[SimonArthur]

I'm sure many of you have heard of eMachineShop. For those who haven't, here is how it works: you go to their web site and install their CAD software. The software can provide you a quote instantly on parts or materials that you design, with a variety of options for delivery time, materials, and quantity discounts.

This seems to be far more efficient and modern than the classic machine shop method of calling through the phone book, faxing sketches around, and so on. It seems like eMachineShop lowers the barriers for the hobbyist and prototyper by providing an all in one solution.

Will eMachineShop and services like it put anyone out of business? Or are they simply tapping into a new market? Is anyone thinking about setting up a website like eMachineShop?

And yes, I have an ulterior motive in asking about this. It involves competing with eMachineShop.

[HuFlungDung]

I highly doubt that they will take over the world. It doesn't take a lot of orders to simply bury any kind of a sane work schedule.

Rumours I've heard already is the lead times are quite long, and quality is....er.....waiting for improvement in QC.

[rustyolddo]

For someone wanting a one-of or small run, they'll be a big help. They are considerably more expensive than a local job shop so for a big company to use them, it won't be cost effective.

"IF" they were smart, they would organize a job shop pool and farm out work to smaller job shops that had unused machine time. Doing so would take some logistics but it would do the one thing that most small operators have difficulty doing and that's pricing jobs. It might keep some places in business.

[HuFlungDung]

Rusty,
That is a good idea about the job shop pool. I think MFGQuote needs some competition
The trouble with MFGQuote is the expense to "get in", that totally eliminates a lot of players from the game.

I think maybe a small fee (applied to buyers and sellers) on a "per job" basis would help cover the expenses of running an online service that brings small buyers together with small shop services.

It could require some imagination to put the service together, some creative thinking something like ebay, only better Paul, where are you?

I'm imagining a feedback system to keep quality up, deadbeats out, etc., "Wanted" section with RFQ's, "Work wanted" section that allows the buyer to peruse the list of who is out there and make the initial approach to the machining service they might like.

[DieGuy]

Rusty,
That is a good idea about the job shop pool. I think MFGQuote needs some competition
The trouble with MFGQuote is the expense to "get in", that totally eliminates a lot of players from the game.

I think maybe a small fee (applied to buyers and sellers) on a "per job" basis would help cover the expenses of running an online service that brings small buyers together with small shop services.

It could require some imagination to put the service together, some creative thinking something like ebay, only better Paul, where are you?

I'm imagining a feedback system to keep quality up, deadbeats out, etc., "Wanted" section with RFQ's, "Work wanted" section that allows the buyer to peruse the list of who is out there and make the initial approach to the machining service they might like.

Damn I like that idea, the fee structue could be nearly the same as eBay with a small listing fee to cover the listing expense and a job award fee like a final sale on eBay. I am sure that one could even hook the payment up with Paypal to give some assurance against fraud. I like the feedback idea as well, that lowers the chaf level and gives the oppurtunity to comment on the job. This does have more complication than a simple sale however. The deliverers capability to hold tolerance might be interesting to know as well as his delivery on time record. Lots more variables.

One of the toughest thing a new small shop goes through is gettting a client base built up.

[Stewart]

I checked out the site and all I have to say is great inovation. But I have tried to get qoutes on sla products before and did not work so great. I uploaded the cad file and the qoute I got was expensive compared to when I qouted from another sla shop over the phone. I called back the other shop and asked if they could revamp the qoute they did and where within a resoanable amount of another shop that was across the country.

This technology is great and I hope it works out for them but, will take a lot of work and if they start out with a bad name and a bad rep it will be hard to break, but I will always cheer on someone who thinx outside the box and puts it in motion.

as for a machining site I would say people can come here and get all the qoutes they need, don't redesign the wheel, it's working in my opinion. although you have to look at cadground which looks like its doing well in observation. I have to say again that the community looks to be doing pretty well here(I just joined yesterday though).

[murphy625]

If this is the same place I am thinking of, try to design a simple 3 dimensional hour glass.
You cant do it with their software. Unless they fixed it...

[cbass]

If this is the same place I am thinking of, try to design a simple 3 dimensional hour glass.
You cant do it with their software. Unless they fixed it...

I visited their site about a year ago. Downloaded their software. Found it not as inuitive as I would have liked. So I asked them if they would take STL, DWG, IGES, STEP etc. They said no, you have you use our software to get a quote(!). I'm surprised they're still in business, unless their quoting policy has changed...

Carlo

[ynneb]

I think MFGQuote needs some competition

Funny you should say that. I recently started a web site that has some standard kit designs that can be cut. My thinking was instead of shipping from Aus to USA or any other combination, you had a world wide pool of Cutters / machinists. This would solve the expence of shipping costs etc.
I was thinking if that worked, to then have a RFQ section where anyone could make a free RFQ and the Machinist members could then quote for the job. The best quote would also have to take into account postage details etc.

The successful winner of the job would then be required to pay a flat fee to the website for winning the bid. All machinists would need to have previuosly submitted a deposit to cover the first fee, so as to stop fee evasion. I was thinking of a flat fee of $ 5 per $100 on the winning quote. Just enough the cover site costs and admin costs without been a greedy giant.

[phoneman]

Benny:
Where is your site and what type of standard kits are you talking about?

Dave

[ynneb]

Benny:
Where is your site and what type of standard kits are you talking about?

Its not finished yet. At present it doesnt look like what I was describing but will soon.
www.kitscut.com

[rustyolddo]

The way I invision it is you have shops aka members with various levels of skill & time. A real shop might have a VMC and CNC Lathe and is full time production facility. They would specify whether they want large or small runs, what their lead time is, in a nut shell their niche or specialty. Small hobby shops might be more adept to doing small runs and one-of's, perhaps longer lead times or maybe quick turn around on one-of's.

You'd have to put together a job shop profile. The website would solicite the business and would be supported by a precentage of each job. The website managers would farm out the jobs to the jobshops based on the criteria of the person requesting the work.
I don't know if their is a universal way for billing hours but this would be handled by the website.

For small jobshops/hobbiest level, the machinist wouldn't have to worry about pricing the job. He/she would simply be given the job to review, what it pays, when it's due and can decide if it's worth their time, if they have the tooling, and if they can meet the deadline. If not, it gets passed to someone else. 24 hr's to review & accept. Perhaps a job goes out to a number of shops and the first to accept gets it, or it's split between two shops. Etc. It allows for folks that have the time and can handle the workload.

Jobs go out on a rotation so the same person does't get the job every time. If someone continually declines jobs,the get purged or go to an inactive status.

Similar for larger shops, some might have a large production run and cannot accept any new work, etc.

Jobshops would have to be ranked on various levels. You're not going to have a hobbiest producitng areospace parts, likewise no areospace mfr. is going to want to waste time making RC car or paintball parts.

The whole thing in a nutshell is the "Website" goes to the job shop and says we need this many of this part, the specifications are ...., we need them by this date, we will pay this much. The jobshop will have to meet the terms to get paid, if they don't then they are out their time & materials. "Website" will have to offer some kind of guarantee to the buyer.

The website will serve to improve the quality of the jobshops performance thru education. It will encourage jobshops to be profitable.

Just some ideas & ramblings, one of the things I see with small mfrs, owner operators is they have alot of idle machine time, they don't know how to operate profitably, they cut throat jobs just to keep thier head above water. Most machinists I know are excellet machinist and lousy business people. It's the the personality type. Just like engineers are slobs and hate to document their work. Anyway, I think if there were a way to get jobshops to work together, their would be alot more staying in business.

[smythe]

I think the format used by Rentacoder would work well for something like this. Even though its for sofware etc. - the format seems on point. A bid would be placed, shops would bid, user selects shop, funds would go into escrow (protecting buyer and shop). Shop doesnt start work until the funds hit escrow. They also do arbitration if there are disputes. On longer projects the shop would have to provide status reports.

How RAC makes some money is by fees that are taken out of the total project amount that is to be paid to the shop. However the fees are reduced if the buyer pays with a preferred method i.e. check/m.o via snail mail.

I think something like this would work well for this industry. My 2cents .. make change if you must.

J

[SimonArthur]

What everyone is describing here is similar to JobShop.com and MfgQuote.com . Are you familiar with these?

[Willyb]

Don't think the job shops will be worried anytime soon. I checked to have some parts made and their price was crazy. Would be way cheaper going down to my local machine shop.

Willyb

[SimonArthur]

Ah, but why can't your local machine shop be on line as well?

[Mcgyver]

What everyone is describing here is similar to JobShop.com and MfgQuote.com . Are you familiar with these?

Aren’t those exchange models? It sounds like emachineshop is not a virtual business - i.e. they do the actual work. Time has proven the exchange model to not work - most business transactions have too much context to work with an anonymous exchange, those that can (coffee, pork bellies and general electric stop) are already on exchanges.

For example, at the turn of the century (still seems weird to say that) there were 50-60 metals exchanges, some with 9 figure investments. They’ve all failed, or some have morphed into glorified edi net providers before the cash ran out, but they certainly didn't disintermediate the service centre business!

This offer might be analogous to offering a 1-800 number, free delivery - it might benefit some customers but doesn't really change the value proposition - They still cut metal to specs for a price. These guys have expanded the market and customer access, but now there is a bigger web development bill, shipping charges, and the lack of a chance to build a relationship. Doesn’t mean it’s a dumb idea, just not one that’s going to change the world imo

[SimonArthur]

According to this article:
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/080508.html
eMachineShop farms out its work to actual manufacturers.

[Mcgyver]

then I'd short the stock . I can't see how there's enough margin for a middle man and they still can't provide context - ie that special rush service for a good customer, the trust of personal relationship, QC - one minute the job shop is great the next its one who care less, business terms, problem resolution, etc etc

[unterhaus]

there is a yahoo group called machined_hobbiest that allows people to find someone to machine something for them. Not a large number of customers, but if you need something done and don't know anyone locally, it's a good place to start. http://groupyahoo.com/group/machined_hobbiest/

In general, I see this as a solution in search of a problem. I personally wouldn't let one of my jobs get too far afield, and I think a lot of people are like that.