[Adam Baker]

I'm currently enrolled in an Advanced 3D Solid Modeling course at a local college, and one of the things the instructor touched on, was the testing for the certifications that can be obtained through Solidworks / Dassault Systèmes.

There are 3 certifications listed through the Solidworks site, Certified SolidWorks Associate, Certified SolidWorks Professional and Certified SolidWorks Expert. The CSWA & CSWP are 99 each for the certification tests and the CSWE is 150.

Im thinking I might be able to get the company I work for to pay for the CSWP test, but I'm just wondering if this is something that would be useful in a job hunt, having it listed on my resume.

[jupdyke]

I have my CSWP and got it when that was the only test available. It was an 8 hour exam and you had to go to testing site. I took mine at SolidWorks World, which is the huge conference they have every year.

Anyway, I think that it is something you should really consider. The world is full of people that can use a CAD package and list it as one of their skills. But what does that really show? How many people only have a little experience? The certification shows that you really know your stuff and sets you apart from others.

I understand that the cost is a concern, and it can be tough to justify that expense these days. If you are looking for a job, or just trying to stack the deck for your next promotion it is worth the cost. If you can get your company to pay for it then you should always go for it. It is only a few hours of your time, and shows you are motivated to improve skills.

I have seen many jobs on Monster that list SolidWorks specifically, and I think that number is growing as they take more of the market share in CAD. Also, SolidWorks has a page where you can list your name and contact information if you choose, so people looking for a SW pro can find you.

So the question is really why shouldn't you take the exam? By the way, SW has a university program where universities can enroll and get vouchers for a free CSWA exam for their students. When I was teaching the SW class at Kansas State University I was given several hundred each semester. My university loved it because it was one more thing they could brag about. Maybe the local college would like chance to show off too. Here is a link to a description of the program.
http://www.catt-llc.com/SolidWorks_CSWA.pdf

Also, if your company has a subscription service to SW you may have free exams available as well.

If you have any questions or want advice PM me.
josh

[Adam Baker]

Thank you very much for the info. I figured it was probably worth going for, but wanted to get some input on it.

I'll definitely look into whether my company has a subscription or not. I know that the system is updated w/ every new release, and its updated annually to the newest software, so I know they keep up w/ it.

I will also ask the professor of my class next week, if they have any vouchers for the certs, that would be excellent to come across.

[jupdyke]

I suspect that your instructor at the college has no idea the program even exists. If I didn't know Jeremy Luchini, I wouldn't have ever heard of it. Sadly it doesn't get advertised much. Not sure why.

To enroll all you have to do is fill out an online form and maybe send an e-mail. Then I got a email response with a voucher for each student in my class. lol

Josh

[gurew]

i think certs are a waste of money IF and i repeat IF you are taking the classes only for the cert....

and ill rephrase that..

if you get the cert for KNOWLEDGE then its worth it...the piece of paper is worthless...its what you gain in terms of knowledge is what you pay for...

and with that being said i have a veeeery long list of certs most of which i dont even use for my job...ie ccna and ccnp cisco certs...id rather weld and program cnc machines all day long than configure routers and setup networks

[Adam Baker]

Well, I'm not taking the class just to get the cert. Im taking the class to learn to use the program. I actually didnt know anything at all about the certs until last night.

I look at it like having the cert could help me get a job using Solidworks, which would give me the chance to learn it better and get more experience w/ it.

The class I'm taking is going to be excellent in that it will teach me what I dont know. But what I really need once I'm done, is a job using it, so that I can expand on what I learn in the class.

[gurew]

i dont think having the cert will get you the job...being able to perform and design in solidworks will... either way...go and get the knowledge

[jupdyke]

I disagree with gurew actually. When you apply for a job the employer hardly takes the time to decide who is the most qualified for the job. They do not interview everyone, look at their skill, give them any kind of tests to show it. No they look at your resume, along with hundreds of others, and have a short interview. They hire you based on the way you look on paper and how you handle yourself in a meeting.

My point is that when you apply for jobs you will put a small blurb on your resume that you know how to use SolidWorks. That blurb can be that you have used it or that you are certified in the program. I don't think you will get hired because of the certification, but it might be that little thing that sets your resume apart from the hundred of other applicants that simply put 'SolidWorks Experience' down. If that gets you an interview I would say it was worth the time to take the test, and maybe even the $99 you spent on the exam if you pay for it yourself.

That being said, I don't think you will get a job over someone with 3 years experience, even if they don't have any certification. But you wouldn't have got the job anyway. The skill is what is important for sure, but how to show you have the skill on a resume is also important.

just my $0.02
josh

[gurew]

with all due respect (and i said with all due respect) thats a crock of ****... esp when it comes to cad/cam design. simply having a cert doesnt make you qualified..nor does it even help your chances of getting a job..esp in this piss poor economy.

i dont know what you have on your resume but mine (not that i need to use it ever) clearly says "can use solidworks and not waste time redrawing the same part 35 times". if a company has that mindset...clearly they arent someone you want to work for and most likely the people working for them will get you hurt via some accident in the shop.

certs dont get you jobs..skills do..period

remember i said with all due respect

[jupdyke]

gurew. First thanks for making me smile when reading your reply. I don't claim to be due any more respect than you would give a random stranger. In fact less than most because I am a young guy. I appreciate your opinion and enjoy a healthy discussion.

I never said the certification would get you the job. I said having the certification is one more feather in your cap. My point was how is it in this job market that you are supposed to show you know anything about CAD / CAM? Most companies have an online application process, use software filters to weed through huge numbers of resumes, and then an HR person looks at your resume without really knowing anything about the skills that are needed.

I am an engineer and not a machinist or draftsman by the way. As I said in my previous post, I do not claim that having a certification will get you the job. You claim its the skill that get you the job. How do you show you have such a skill. The SolidWorks exams are fairly difficult and give credibility to your statement that you know what you are doing. I never claimed you had to have a certificate in order to have the skills. I am well aware of many people who are more knowledgeable about a topic than those who have a degree or work in that field.

I also know that every single engineering student graduating from the university I taught at can put SolidWorks experience on their resume. But what does that show. Absolutely nothing. If instead they took and passed one of these exams, they can put something one step above that. I also told my students to keep the models they made and the final project so they could use it as part of a portfolio. These things demonstrate skill, rather then just making a unsupported claim to it.

Your previous experience and work history also support this claim, and if the company actually checks your references then that will support it as well. I never claimed that being skilled didn't get you the job. I claimed that if you have the option of getting a certification at little or no cost to you, it would behoove you to do so.

I know a lot of engineers, machinist, mechanics, draftsmen and countless others that are dumber than a box of rocks. But on paper they look the same to me. The have a job and can claim they used SolidWorks every work day for five years. I can model anything they can in less time, more accurately and make it easier to update. But on paper we look the same, except for the fact that I am certified.

Skills get you the job, agreed. But the certification doesn't hurt, and might even help.

Josh

[gurew]

im just giving you a hard time hopefully no harm done!

certs will never hurt you, they MAY help, however the skill and knowledge you gain along the way to getting the certs can prove to be most valuable in the long run

[jupdyke]

nah, like I said you made me laugh when I read your post.

I also think that setting a definitive goal help when trying to learn something. The certification shows you what areas you might need to work on, and can give you that satisfaction of completing something.

one final point is that at SolidWorks World there is a special party where only the CSWP are allowed to get in. Free food, free booze and usually some really cool entertainment. One year it was a beach party with a wave machine for surfing, another had a bunch of gas powered rc cars and race tracks set up all over. Did I mention the free booze? lol

josh

[aarggh]

certs dont get you jobs..skills do..period

remember i said with all due respect

With all due respect, I would say that with the unskilled dweebs with their shiny new Business Management degrees that are usually the ones hiring and interviewing you, having certs most definately gets you past the first round, and quite often into the second or final round.

Having the skills is what lets you keep your job!

In my experience over the years, the trend in many professional jobs appears to be to move technical people away from management positions, and put highly certified and articulate morons in their place, who don't have the ability to determine the differences between candidates, apart from weighing their pile of certs! This goes for HR too!

So, certs will NOT hurt, and can only HELP! In a decent company with highly technical and personable interviewers you can get a chance to display your skills, in an interview done by HR and management staff, they won't be skilled enough to be in a position evaluate your skills, so they will rely solely on your presence and papers, and displays of prior work.

cheers,
Ian

[giz]

With all due respect, I would say that with the unskilled dweebs with their shiny new Business Management degrees that are usually the ones hiring and interviewing you, having certs most definately gets you past the first round, and quite often into the second or final round.

Having the skills is what lets you keep your job!

In my experience over the years, the trend in many professional jobs appears to be to move technical people away from management positions, and put highly certified and articulate morons in their place, who don't have the ability to determine the differences between candidates, apart from weighing their pile of certs! This goes for HR too!

So, certs will NOT hurt, and can only HELP! In a decent company with highly technical and personable interviewers you can get a chance to display your skills, in an interview done by HR and management staff, they won't be skilled enough to be in a position evaluate your skills, so they will rely solely on your presence and papers, and displays of prior work.

cheers,
Ian

I agree with this.

Add to that, if I was doing the hiring and was evaluating one candidate with 1 year experience/CSWE and another with 5 years/no certs, I would give the CSWE candidate the clear advantage (on paper). Proving you know the software in and out is worth more to me than simply the number of years you've sat in front of the computer. The CSWE tells me you are proficient in many areas of the software - I wouldn't give the same credit for the CSWP. I know the difference, but most hiring manager would not.

I speak to SolidWorks users on a daily basis that have used the software for 3, 5, even 10 years that still don't know most of what is available to them in SolidWorks. They know what they need to know for their job, and little else.

[Adam Baker]

I have no illusions as to whether the cert would be what would get me a job. But being able to set myself ahead of everyone else in a pile of resumes IMO is worth the time & money to earn the cert.

[BurrMan]

I would give the CSWE candidate the clear advantage (on paper). Proving you know the software in and out is worth more to me than simply the number of years you've sat in front of the computer. The CSWE tells me you are proficient in many areas of the software - I wouldn't give the same credit for the CSWP. I know the difference, but most hiring manager would not..

These are bad decisions made by companies.. I had a "professional student" asking me about computer setups.. He was truely a beginner.. a few short weeks later, he had his MCSE on a SERVER OS!!! That guy is certified in everything, and cant DO anything..

All the College students know the resources for this. They can CRAM it in 2 weeks and be certified.. Although, on day 15, they wake up after a good tie on and wonder why they are calling each other NURBS, and WTH is that anyway!

[giz]

These are bad decisions made by companies.. I had a "professional student" asking me about computer setups.. He was truely a beginner.. a few short weeks later, he had his MCSE on a SERVER OS!!! That guy is certified in everything, and cant DO anything..

All the College students know the resources for this. They can CRAM it in 2 weeks and be certified.. Although, on day 15, they wake up after a good tie on and wonder why they are calling each other NURBS, and WTH is that anyway!

By the same logic, they could "cram" and learn their job just as quick.

You are taking what is likely an exception, and giving certified and college-educated applicants a disadvantage against applicants who possess neither because of it. To me, that seems like the bad decision.

Like I said, as someone who conversates with dozens of SolidWorks users daily, the vast majority of users know little more than what the need to to do their job.

[aarggh]

By the same logic, they could "cram" and learn their job just as quick.

You are taking what is likely an exception, and giving certified and college-educated applicants a disadvantage against applicants who possess neither because of it. To me, that seems like the bad decision.

Like I said, as someone who conversates with dozens of SolidWorks users daily, the vast majority of users know little more than what the need to to do their job.

Sadly I don't think it's the exception at all, and I can only hope Solidworks keeps up their high standards and doesn't eventually go the way of MCP's/MCSE's as Microsoft has, which then ruins and dilutes the whole playing field and suddenly your competing against morons with good short term memory. I know the many years I have worked in IT I have worked with an absolutely astounding amount of people who may have had even many certifications, but not only had no understanding of the technologies required, but more importantly, were incapable of thinking outside the square to resolve any problems. It's always baffled me just how many people lack the most basic troubleshooting skills, or logic flow, but work in highly technical jobs.

We've got one guy here who despite all the claims about how good he is, is so utterly useless that on the Monday immediately following a 2 week VMware (virtual infrastructure server) training course, he couldn't actually create a new virtual when asked to by his manager, the work flow literally is.... "right click on cluster, select "Create New Virtual"! And his email sig proudly proclaims "VMware certified"! If there was a diploma in 24/7 Facebook use though he'd come up trumps.

My point though is that although it didn't take long working with him to realise that he was a deceitful liar that as it turned out had no technical abilities at all, but, and this is important, at the very short but crucial stage of him getting the job, he had me fooled, he had management fooled, and if he can fool technical people at the beginning, then what hope does HR staff have? And 2 years down the track he is still absolutely useless, to the point he doesn't even have access to much of what I look after. I kick myself everyday that the first time I took someone at face value in helping hiring them it turned out so bad.

These are the people you are up against almost everywhere you go it seems, and in the real world, certianly in IT anyway, having the certs is what gets your resume into the good pile of candidates, so you at least get a shot. Without it, you generally need good contacts, or you need access to the managers actually hiring, and need to hope they are technical enough so you can impress upon them the level of your skills and why they should consider yourself for the job. You literally need the opportunity to be able to sell yourself.

Lack of skills eventually catches, in smaller companies much faster than large, but as I stated in my earlier post, having the skills is what lets you keep your job!

cheers,
Ian

[Adam Baker]

And that right there is why I'm planning now on trying to get at least the Associate certification. I know that the cert is no guarantee on getting a job but w/ how the job market is right now, I need all the extra help I can get.

I'm also one of those that's not going to blow sunshine up someone's backside, to get a job. In the last year I've actually turned down several jobs b/c it wasn't what I was looking for and I didn't have quite the qualifications they were looking for. I just don't see the point in lying to get a job, its just not worth it, and only harmful to yourself in the end.

...having the certs is what gets your resume into the good pile of candidates, so you at least get a shot....

[aarggh]

And I very heartily wish you the best of success with that Adam, you've got a good attitude and are clearly motivated, and that's more than half the battle, so you're already a step up from a lot of others!

cheers,
Ian