi controls which put a lot of the tool change functions outside the control. I have Dynamechtronics mills with Mitsubishi M3 controls and get an alarm if Reset is pressed during the tool change. Something in the PLC never gets the "finish" signal from the external tool change device (or the ATC macro) so the PLC alarms out. On my mills, it's about a 20-30 second delay before the alarm appears. Once the alarm appears, I have to power off the control to clear it.

    If I realize my mistake fast enough, I can jump into MDI and command another tool change before the alarm appears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NICK1945 View Post
    many machine tools act like that it is because it looses the turret position when you press reset. and you have to re-establiss a known turret position.
    Yes, I do believe this is the reason for the alarm. BUT the million dollar question that I am seeking is HOW does one quickly establish a known turret position on the Mazak? HOW exactly does the operator do this to get up and running again to clear the alarm? What specific steps are required to do this other than just pushing random buttons for 20 minutes in complete desperation?!?

    Does Mazak even know the answer to this? I am starting to wonder being that NOBODY thus far seems to know the answer to this one!! Nobody!!

  6. #6
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mill&Lathe View Post
    Does Mazak even know the answer to this? I am starting to wonder being that NOBODY thus far seems to know the answer to this one!! Nobody!!
    It might be helpful if you stated the machine model as requested?
    Also have you checked for the maintenance M codes for individual T.C. operation?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    It might be helpful if you stated the machine model as requested?
    Also have you checked for the maintenance M codes for individual T.C. operation?
    Al.
    Oops, forgot about that, sorry. Its a Mazak VariAxis-500. THANKS!!!

    Will also check for maintenance M codes also but I think the others have already done this and there is nothing that helps. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    I am not sure if I have the maintenance manuals for those, I won't be able to check until tomorrow.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    I am not sure if I have the maintenance manuals for those, I won't be able to check until tomorrow.
    Al.

    THANKS Al_The_Man!!!!! I really appreciate it!!!!!!!!!

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    The quick way to clear the alarm is to simply satisfy the ATC condition for where you got it stuck at. The Variaxis is a simple tool changer. Get famililar with the ATC Maintenance page. I can clear any ATC alarm in seconds (unless something mechanically very bad happened).

    The best way to get familiar is to go through a tool change cycle using the Maintenance page from start to finish (you'll also need to use the Tool Clamp/Unclamp button midway). It's a simple matter of 'order of operation'. No matter where/how it's stuck, look at where it's stuck relative to the order of operation and move forward from there.

    There are certain M-codes for maintenance but not all of the actions have them. Since you're in the Maint page anyway, might as well just use the buttons.
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

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    Quote Originally Posted by psychomill View Post
    The quick way to clear the alarm is to simply satisfy the ATC condition for where you got it stuck at. The Variaxis is a simple tool changer. Get famililar with the ATC Maintenance page. I can clear any ATC alarm in seconds (unless something mechanically very bad happened).

    The best way to get familiar is to go through a tool change cycle using the Maintenance page from start to finish (you'll also need to use the Tool Clamp/Unclamp button midway). It's a simple matter of 'order of operation'. No matter where/how it's stuck, look at where it's stuck relative to the order of operation and move forward from there.

    There are certain M-codes for maintenance but not all of the actions have them. Since you're in the Maint page anyway, might as well just use the buttons.
    This is what I have seen operators attempt to do many times to clear this type of alarm but in actuality, it never goes as easy as you are explaining for some reason!

    For some reason it seems that the machine becomes stubborn under such an alarm condition and it doesn't want to cooperate to operator commands which is why the solution always ends up being 20 minutes of button pressing in random combinations until a certain combination eventually wakes it up or forces it to cooperate.

    I have never seen even veteran operators clear this type of Mazak alarm as easy as you suggest. I am so very curious as to what you specifically do to get it resolved in seconds as you say. I get the gist of what you are saying, but again, that doesnt seem to work for anyone.

    For example, say that you had T24 pulled up which was used for edge-finding your part and then finished setup and was ready to run a program. So you now press the cycle start button to begin the program which calls up T1. So T1 comes out and just before the tool door cover shuts and while while the cycle start button is still flashing green and tools still cycling, you hit reset. What specifically do you press now and in what order? This will be nearly earth-shattering to discover a way to clear this in seconds as you say you can do. Thanks.

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    For example, say that you had T24 pulled up which was used for edge-finding your part and then finished setup and was ready to run a program. So you now press the cycle start button to begin the program which calls up T1. So T1 comes out and just before the tool door cover shuts and while while the cycle start button is still flashing green and tools still cycling, you hit reset. What specifically do you press now and in what order? This will be nearly earth-shattering to discover a way to clear this in seconds as you say you can do. Thanks.
    So given this condition, the only thing you need to know is the other side of the door status. The ATC maintenance page is simply a 'step by step' process of what happens automatically in a program or MDI. You simply need to visualize in your mind at what point of the auto cycle did the operator stop the machine at. This is your start point on your maintenance page.

    The simplest fix if the tool is in the chain already but indexing is to simply go to your magazine control panel and jog the tool chain 1 pocket to complete an "index" increment then simply restart your program. If the chain is stopped in between pockets, the machine will not start.

    Now if the tool is still in the ATC shifter or the change arm, you need to start from that point of the the ATC cycle to do one of 2 things.... Complete the cycle or bring the tool back to the Next Tool position. Sometimes it's quicker to bring the tool back to Next Tool position and restart the program from there. Especially on dual chain machines.

    To describe all of the instances would take too much print here. Do what I suggest though... spend a half a day and step through the entire ATC cycle only by using the Maint page. This will familiarize yourself with each step and buttons. It's worth it to do this then to sit there and cuss at it each time later. Take the time to learn it.... it's cheaper on the long run...

    Also, learn that on the MDI function, you may need to update the tool numbers for the one in the spindle or Next Tool. If this doesn't match with how you "fixed" it in Maintenance, the machine won't restart correctly either....
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  13. #13
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    When I was at Mazak, my role was customer support focusing on using the machine. What I always told people on my post install training trips is that the worst thing you can do is hit RESET IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOOL CHANGE! It may be necessary to abort a tool change, but you should avoid it at all costs. Simply because restoring the proper state to the TC is a challenging series of steps that involve MDI and manual operation in rigid sequence.

    On many modern Mazaks, like Variaxis and Integrex and a few others, they even rivet on a aluminum plate "cheat sheet" with the tool change sequence on it. Mazak has a bunch of internal procedure write ups on this subject, which the factory guys use so much they have it memorized!

    PS - I know of one former Mazak guy that got his hand seriously hurt when he was called in to fix a stuck tool changer. His injury could have been avoided if there was good debriefing between him and the customer. I think there was no communication at all, hence the smashed hand and subsequent visit from OSHA.*

    Just some comments... FWIW.

    -90% jimmy

    *I informally track CNC machine injuries. I was personally acquainted with two people that died in CNC accidents. One in the early 80's and the other only a few years ago. A female grad student at Yale died in the machine lab a month ago. Her hair got caught in her manual lathe. Weeks from graduation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psychomill View Post
    So given this condition, the only thing you need to know is the other side of the door status. The ATC maintenance page is simply a 'step by step' process of what happens automatically in a program or MDI. You simply need to visualize in your mind at what point of the auto cycle did the operator stop the machine at. This is your start point on your maintenance page.

    The simplest fix if the tool is in the chain already but indexing is to simply go to your magazine control panel and jog the tool chain 1 pocket to complete an "index" increment then simply restart your program. If the chain is stopped in between pockets, the machine will not start.

    Now if the tool is still in the ATC shifter or the change arm, you need to start from that point of the the ATC cycle to do one of 2 things.... Complete the cycle or bring the tool back to the Next Tool position. Sometimes it's quicker to bring the tool back to Next Tool position and restart the program from there. Especially on dual chain machines.

    To describe all of the instances would take too much print here. Do what I suggest though... spend a half a day and step through the entire ATC cycle only by using the Maint page. This will familiarize yourself with each step and buttons. It's worth it to do this then to sit there and cuss at it each time later. Take the time to learn it.... it's cheaper on the long run...

    Also, learn that on the MDI function, you may need to update the tool numbers for the one in the spindle or Next Tool. If this doesn't match with how you "fixed" it in Maintenance, the machine won't restart correctly either....


    Thanks a lot for your help psychomill, I really appreciate it.

  15. #15
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    Many CNC mills--not just Mazaks--will throw alarms when hitting reset during a tool change.

    Simple solution: Hit single block or feed hold. Get in the habit of having your hand on the feed hold button.

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    qt250 turret crash .... turret is out of line what broke???? still locks and rotates

  17. #17
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    Re: Mazak MYSTERY. HOW do you clear this ANNOYING Mazak alarm??!!! NOBODY KNOWS!!

    Thought I would add to this. There is a rb parameter that you can change that controls how the atc reacts upon reset. You can set it to finish what it is doing even when reset is pressed during atc.

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    Re: Mazak MYSTERY. HOW do you clear this ANNOYING Mazak alarm??!!! NOBODY KNOWS!!

    this obviously wont be helpful to you now but alls i do is usually manually unload the tool that has been loaded into the spindle and then go round to the back of the machine manually move the tool carousel a couple of times then go back to the screen and call out the probe usually allows me to then start again.

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