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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Uncategorised MetalWorking Machines > Vertical Mill, Lathe Project Log > Show how to build a CNC machine from the very beginning to the end
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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hmmmmm, dealers.......that's a tricky one, it means a mark-up that will increase the price.

    I realise a dealer has to make a living, and at the same time import the item and pay the duties and taxes etc, give the warranty and backup service before the buyer can even see the item.

    It would be interesting to see how much it would cost to import direct from the manufacturer in China without going through a dealer, similar to buying something on EBAY, like the 3020, 3040 and 6040 routers which come direct from China.

    So, when the website is open will that enable orders to be placed directly with your company?

    A picture of the SVM-1/2 with enclosure would be interesting to see the design and layout.......in case we want to modify it.....LOL......oh no, not again.....well maybe just to see how it looks for self build and possible customising.

    I have a picture in mind of an enclosure, looking something similar to an upright sandblaster type cabinet with adjustable feet to mount on a bench or tubular steel stand, but the chip removal would have to be a prime consideration, so the enclosure and stand must be closely connected to have consistency in operation.

    I would think that in this case a mist type coolant system would work better than a flood type, (I might be totally wrong on that thought) as it's on a much smaller scale than the larger commercial mills and without the huge metal removal rates that bigger mills experience.

    If the enclosure has already been made then a plan for DIY construction would be all that was needed.
    Ian.
    Hi handlewanker,

    Yes, I totally understand the price issue with a dealer character.. Just some thoughts in case some users maybe have no experience of import and will tend to local dealers with convenience and service.

    Frankly, I have thought over the support issue from my side directly. Before talking about support, I have to say I had tried best to make my machine strong enough; all parts of good quality; and electrics seriously developed and built with high quality parts. All third party parts are selected by myself from long term trustable suppliers. My aim is obvious, try best to reduce postsale risk even pay more cost in advance.

    So actually, machines under my brand will be very strong and stable. I do want to set up my brand and don't want to screw up because of some small part failure. And, via international delivery service like DHL, UPS etc. postsale service will be very fast too.

    Yes. When the website is open, or even before it open, users can place order directly from my company which has existed and been working on manufacture&trade for over 2 years.

    This is my company name (and logo):


    Yeah..I actually would like to see users do modifications on my machines and enclosures etc. It's very cool. Of course, must make sure safe to human and machine body.. I think the outer stuff.. enclosure, stand, coolant, control panel... could have various designs and applications based on personal resource and needs. Personalization is good~

    I agree 100% that the mist coolant system is some better than flood on SVM-0. An all in one mist system will be best if it's avaliable on market.

    Yes. the standard enclosure for a client has been made and will be posted very soon.. I have some other simple enclosure DIY plans too.. I will organize and posted later when have time.. quite easy I think.
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  2. #382
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    Hi Sky, there's nothing quite like a picture to put you in the picture and inspire you........that cabinet stand looks great.

    I think.....(here we go again....LOL)......I would modify the base where the machine sits on.

    I would have a strong panel across from front to back with tubing beneath for bolting onto, and with the sloping panels at the sides continuing down to meet at the bottom beneath the machine base, there being a gap on either side of the base panel to allow the swarf and chips to fall down and be vented out of a hole in the back, into a bucket etc......this would enable you to brush the swarf off the table and just let it slide down the sloping panel into the base cavity directly into a bucket in the base or out to a bucket at the side or back.

    I see in the second photo the start of the upper cabinet proper, probably with the opening in the centre as normal and a sliding door/window, whatever.

    I'm rather influenced by the cabinet design of the Levil WL400 CNC mill, where they have the upper section in a clear plexiglass material and a drop down front door.

    The reason for my interest is that the SVM-0 is quite a compact package and the swarf build up as such probably won't occur on a grand scale, not unless someone gets a big order for some aluminium parts and has to do a massive metal removal operation necessitating a bulldozer to get the swarf out.....LOL.

    Now that the picture is maturing in my mind, I envisage the cabinet base as shown in photo #1 with the side tray extending on either side and having a sloping bottom, the base vented on either side of the mill etc, and a clear plastic completely removable surround screen, sitting inside the rim of the base tray with clips to prevent vibration noise, and terminating at the sides of the mill column, a sort of a U shape but with squarer corners and with either a drop down hinged front or a sliding panel.....the top can remain open as this is a precision mill and not a hack and splash model throwing swarf everywhere.

    There can be a top panel if needed when the action gets fast and furious, and this is just a large panel placed on top and secured with more clips.

    The drop down hinged front panel means there are no trackways to get swarf in, and a simple hinge will do the trick........the drop panel can also act as a bench top of sorts when the panel is dropped down, but as this would lead to scratching on the panel it would render it "unclear" pretty soon......however as it's a good convenient place to put finished parts as they are removed from the vice or table, I would just make a thin sacrificial panel to attach to the inside of the panel and dispose of it as it deteriorates.

    Having a light removable top section makes cleaning easy, as all it needs is to remove it and hose it down outside.....a one man job.

    The Levil WL400 is a different design CNC mill to the normal column mill and has a moving column type design with a fixed table, but the cabinet does give complete viewing of the work in progress.

    I think the Plexiglass type material can be worked by someone with a bit of mechanical skill and is definitely not a welding job, probably just reinforced glue joints at the corners.

    Let there be light.......I think that possibly two 40watt 600mm Flouro tubes placed on either side inside the cabinet will give a very even light without shadows, but this can also be a single light fixture hanging from the roof to simplify the cabinet build and keep the swarf and coolant mist out.

    BTW, I was looking at the UMC-10 mill by David DeCaussin on UTUBE, and the cabinet, a Fadal look alike, although very neatly made and completely enclosed, does make the package a bit bulky.......... OK if you are in industry and work that way.

    For someone who has the room to spare, the full metal jacket may be the preferred method, but it does mean a supply problem and won't come cheap.....plus it would need to be powder coated to resist rusting, although a good 2 pack epoxy coating would probably be just as good, and available as a DIY spray on......provided the steel of the casing was completely de-rusted before coating.
    Ian.

  3. #383
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    1880
    I don't like the drop down as then you have a floor space clearance issue. Tracks with swarf aren't that bad an issue to me. I'm sure you can modify to your hearts content. Traditional box made from metal is more modifiable than a plastic anything and lasts far longer.

    just my 2 cents, but handlewanker is a smart guy so although I don't care for his vision I'm sure others will love it. :cheers:
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  4. #384
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    Hi, I just googled the two type CNCs you mentioned and very interesting designs of them. I have had some similar enclosure and stand designs with UMC-10. But mine is some different for strongger structure with a big square casting stand of 260kg.

    I must say that the stand and the enclosure are not new and standard designs for SVM-2 series. They are just my old stuff gathered up to show SVM-2 as the whole machine. But one of the formal SVM-2 enclosure will be the smiliar appearance. The formal version of SVM-2 enclosure will be some more like the UMC-0 but many differences and will be even better.

    The stand is a old cabinet too.. The formal one will integrated with chip removing system inside. I will do that on the ATC stand. I planned to weld the stand with 15mm thickness steel sheet, which is under plasma cutting now. It will be very conveniece for chip removal. I will show it when its avaliable.

    For the paint coating, I have been always using the 2 pack epoxy coating. And I use it on machine body too. With proper coating process, Its surface is quite near to powder coating quality.

    My former batch formal enclosures were using powder coating. I think once I have batch production of the enclosure parts, powder coating is still my standard selection.

    I should announce that the prototype of SVM-2 is built for myself and will be used to product small parts and some of the SVM-0/SVM-1 castings.. Actually I just have done some conversion works of a SVM-0 head with it today. Mill a SVM-0 spindle hole to 80mm to cotain a standard 80mm high speed spindle. It will be another variant of SVM-0------High Speed Engraving Version.. I will show here later too.

    The huge package will always be an issue of enclosure equiped machines. So, for SVM-0/1/2, I will make the full/half enclosures as options and open some designs that can be easy built up on user end. So the enclosure in the SVM-2 pictures are one of the simple solution---could be modified and upgraded with glass walls, front panel, chip removal structure etc..

    My plan is:

    A. Providing SVM-0/1/2 with standard electric box on the back(just like SVM-0 has now), That could be easily add up with stand, tray, enclosure etc..
    B. Providing full enclosure versions with stands or brackets with adjustable feet.
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  5. #385
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    Here is one of my former designed and batch producted enclosures. Powder coated and very good quality one. Doors and windows are not mounted to it yet

    It's of very fitful size to SVM-2 and I plan to do a little modification to it and make it a standard full enclosure for SVM-2. I will design a new stand with thick steel board to be standard with it. Chip and coolant issue will be solved together perfectly.

    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  6. #386
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    Jan 2005
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    I looked at them too and they are cool and for a diy i would go with one of those.

    On the other hand I use the **** out of my stuff and like the durability of metal and looking in while it's machining to me is purely for set up. I don't watch mine anymore been doing this too long!

    great suggestion though, I think my hobby machine might need a new enclosure!
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  7. #387
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    Sep 2013
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    12
    Nice work!

  8. #388
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    Hi, The SVM-0 by itself would be a relatively small and compact package, but add an enclosure and the package becomes huge.

    This is one problem I could not imagine a solution to.....the enclosure size would make the shipping cost enormous even with the mill and peripherals attached inside.

    I would think the shipping cost would be on the volume of the shipping container and not on it's actual weight.

    This is where a dealer would win by importing them by a container load

    For the average person buying just one machine direct from the manufacturer, it would probably not be possible to have an enclosure with the package........I may be totally wrong on that assumption.

    It would be nice to break open a shipping container and find a complete assembly in an enclosure ready to just wipe off the grease etc before plugging in.........having read the manual before hand.....LOL.

    If the cost of international shipping is based on the size of the shipping container, not the weight, then the mill and all it's incidentals would just go along for the ride inside the enclosure.....it still has to handled with a fork lift.

    Sky, I think you mentioned a ball park figure for shipping of a couple of hundred dollars.....that was probably just for the mill itself, sans enclosure.
    Ian.

  9. #389
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    Jun 2004
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    6618
    I imagine it could be designed to break down and ship in the same container.
    My Torus came with bolt on wings and they really didn't require silicone, though I used it anyway.
    These parts could easily be distributed around the base and strapped down. That is assuming the mill ships already attached to the base.
    It was a pretty neat package.
    Lee

  10. #390
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    Hi guys.. I'm not quite sure about the exact shipping cost of the SVM-0 with a full enclosure now. But should not be a big part compared to other export charges.

    But a nice guy really gave me an order with full enclosure and almost all upgrade options. Actually the one in latest picture with AC servo motors is belong to him. I just take back the enclosure from welding side today and yes.. compared to SVM-0 itself, it's really big thing. We have a powder coating line in ourown facility but it's really a little small to coat this enclosure. The simple electric box on the back of the SVM-0 prototype is no problem to powder coating.

    I will show the enclosure pictures tomorrow. I think we will know the exact shipping charge with enclosure very soon

    Thanks LeeWay! That's a good solution to ship the enclosure with machine body. But yes, if the machine go with the stand. or it will not have enough height to contain the tray length. Anyway, it's a possible way to workout the shipping size in future.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesims View Post
    Nice work!
    Thank you! Welcome any discussion here!
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  11. #391
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    Here I have some urgent updates with SVM-2 now because I really need its service now because many small machining works to do but not worth to use the big VMC.. So the SVM-2 has been set up urgently and start to run now. I think it's quite a good demo to show Skyfire SVM-2 capability.

    I took two videos until now.

    First is the cutting capacity demo. I cut a 12mm thick C45 steel board with full 12mm depth, high feed speed of 450mm/min, rapid speed 5000mm/min under USB controller. The cutting was quite stable and smooth. The detailed cutting configrations are listed in the video.

    Here is the demo on Youtube:
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  12. #392
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    And the second app. is more interesting..I got a new order with a special spindle requirement. Plan is to use a 80mm metalworking high speed spindle directly because this guy will do engraving works mostly and do some milling occasionally. So the final solution is to use a 80mm 2.2kw 24000rpm engraving spindle. It can do milling works too with carbide tools under 5000-6000rpm. So I need to convert the current spindle hole to 80mm. So this has been done on the new SVM-2.

    The cutting depth of the spindle box wall is about 12-14mm. I set the cutting width of 2.5mm, feed rate 450mm/min( really a little risk to blow up a SVM-0 head), The cutting result was not bad. just exactly what I wanted.

    I have to reduce the coolant supply because I don't want to destroy my poor camera by water spring and want to show the cutting more clear. So.. it's not the coolant system fault.

    Here is the video:


    I will show the next progress of this new type of SVM-0 soon.
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  13. #393
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    several clear pictures:




    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  14. #394
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    You have some nice machines there!

  15. #395
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    Hi all, just having a read of the various enclosure aspects.......for my part, having the bottom tray and base mount as a stand alone unit with adjustable feet, to stand on a bench, cabinet or plain square steel tube stand, would probably be the only part I'd want to have with the SVM-0 model, mainly because I would go for mist coolant, so no big splash around problem, and secondly I think I'd just add a Plexiglass type surround bit to keep the chips constrained to the tray area, and that in itself is a DIY capable factor well within the average user grasp.......and some might even consider just adding a surround shield made from a shower curtain...LOL.

    One point I would like to make.....the bigger up the ladder you go the more you come within the realms of the commercial machines and all their bells and whistle packages that the buyers would go for......here the name counts more than the machine itself, and industry can be very tunnel visioned when it comes to investment in a new device.

    The SVM-0 is a unique package with nothing like it in the market to approach it for bang for the buck capability, so that factor alone makes it a win win seller for the manufacturer.

    Now that the SVM-1&2 are poised ready to launch on the slipway, I expect there will be some very worried CEO's in the boardrooms of the competition, but as the indicated price for a ready to run SVM-1 or 2 costs less than to buy in and retrofit a similar manual mill for CNC capability, and that without the end result or anyway near it, I think the market for retrofit CNC manual mills will dwindle to a trickle.

    The cost of parts for retrofitting a manual mill is far more than the initial cost of the brand new host machine, about a 3X cost factor.
    Ian.

  16. #396
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    Hi Sky, just re-read the last couple of posts........the videos were great.

    I was amazed that the SVM-0 is going to be fitted with the 2.2Kw spindle in 80mm.

    I take it that the 2.2Kw spindle is a special order, but it's encouraging to know that it can be done.

    How would this interact with an ISO 20 spindle.......does it mean you would have an adaptor to allow a change over capability when you want to go high speed engraving with the bigger spindle diam?

    Now that the options are coming in thick and fast and varied, would this generate a need for a new head casting to fully utilise the SVM-0's capability, or will the old head casting be able to manage having the boring sizes for the various options?

    If all it takes is an adaptor to enable various spindles to be fitted, then I suppose the head casting will be standardised to one bore size and adapted down to fit any spindle option needed, especially if the machine was initially bought with just a standard spindle for milling and the customer decided to go to an engraving upgrade, or vice a versa.
    Ian.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi all, just having a read of the various enclosure aspects.......for my part, having the bottom tray and base mount as a stand alone unit with adjustable feet, to stand on a bench, cabinet or plain square steel tube stand, would probably be the only part I'd want to have with the SVM-0 model, mainly because I would go for mist coolant, so no big splash around problem, and secondly I think I'd just add a Plexiglass type surround bit to keep the chips constrained to the tray area, and that in itself is a DIY capable factor well within the average user grasp.......and some might even consider just adding a surround shield made from a shower curtain...LOL.

    One point I would like to make.....the bigger up the ladder you go the more you come within the realms of the commercial machines and all their bells and whistle packages that the buyers would go for......here the name counts more than the machine itself, and industry can be very tunnel visioned when it comes to investment in a new device.

    The SVM-0 is a unique package with nothing like it in the market to approach it for bang for the buck capability, so that factor alone makes it a win win seller for the manufacturer.

    Now that the SVM-1&2 are poised ready to launch on the slipway, I expect there will be some very worried CEO's in the boardrooms of the competition, but as the indicated price for a ready to run SVM-1 or 2 costs less than to buy in and retrofit a similar manual mill for CNC capability, and that without the end result or anyway near it, I think the market for retrofit CNC manual mills will dwindle to a trickle.

    The cost of parts for retrofitting a manual mill is far more than the initial cost of the brand new host machine, about a 3X cost factor.
    Ian.
    Hi. Yes, the enclosure design is some similiar as you narrated. an enclosure with base mont and feet to place on a table or some plate. But I made it not only the bottom tray, but a whole enclosure because I need some place to contain the electrics anyway.. so the whole enclosure will be quite necessory. And the extra wall sheets will not cost much more money... But I opend big windows on the enclosure and will place light inside, so the glasses and extra parts maybe an effector to cost. Of course- a simple enclosure will be avaliable. just a very basic one I guess as you described.

    Yes.. I think the SVM-1/2 will touch the industrial area and are very commercial products. They will be very fitful to workshops, mold building, CNC part manufacture lines, labs, CNC educations etc. I have organized some datasheet and placed SVM-2 on Alibaba now..Maybe will return some good news in future

    Under the current times condition, I think more and more buyers will look for the original manufacture for best price. The current econoimc surroundings is not very good like years before. Saving cash is very important to everyone... I'd like to do some B2C, C2C for best money saving too. But depends on many things like trust issue, brand recognition, import experience etc.. So maybe I will do business many way.

    I quite agree that any retrofitted CNC will cost more than you estimated---if you want it really good but not just run up. People is that way, when you run up a retrofit machine, you will want it to be better, and then better... So more and more inverst.. But sinces you have invested a lot... what can keep you away from invest more? Very interesting...So I really think we should settle a matter at one go.
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi Sky, just re-read the last couple of posts........the videos were great.

    I was amazed that the SVM-0 is going to be fitted with the 2.2Kw spindle in 80mm.

    I take it that the 2.2Kw spindle is a special order, but it's encouraging to know that it can be done.

    How would this interact with an ISO 20 spindle.......does it mean you would have an adaptor to allow a change over capability when you want to go high speed engraving with the bigger spindle diam?

    Now that the options are coming in thick and fast and varied, would this generate a need for a new head casting to fully utilise the SVM-0's capability, or will the old head casting be able to manage having the boring sizes for the various options?

    If all it takes is an adaptor to enable various spindles to be fitted, then I suppose the head casting will be standardised to one bore size and adapted down to fit any spindle option needed, especially if the machine was initially bought with just a standard spindle for milling and the customer decided to go to an engraving upgrade, or vice a versa.
    Ian.
    Thanks handle, I will get some more cutting demo videos next and put on YT.

    The 2.2KW spindle is a special ordered one. Why I use such a big power spindle on SVM-0?--Actually I think 1.5KW will be fine. The user will need some milling works at lower end RPM. So 2.2KW is only for bigger torque at low speed end.

    Hmm.. until now I still take the 80mm high speed spindle version a special order. I have not considered it a universal exchangable feature to all other possible spindles (ER32, ISO20, 65mm high speed spindle). Because if I take the 80mm hole as standard. It will bring some bad effectors to standard versions and extra mounts to add cost... So except you have special needs.. I don't plan to make the 80mm spindle hole standard yet.

    All of the various types of the SVM-0 are using the same head cast.. just need some possible different mounts with different boring size of the spindle hole.

    I will see how to do after gathering some customer thoughts... The uniform bore size actually will add cost if don't have many different requests of different spindle size. For special orders.. You see, very quickly I can re-bore a spindle hole with SVM-2 in hand.
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    You have some nice machines there!
    Thanks wizard! :cheers:
    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

  20. #400
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    Jul 2011
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    Here is the half finished full enclosure..will need last cleaning and coating works. And then glasses and doors, electrics installation.

    I have welded the mount under it too.. under powder coating now. I will show with the enclosure together soon.



    www.skyfirecnc.com
    Email: [email protected]; Skype: skyfirecnc

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